Overcarbonated and "unique" flavor , uh... problem? **pics**

Hi fellow HBTers , I'm not sure where I went wrong on this one. The beer is HIGHLY carbonated and the flavor is hard to describe... astringent, sour, dry & bitter all rolled into one. This brew is not pleasant to drink. It smells okand the flavor on the front is ok, but the flavors on the back are as described above (plus a little woody). My first thought is the washed yeast, my first time cultivating. Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Recipe.... 5 gallons / 2 gallon boil =

Malt-
6.6 lbs Amber LME
1.0 lbs Lt DME

Steeping Grain- 30min @ 160
1.0 lbs Hugh Baird 55 Lovibond Brown Malt

Hops-
60min boil- 1oz cascade 5.9%
10min boil- .5oz yakima golding
no boil -.5 oz yakima golding

Yeast-
WL American Ale (washed yeast from previous batch)

Bottled with 3/4-1 cup corn sugar

O.G. -1.054
F.G. - 1.015



You can see how much foam is produced and I haven't even poured more than 3 oz of brew !

sorry pics are coming soon

It sounds like you may have a bacterial infection, possibly picked up during your yeast wash. How many bottles have you opened? I've had single bottles completely overflow when I opened them, but never a whole batch.

It's also possible that you bottled too soon. Maybe the primary fermentation wasn't complete.

Tom

**pics ** I HOPE ..... EDIT: NO PICS SORRY

rescue brew said:

**pics ** I HOPE ..... EDIT: NO PICS SORRY

Click to expand...

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It certainly does sound like a bacterial infection. More info would be required to pinpoint the source though. The yeast could be a possibility but there are many others.

Can you describe some of your procedures? Including the yeast washing/harvesting.

Ultimately the most likely cause is poor sanitation in some step. Improperly cleaned bottles is one of the first places to check. Inspect the bottles. Is there a ring around inside the neck where the liquid level is?

Figbash said:

It sounds like you may have a bacterial infection, possibly picked up during your yeast wash. How many bottles have you opened? I've had single bottles completely overflow when I opened them, but never a whole batch.

It's also possible that you bottled too soon. Maybe the primary fermentation wasn't complete.

Tom

Click to expand...

I've opened 12 over the past 4 months, hoping it would get better with age. Every bottle has been like this.

My fermentation was solid 1.015 after two weeks. NO movement for several days , so I bottled. I use the 1-2-3 method and check gravity.

I really hope this is not infected... that sounds BAD

JacobInIndy said:

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Click to expand...

THANK YOU Indy

Zymurgrafi said:

It certainly does sound like a bacterial infection. More info would be required to pinpoint the source though. The yeast could be a possibility but there are many others.

Can you describe some of your procedures? Including the yeast washing/harvesting.

Ultimately the most likely cause is poor sanitation in some step. Improperly cleaned bottles is one of the first places to check. Inspect the bottles. Is there a ring around inside the neck where the liquid level is?

Click to expand...

Yeast washing as described on this forum... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

The bottles look good , I have always sanitized bottles the same way (in the dishwasher) and every bottle is consistent to the next.

My brew equipment is really simple basic stuff ... brew kettle, auto siphon, glass carboy's , plastic bottling bucket.... I use bleach to sanitize..... Replace my hoses every couple batches....

rescue brew said:

I've opened 12 over the past 4 months, hoping it would get better with age. Every bottle has been like this.

My fermentation was solid 1.015 after two weeks. NO movement for several days , so I bottled. I use the 1-2-3 method and check gravity.

I really hope this is not infected... that sounds BAD

Click to expand...

If it wasn't for the off flavors you describe, I would say you simply over primed the bottles. However, since you say it has an astringent, sour and bitter flavor...I'm going with infected.

If you can describe your practices(sanitation steps, especially) it would help us to diagnose the source.

rescue brew said:

Yeast washing as described on this forum... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

The bottles look good , I have always sanitized bottles the same way (in the dishwasher) and every bottle is consistent to the next.

My brew equipment is really simple basic stuff ... brew kettle, auto siphon, glass carboy's , plastic bottling bucket.... I use bleach to sanitize..... Replace my hoses every couple batches....

Click to expand...

I know there are many on this board who swear by bleach for sanitizing, but you have to rinse it. I could be wrong, but I'm assuming you don't boil the water you rinse with. The bacteria in your tap water could be a problem.

Switch to star-san.

I just don't trust tap water being the final thing to touch my equipment before it touches my beer.

JacobInIndy said:

I know there are many on this board who swear by bleach for sanitizing, but you have to rinse it. I could be wrong, but I'm assuming you don't boil the water you rinse with. The bacteria in your tap water could be a problem.

Switch to star-san.

I just don't trust tap water being the final thing to touch my equipment before it touches my beer.

Click to expand...

I do not boil my rinse water. I use tap water in every step of the process. So, after my partial boil, I top off with water right out of the tap.

I'm brewing this weekend, so I will pick up some star-san tomorrow. I just read up on star san and it sound so much easier to use than my bleach method. I usually sanitize a clean glass carboy for primary and also make 5 gallons of sanitizer for equipment (hoses, funnel, etc). I guess grabbing some bottled water will eliminate a possible source of infection as well.

Any chance this sounds like an under pitched batch or a fermentation that wasn't done when I bottled?

I used to use bleach as well. I had a bout of infected brews. I have become very anal about cleaning and sanitizing afterwards.

Yes, using unboiled rinse water could potentially lead to infection. Also, cleaning bottles in a dishwasher is NOT an infallible method. After time if there are deposits of debris the dishwasher will not remove them. Even if they seem clean they may have deposits.

I no longer bottle regularly but when I did and the occasional time that I do I became SUPER anal! I soak in oxyclean or PBW then scrub with a brush, then rinse, then sanitize with starsan. A lot of work yes. Overkill? Maybe, but it is worth it to me for the assurance of no infections.

A way of spreading out the work is to soak in oxyclean or pbw, scrub, rinse, and dry and then cover each bottle with a piece of aluminum foil when dry. Then sanitize at bottling time. Did I mention I was anal about it?

Wait a minute. Are you saying that this has been in bottles for four months? If so, an infection will usually have blown the bottles by now.

I have a batch right now, down in a dark corner of my basement that is undrinkable because I scorched the extract in the kettle. It tastes a lot like you describe. A lot. Even down to it being ok in smell and on the very first taste. Then the aftertaste is acrid and nasty.

On the other hand that foam is troubling. Could be overpriming, which is my guess, or bacterial.

dontman said:

Wait a minute. Are you saying that this has been in bottles for four months? If so, an infection will usually have blown the bottles by now.

I have a batch right now, down in a dark corner of my basement that is undrinkable because I scorched the extract in the kettle. It tastes a lot like you describe. A lot. Even down to it being ok in smell and on the very first taste. Then the aftertaste is acrid and nasty.

On the other hand that foam is troubling. Could be overpriming, which is my guess, or bacterial.

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Yes, it has been in the bottle for four months... I keep hoping it gets better, but it's not. lol. I'm not sure what scorching would look like if I did it.

Maybe this is a little off-topic, but I always do a small satellite fermentation in a beer bottle next to my main fermentation. I use a clean but not sanitized beer bottle. This not only allows me to take gravity readings etc without disturbing the fermenter, but almost always develops at least a mild infection. This is useful; I can taste this 'known' infected beer and then make a comparison to the main beer. I can usually use this info to deduce what, if any, present off-flavors are due to infection. It also keeps me up to speed on what infected beer tastes like.

With that said, the word "sour" concerns me. From my experience, few beers will be sour without some kind of infection.

rescue brew said:

Yes, it has been in the bottle for four months... I keep hoping it gets better, but it's not. lol. I'm not sure what scorching would look like if I did it.

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The thing about scorching extract is that it can clean up after itself. What happens is that when you pour the LME into the kettle it drfts immediately to the bottom of the kettle and can scorch if the pot is still on the heat. Then when you stir the pot the scorch gets scraped up and absorbed into solution carrying with it that nasty carbonization.

The batch that I scorched has been in bottle like six months and I also keep hoping. The sad thing is it is a beautiful crystal clear perfectly carbed beer that looks really enticing each time I pour one and then I taste . . .

Thanks for the input everyone.

BTW .... picked up PBW and Star San for last nights brew session and I love how easy it is to use. I will never turn back.

Thanks Again

To give you an idea of what happened in the bottles, pour your beer and degas it by stirring vigorously and let it warm up to 60 degrees, then take a gravity reading on the flat beer. You said you bottled at 1015 so if it's lower than that you definitely picked up a bacterial infection. The second brew I ever did, a red ale kit, had this problem - the gravity reading came back at 1001 - it also was way overcarbonated, super dry, and astringent; I finally had to dump it after 4 months to make room for a drinkable batch.

I'm a 9 extract batch noobie so take this with a grain of salt.

I've only seen the characteristics you describe in one bottle of a my stout. The foam had a kind of hyper expansion quality--it jumped right out of the glass and kept on going. One taste of the stuff was enough to convince me it was buggy. The flavor wasn't just a little off. It was downright effing awful.

CGengo said:

To give you an idea of what happened in the bottles, pour your beer and degas it by stirring vigorously and let it warm up to 60 degrees, then take a gravity reading on the flat beer. You said you bottled at 1015 so if it's lower than that you definitely picked up a bacterial infection. The second brew I ever did, a red ale kit, had this problem - the gravity reading came back at 1001 - it also was way overcarbonated, super dry, and astringent; I finally had to dump it after 4 months to make room for a drinkable batch.

Click to expand...

Nice ! I will do this today ... keep you posted .

Thanks

CGengo said:

To give you an idea of what happened in the bottles, pour your beer and degas it by stirring vigorously and let it warm up to 60 degrees, then take a gravity reading on the flat beer. You said you bottled at 1015 so if it's lower than that you definitely picked up a bacterial infection. The second brew I ever did, a red ale kit, had this problem - the gravity reading came back at 1001 - it also was way overcarbonated, super dry, and astringent; I finally had to dump it after 4 months to make room for a drinkable batch.

Click to expand...

Sure enough, the SG dropped to 1.010... and now upon further inspection of the room temperature bottles I have been saving, I see a film inside the bottles.

DAMN my first bad batch.

rescue brew said:

Sure enough, the SG dropped to 1.010... and now upon further inspection of the room temperature bottles I have been saving, I see a film inside the bottles.

DAMN my first bad batch.

Click to expand...

Film inside the bottle can also mean you bottled too soon and simply had some bottle fermentation take place. This would also explain the over carbonation issue.

Rarely does a beer smell fine and taste fine up front if there is a severe infection.

Infections are harder to come by than you might think. Strong carbonic (from over carbonation) bite can impart some very harsh flavors.

My (optimistic) guess is that you overcooked your extract. Bottled too soon and used too much priming sugar.

Mind your sanitation, but also try paying careful attention to your cooking methods. Give your beer at least 2 weeks in a primary before racking off of the yeast. Go with ¾ cup of priming sugar and no more.

BierMuncher said:

Film inside the bottle can also mean you bottled too soon and simply had some bottle fermentation take place. This would also explain the over carbonation issue.

Rarely does a beer smell fine and taste fine up front if there is a severe infection.

Infections are harder to come by than you might think. Strong carbonic (from over carbonation) bite can impart some very harsh flavors.

My (optimistic) guess is that you overcooked your extract. Bottled too soon and used too much priming sugar.

Mind your sanitation, but also try paying careful attention to your cooking methods. Give your beer at least 2 weeks in a primary before racking off of the yeast. Go with ¾ cup of priming sugar and no more.

Click to expand...

So , is there any hope for this batch? I have no idea what to do with it besides *gasp* dumping it.

Since I used washed yeast, is there any chance it was underpitched? Would underpitching result in an incomplete fermentation?

As for not scorching the extract... I'm thinking of adding the extract and getting it diluted into the water after steeping / before the boil begins. Are there any potential problems with doing it this way?

rescue brew said:

So , is there any hope for this batch? I have no idea what to do with it besides *gasp* dumping it.

Click to expand...

I'm still leaning towards a strongly over carbonated batch. Carbonic bite can cause a bitter, astringent characteristic.

Try taking 4 bottles at room temp, pop them open and lay some plastic wrap loosely over the tops.
Let the beers sit for 2 hours, cap one and chill, two more hours, cap another and chill..etc.

So you now have four beers that have sat uncapped for 2, 4, 6 and 8 hours.

Give them 24 hours in the fridge and taste test. This degassing may help and whichever beer tastes the best will give you an idea of how long to repeat this procedure for all of your beers.

BierMuncher said:

I'm still leaning towards a strongly over carbonated batch. Carbonic bite can cause a bitter, astringent characteristic.

Try taking 4 bottles at room temp, pop them open and lay some plastic wrap loosely over the tops.
Let the beers sit for 2 hours, cap one and chill, two more hours, cap another and chill..etc.

So you now have four beers that have sat uncapped for 2, 4, 6 and 8 hours.

Give them 24 hours in the fridge and taste test. This degassing may help and whichever beer tastes the best will give you an idea of how long to repeat this procedure for all of your beers.

Click to expand...

VERY NICE , I will give it a try. Thanks!