Bad bad notty!

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October 6, 2010

Over the last few weeks we have received several inquiries from homebrewers regarding Nottingham lot #1080961099V exp. date 12/2011 stating that they were experiencing slow start of fermentation and/or poor fermentation performance. Internal tests conducted on a cross-section of sachets of this batch over several weeks have indicated normal performance, but given the widespread geographical nature of the comments being received, we feel it is best to ask retailers and distributors to return any inventory of this specific batch rather than risk brewers having a negative experience with our products.

If you have Nottingham batch #1080961099V exp. date 12/2011 still in your inventory, please return it for exchange.

Please return the yeast to:
Lallemand Inc.
Attn: Marie Coppet
6100 Royalmount
Montreal, QC, Canada
H4P 2R2

Any inquiries about return logistics can be addressed to [email protected].

Replacement inventory of Nottingham may be several weeks away as we are transferring our packaging operations to another location, requiring down-time for set-up of packaging equipment and infrastructure. We have also invested in a new sachet packaging line which we anticipate commissioning early next year. This is part of our commitment to ongoing product improvement and ensuring brewers have a great experience with our yeast. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and we hope you will bear with us as we work to address this issue in the coming weeks. Your cooperation and support of Danstar products are greatly appreciated.




Keith Lemcke
Marketing Manager
 
blub blub blub blub blah blah blah

keep the rumors in the girls locker room (or post proof)
 
I was planning on washing what I have going now anyhow. Now it turns out if I don't, I won't have any Notty for a while.....
 
I just dumped a batch before I saw this posting.

I made a 10 gallon batch of my favorite IPA, on 09/09. I pitched S05 in one fermenter, notty (this lot #) in the other.

I went to keg it last week, and the S05 batch was awesome. The notty, not so much. It was phenolic and cloudy. I kegged the one and went back this morning to check on the other. It's bad. It's terribly phenolic, although it was fermented at 62 degrees. It's cleared quite a bit, and not sour like lacto, but it's not drinkable. It just got poured out about 15 minutes ago.

I came in and saw this post, and checked the lot# (I had the yeast package taped to the fermenter lid that I used for both fermenters) and sure enough, I used that "bad" lot number. The other two packages of notty I have in the fridge are the same lot #, too.

I'm really frustrated because I've been one of the biggest supporters of nottingham yeast and sort of pooh-poohed the complaints as a one-time thing. Not any more.
 
Lallemand Inc.
Attn: Marie Coppet
6100 Royalmount
Montreal, QC, Canada
H4P 2R2

Is this even the right mailing address for Dan Star? I looked online and can find nothing with the above address listed. Just for fun I cut and forwarded this to the support @ Dan Star from the Dan Star site. We shall see....
 
It was phenolic and cloudy. I kegged the one and went back this morning to check on the other. It's bad. It's terribly phenolic, although it was fermented at 62 degrees. It's cleared quite a bit, and not sour like lacto, but it's not drinkable.

I'm really frustrated because I've been one of the biggest supporters of nottingham yeast and sort of pooh-poohed the complaints as a one-time thing. Not any more.

Dude, I hear ya! That's the same thing that happened to me! I ended up with two undrinkable batches of beer with that lot # and both fermented at 60ºF! I don't like that it's happened again, I'm done with Notty. I really did like it for a long time but I do not have the confidence that it will be a clean fermentation... bummer dudes![\2¢]
 
I brewed an Imperial Stout 3 weeks ago with this batch of Nottingham yeast. It was slow to start fermenting (I rehydrated and fermented at 64F) but there were no off flavors. My imperial stout tasted young but not phenolic.

I got in touch with the HBS that sold me the Nottingham and they told me that they were not aware of any problems with this batch number. The HBS told me that 64F was at the lower end of an ale yeast to properly ferment. /shrug
 
I brewed an Imperial Stout 3 weeks ago with this batch of Nottingham yeast. It was slow to start fermenting (I rehydrated and fermented at 64F) but there were no off flavors. My imperial stout tasted young but not phenolic.

I got in touch with the HBS that sold me the Nottingham and they told me that they were not aware of any problems with this batch number. The HBS told me that 64F was at the lower end of an ale yeast to properly ferment. /shrug

Nah, even Lallemand states that nottingham's ideal fermentation temperature range is 57-70 degrees. I've fermented lager-like ales at 60 degrees with this yeast before. But I'm done with it now.
 
Nah, even Lallemand states that nottingham's ideal fermentation temperature range is 57-70 degrees. I've fermented lager-like ales at 60 degrees with this yeast before. But I'm done with it now.

I'm with you, Yooper. I've personally had good experiences with Notty, but given all the problems recently I think I'm going to switch to S05 for my go-to dry yeast.
 
Nah, even Lallemand states that nottingham's ideal fermentation temperature range is 57-70 degrees. I've fermented lager-like ales at 60 degrees with this yeast before. But I'm done with it now.

I'm more inclined to trust someone with 25K+ posts and years of brewing experience who doesn't want to sell me something. I've got 2 packets of this batch in my frig. Looks like i'll be tossing them.
 
I've got two packs of this as well, what a joke. It'll probably cost me more than $3 to ship them to their office than it will be to replace them.
 
I'm more inclined to trust someone with 25K+ posts and years of brewing experience who doesn't want to sell me something. I've got 2 packets of this batch in my frig. Looks like i'll be tossing them.

DON'T toss them! Contact the store you got them from. I've already contacted Brewmaster's Warehouse, and he'll replace them when he gets his new shipment in (and returns all of the "bad" stuff). I only have two left, and they aren't expensive, but it's my feeling that Lallemand should replace all of the bad packages. If you just toss them, they really don't know how many of us are upset.
 
Wow Yopper,
The day you complain they issue a recall. They must have been waiting for a bigwig to confirm.
 
Can individuals return to the the manufacturer, or just retailers? I have four sachets of the bad lot that I bought from 2 different retailers. I think I'm gonna brew a bad batch with it, force myself to drink it, and return it "post-consumption". And they needn't feel obligated to return "additional packets" for my trouble.
 
Wow Yopper,
The day you complain they issue a recall. They must have been waiting for a bigwig to confirm.

LOL! That's funny.

The only good thing about this is that I was going to use some Notty today, as I brewed this afternoon. But I grabbed out the S05 since I'm making an APA. I would have been really irritated had I used nottingham (with the recalled numbers) in it! I pitched the S05, then dumped the IPA with the bad notty package still taped to the top of the fermenter, then saw these posts!

Brewmaster's Warehouse wrote back right away with both Lallemand's address and his own, and told me to send it to either place. Since Lallemand is in Canada, it's cheaper to send back to Brewmaster's Warehouse, and he was ok with it. It's only two packages (and one dumped batch) but I'm glad I didn't pitch one of those packages in todays brew!
 
Nah, even Lallemand states that nottingham's ideal fermentation temperature range is 57-70 degrees. I've fermented lager-like ales at 60 degrees with this yeast before. But I'm done with it now.

Not on you at all, Lorena.

I have watched and shook my head, watched and shook my head. I have seen certain vendors here 'take the devils advocate' side by trying to silence home brewer's publicly question the quality and state their experience with this yeast, even when there have been previous ACKNOWLEDGED issues with the yeast, so when they look dubious they have taught squelching controversy to preserve their bottom line.

I have advocated using S-05 or at least S-04 without trying to weigh in amidst the guys who slash and burn and flame those that reported problems, by insinuating it was all them, their practices or their luck, just because they themselves had not experienced it.

Had a larger majority of home brewers taken due caution and boycotted when controversy arose, I suspect that these issues woulda, coulda, shoulda been taken care of far quicker and with far less damage to the other home brewer's pocket books. There was ample cause for concern and leeriness from way back.

Shame on those that kicked rather than listened. Shame on those that counseled for quiet and chastised to not allow public experience statements.

Emotion does not make good beer. Due diligence and careful choices do.
 
I have an issue,

I have four more packs of this lot. I've had two batches go bad from AustinHBS, I bought the last four packs of this lot# on a road trip through Ohio.
My last brew with this purchase was the Fat Squirrel clone. I just tasted a sample of the brew and I can understand why it received an award. In other words, the pitch was good.

Should I send back the remaining packs, or should I brew with what has worked so far.

My gut tells me I shouldn't risk a four hour brew day, but the last pack worked. What should I do?:confused:
 
I have an issue,

I have four more packs of this lot. I've had two batches go bad from AustinHBS, I bought the last four packs of this lot# on a road trip through Ohio.
My last brew with this purchase was the Fat Squirrel clone. I just tasted a sample of the brew and I can understand why it received an award. In other words, the pitch was good.

Should I send back the remaining packs, or should I brew with what has worked so far.

My gut tells me I shouldn't risk a four hour brew day, but the last pack worked. What should I do?:confused:

Boil water with a little sugar and let it cool to the high end of the rehydrate range and through the yeast in. If it looks normal after an hour, use it, otherwise have a backup.
 
Great. I've got 12 gallons of Graf pitched with this lot# of Notty; and I've got another packet in the fridge. This is the 2nd recall for Nottingham in what, a year? 6 months? I'll return my remaining packet to the LHBS & start using another brand of yeast. I guess I'll just have to wait & see how my Graf turns out. (crosses fingers) :(
 
Yeah I used this notty as well recently and because of being busy I was unable to purchase a new pack of yeast to pitch (should've had a spare) and it actually finally just started showing signs of fermentation, (krausen and SG changes). It took upwards of 100 hours to start. I just hope it doesn't have any hint of infection, especially since I opened the bucket and checked the gravity on day 3 and there had still been nothing.
 
I said it before, but it's worth saying again. Notty can suck it! I'll never EVER use it again, even if they did offer to reimburse me for the 15 gallons of beer it ruined.
 
This is the email I received from Danstar support when questioning the original poster. (No I am not sorry for doubting, it is the internet after all & good on you OP for helping to spread the word! :mug:)...

Yes this is true, but the information was released to our distributors and retailer just yesterday so we need it to "get to the marketplace" via retailers to homebrewers. I will be sending information about this to homebrewing forums in the coming days to allow a few days for retailers to get notification first as we want them to be ready for any consumer requests to return the sachets from this batch. As stated below, we feel there is concern among homebrewers regarding this batch so we would like to remove it from the market as we investigate the nature of any problem.

Thanks very much for contacting us. Your support is genuinely appreciated.

Keith Lemcke
Danstar & Lalvin yeast
 
Boil water with a little sugar and let it cool to the high end of the rehydrate range and through the yeast in. If it looks normal after an hour, use it, otherwise have a backup.

Just my $.02 but I wouldn't use those remaining sachets. If your beer turns out to be a "clove/phenol bomb" like Yooper's did you'll not likely be a happy camper! I've got a sachet from this lot and will be returning it to my LHBS the next time I'm there to pick up some ingredients.

FWIW - I've got a batch of CTZ IPA going with Notty right now (different lot #) and it tastes fine, I'll be washing the yeast and saving it since I know it's good.
 
Just my $.02 but I wouldn't use those remaining sachets. If your beer turns out to be a "clove/phenol bomb" like Yooper's did you'll not likely be a happy camper! I've got a sachet from this lot and will be returning it to my LHBS the next time I'm there to pick up some ingredients.

FWIW - I've got a batch of CTZ IPA going with Notty right now (different lot #) and it tastes fine, I'll be washing the yeast and saving it since I know it's good.

I agree. I spent a fortune (it was an IPA) on ingredients. Now, if it was only a 5 gallon batch, I could blame it on me. Like fermentation temperatures, bacterial contamination, etc. But it was a 10 gallon batch- and only 5 with Nottingham. It still could be something I did, I suppose- like a bacterial contamination in the fermenter.

However, I brewed the batch as one ten gallon batch, sanitized two fermenters (exactly the same pails, exactly the same age) but otherwise split the batch evenly. Both started fermented within a day- pitched at 64 degrees initally, but it dropped to 62 degrees within 24 hours. The S05 batch tastes awesome, and I'm actually having a glass now. The notty batch was poured on the grass this afternoon, after giving it a bit more time in case that was the issue. Terribly phenolic.

Now, phenols to me scream "bacterial contamination". I don't know the reason for the recall, but since I had fermentation start up right away, I didn't worry too much about it. Now, I'm wondering about bacterial counts in the yeast. Is that an issue at all? I wonder.
 
Ok so I pitched the "bad" lot in question 47hrs ago. No bubbling of my airlock. I tested the satelite bottle and still at OG. I was thinking about repitching with Notty 108472V 07 2012 that I have in fridge. Any special techniques I need to know before i try this. Never had to do this before.
 
Man i am glad my wasted batch on this yeast was probably the cheapest ive ever brewed at just under 15bucks (mild ale) and not an expensive IPA or anything like that. Feel bad for you guys who really got screwed over.
 
Nothing special needs to be done, just sprinkle it in! If you're "one of those people" you can rehydrate the yeast before pitching. ;)
 
I agree. I spent a fortune (it was an IPA) on ingredients. Now, if it was only a 5 gallon batch, I could blame it on me. Like fermentation temperatures, bacterial contamination, etc. But it was a 10 gallon batch- and only 5 with Nottingham. It still could be something I did, I suppose- like a bacterial contamination in the fermenter.

However, I brewed the batch as one ten gallon batch, sanitized two fermenters (exactly the same pails, exactly the same age) but otherwise split the batch evenly. Both started fermented within a day- pitched at 64 degrees initally, but it dropped to 62 degrees within 24 hours. The S05 batch tastes awesome, and I'm actually having a glass now. The notty batch was poured on the grass this afternoon, after giving it a bit more time in case that was the issue. Terribly phenolic.

Now, phenols to me scream "bacterial contamination". I don't know the reason for the recall, but since I had fermentation start up right away, I didn't worry too much about it. Now, I'm wondering about bacterial counts in the yeast. Is that an issue at all? I wonder.

After reading your first post, I put some Sesame Street on for my Daughter and went downstairs to take another sample of my CTZ IPA from my fermenter, and after I tasted it I started to breathe again. Funny thing is that I had two packets of Notty in my fridge when I made this batch and contemplated using the one with the bad lot # because it wasn't expired like the one I actually pitched! I remember mulling over in my head which packet I should pitch, it took me a good 15 minutes before I pitched the expired one.
 
OneTooth,
I would rehydrate the yeast for re-pitching so that they don't undergo osmotic shock. Aeration is ok if the original gravity hasn't changed. If it has, definitely don't re-aerate or the beer might taste stale when it's done.
 
OneTooth,
I would rehydrate the yeast for re-pitching so that they don't undergo osmotic shock. Aeration is ok if the original gravity hasn't changed. If it has, definitely don't re-aerate or the beer might taste stale when it's done.

forgot to ask... what temp should I repitch at?
thanks for response.
 
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