tell me why i shouldn't do this

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bcryan

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so i'm thinking about starting my own Ubrew business. no wine. just beer. made only from all grain beer. people have to come in and add the yeast and then come in to bottle. not gonna sell any home brew supplies. just great beer. you think people will come? was thinking of charging a buck a beer. in canada that is a sweet deal for beer. would you go?
 
I had lengthy discussions about the AG ubrew route with my buddy who owns a homebrew shop. Evidently that's how the Ubrew bid is done in Japan. I think it's a great idea. But do you think the trade is going to be there? Will folks really want to stand around for 5-6 hours to brew when most ubrews are pretty quick. If people wanted to do it the "harder" way, wouldn't they be homewbrewers already?

Why wouldn't you also want to cater to the homebrew trade and sell supplies? Seems to me there's a derth of lhbs in Canada.
 
No. I am a homebrewer.

Now, if your business plan included use of equipment to mash and boil that might appeal to people. Especially if you do the clean up.

More like a "rent a rig and brewspace place" than a "pitch a pack & bottle a batch".
 
They have a few places like this in the US, however I am not well versed in how they work.

Charging X per beer sounds great to me...I will have an IPA with a OG 1.100 and an IBU of 100+ with Citra/Amirillo and Simcoe hops, then dry hopped with the same! :D
 
More like a "rent a rig and brewspace place" than a "pitch a pack & bottle a batch".

This is what we were talking about for my buddy. Larger capacity fermenters, maybe sabco systems, maybe doing 20 gallon batches split between 4 brewers. Indoor facility for year round brewing in comfort. Bottling or canning line. Things that most homebrewers won't have.
 
so i'm thinking about starting my own Ubrew business. no wine. just beer. made only from all grain beer. people have to come in and add the yeast and then come in to bottle. not gonna sell any home brew supplies. just great beer. you think people will come? was thinking of charging a buck a beer. in canada that is a sweet deal for beer. would you go?

Hi OP. Are you saying that the customers would do the mashing or you would, and they would just 'come in and add the yeast'?

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in either, but I'm not your market, either. Cheers!
 
i would do mashing, boiling, etc. they would place there order, i would make it, then they come in to add yeast then come in to bottle several weeks later. the law in british columbia says they have to add yeast and bottle.

everytown in BC has a ubrew place. alot of people go there to make wine. only a fraction make beer. and even less are doing all grain.

in british columbia a 12 pack of average quality beer is $25. people might be looking for a deal. that was one of my motivations of starting to make my own
 
i would do mashing, boiling, etc. they would place there order, i would make it, then they come in to add yeast then come in to bottle several weeks later. the law in british columbia says they have to add yeast and bottle.

everytown in BC has a ubrew place. alot of people go there to make wine. only a fraction make beer. and even less are doing all grain.

in british columbia a 12 pack of average quality beer is $25. people might be looking for a deal. that was one of my motivations of starting to make my own

You might want to look into the laws...I don't know but I think maybe the customer in a ubrew might have to have a little more of a hand in the brewing process than just pitching the yeast, they might have to actually physically handle the ingredients as well. I don't know.

Also why is it that ubrew beer places are so much more expensive, like a couple hundred for 2 cases of beer...It can't all be markup can it?

I'm looking at the price for vancouver's west coast u brew. And they're approximately, like 150 for 2 cases of beer.

I think a buck a beer is a great idea, but is it feasible to run a business where you make 25 or 50 bucks for 6 hours of YOUR time, plus equipment and utilities and rent and such?
 
i would do mashing, boiling, etc. they would place there order, i would make it, then they come in to add yeast then come in to bottle several weeks later. the law in british columbia says they have to add yeast and bottle.

everytown in BC has a ubrew place. alot of people go there to make wine. only a fraction make beer. and even less are doing all grain.

in british columbia a 12 pack of average quality beer is $25. people might be looking for a deal. that was one of my motivations of starting to make my own

This would not interest me at all. Pitching and bottling are the least glamourous steps in brewing following clean up.
 
This would not interest me at all. Pitching and bottling are the least glamourous steps in brewing following clean up.

I don't think we're the intended audience for this.

BUT if he had a really good bottling/canning line, and the price were cheap enough, I would consider coming in with my fermenters to bottle.
 
I don't think we're the intended audience for this.

BUT if he had a really good bottling/canning line, and the price were cheap enough, I would consider coming in with my fermenters to bottle.

Troo. But he asked my thoughts.

Not knowing the price per case of beer in Canada I just don't see the appeal unless it is just a cheaper way to buy beer. The "UBrew" connotation is completely removed and the whole thing becomes more of a "pitch and pack" operation.
 
The prices at vancouver's west coast u brew is for 48L(12.6gal), so your already looking at $1 a beer.
 
revvy youre right when you say that we're not the intenden audience. i wouldn't go either cause i make my own. but theres alot of lazy people out there that don't make there own.
 
OP - you asked for reasons not to do it. They all boil down to one real question - you either can or can not make a profit.

This is where market research comes in. Why do most other ubrews do wine over beer? is it because beer drinkers in CA are lazy and don't want to work making their beer? or because the ubrews don't offer enough to do (ie an AG brewer who doesn't have space for gear, but wants to AG).

for your model, one way to improve your profits would be to have people schedule ahead, and then mass mash before they come in. Thus if you have appointments for 6 guys to make 30 gallons of ipa, you mash out 30 gallons and then split the batch before boil. With industrial gear, you can easily take advantage of effiecenies like that - doing bulk boils etc. But still I'm not sure you can make $$ and that would by why I say this ins't a good idea. Again, market research is your friend here.

As to I think Revvy's comment about bottling/canning. I don't know how much the bottler is, but the canner is about 15K (US) for a simple model, and cans I think are about $.25/can for a 12 pallet (semi size) load of them. I looked into this because I was currious. At $.25/can for the can, the cost is going up there.

The ubrew type place near in Alexanria charges for the beer and the bottles. Once you have their bottles (designed for their filling device) then you can bring the bottles back for future trips and just pay for the brew.
 
This would not interest me at all. Pitching and bottling are the least glamourous steps in brewing following clean up.

I just have this wonderful picture in my mind, the ubrew guy carefully handing a jar of yeast to the customer, who slowly pours it into the fermenter, and then the ubrew guy shakes the customers hand and heartily congratulates him on a job well done!
 
for your model, one way to improve your profits would be to have people schedule ahead, and then mass mash before they come in. Thus if you have appointments for 6 guys to make 30 gallons of ipa, you mash out 30 gallons and then split the batch before boil. With industrial gear, you can easily take advantage of effiecenies like that - doing bulk boils etc. But still I'm not sure you can make $$ and that would by why I say this ins't a good idea. Again, market research is your friend here.

THIS is what my buddy and I were talking about. And with social networking and twitter, it's very doable. You just decide that on x day it's going to be your ipa and have folks stake their claim to part of the batch, and come in on brewday.
 
It sounds like the profit to work ratio is not worth it IMO. I think you need to diversify. As mentioned you could charge to use your equipment. You could have a class on brewing where they take part in the whole process. You can sell brewing equipment.

Obviously if you teach someone the process they will most likely buy from you and then could still take advantage of your bottling line, or "rent space" in your lagering cooler. Or have such awesome equipment that they want to pay to use yours without having to invest in the setup themselves.

You could also charge more if you are doing all the work minus the pitching and bottling, but charge a little less per bottle if they essentially do it all, but you are there for support. This would allow you to do other things while money is being made.

Just a few ideas.
 
BrewBakers in Huntington Beach does this and is pretty successful. I actually go in there to buy hops, yeast and specialty grains if i dont want to drive to my lhbs.
 
BrewBakers in Huntington Beach does this and is pretty successful. I actually go in there to buy hops, yeast and specialty grains if i dont want to drive to my lhbs.

That's why I asked why he didn't also want to sell to homebrewers. That way he's hitting two markets, the ubrew crowd, and the homebrewers. Depending on his area (market research) he might do better catering to the homebrewer as an LHBS than the ubrewers.
 
Revamp the whole system and do this:

Instead of brewing 10 or 20 gallons at a time, get a 7-bbl system, and get your number of customers lined up for the next batch. At pitching time, you will need to split up the pitch between the the max number of gallons of beer per year that a homebrewer can make so that if you have a request for say 200 gallons and that the max per year a homebrewer can do is 200 gallons, you only need one customer to pitch the yeast. Of course at that point, he's done for the number of pitches that he can do for the year. This would have to be calculated/accounted for properly.

Then the next time, another customer can pitch the yeast but the same (previous) pitching customers can still chip in and buy some, they're just not pitching the yeast anymore. They'd be limited to the number of gallons purchased per year.

In effect, you'd be allowing a customer to pitch yeast for up to 200 gallons max, and to purchase a max of 200-gallons throughout the year. (this assumes a max per yer of 200 gallons per person).

If your batch size is bigger than 200-gallons, say 275, you'd need 2 yeast pitchers to keep it legal.

This larger batch size would greatly cut down on the number of batches to be done and especially on the number of hours spent brewing overall. Of course you'd need a bottling line.

If you're savvy and technology oriented, you send out "next batch: hefeweizen", and get your orders in, tally them one week before the brew session, and place your grain/hops/yeast order from your supplier(s).

You're essentially removing the legality of having a brewing/liquor license by having the customers pitch the yeast.

I have no idea if it'd fly, but it's a thought.

M_C
 
Are you kidding...if you have a real nice AG system 20g+ and I had the extra money, I would love to come in and use the system to brew. I'm an AG brewer, but I think a lot of guys/gals would love to brew on a system that is higher volume and perhaps more fluid. I think you could also have different packages available for different levels of involvment. There may be people who want to just "pitch and pack," but I think a lot of people would enjoy coming in at the end of sparge and monitor their own boil, adding their own hops, etc. If you had a group, they could split their batch 4-5 ways. If preboil, they could add different hops to each boil. Post boil, they could add different yeast. This way they could customize their brew and compare with each other.

Profit margins not withstanding, I think this could be a very cool venture.
 
Are you kidding...if you have a real nice AG system 20g+ and I had the extra money, I would love to come in and use the system to brew. I'm an AG brewer, but I think a lot of guys/gals would love to brew on a system that is higher volume and perhaps more fluid. I think you could also have different packages available for different levels of involvment. There may be people who want to just "pitch and pack," but I think a lot of people would enjoy coming in at the end of sparge and monitor their own boil, adding their own hops, etc. If you had a group, they could split their batch 4-5 ways. If preboil, they could add different hops to each boil. Post boil, they could add different yeast. This way they could customize their brew and compare with each other.

Profit margins not withstanding, I think this could be a very cool venture.

Well the "extra hands in it" is a nice touch for you and homebrewers, but the majority of non-brewers wouldn't want anything to do with it, and THAT IS your target market. Not the homebrewers like you and I.

In fact, the old homebrew shop where I used to buy some of my supplies has converted to *exclusively* making wine for their customers (customer comes in and puts the yeast in). They have a whole bunch of racks with nothing but fermenters. It's almost a not touch affair.

M_C
 
I have been thinking a lot about this and I think there would be a market for work space rental and storage. See in California the place in Sac only can allow you to brew their beer and you have to buy it from them- but in California, whether or not they are adding the yeast or not, it isn't considered home brewing, so you would have to become a producer (hence why their beer is priced by the case).

That being said, I can see if you are doing anything that needs to be barreled or aged for any amount of time, storage and space becomes an issue... But looking at the legal code, it would be possible to offer a home brewer or vintner space to make, store, and age their product without any special tax stamps or regulations and in time you could become a home brew store or a supply store or offer classes as a way to additional revenue.

So do you think there is a market for a workspace and barreling, bottling, and labeling "club" or site where you would essentially lease my space in a controlled warehouse, rent barrels (or purchase) and then store the aging beer and wine in my facility? Now since it is home brew I don't think I can legally stir your mash or do anything but look over your shoulder and give tips or sell and rent facility without breaking the law. So, by this logic, you would still be the brewer, but with your product in a secure location where you could conceivable make a heck of a lot more and you can store for longer periods because you don't need to free up items to brew more. I can also see where homes with older children there might be hesitation to home brew for obvious reasons, but stored off site, there is little risk of little Johnny attacking your aging ale.

Thoughts?
 
Personally I am kind of not a real social guy so I would rather brew at home myself or with close friends. But I have heard of a place nearby that does wine and I have spoken to people who have done that. I wonder if they are still in business?
 
Jgln, I would love to know if that place is still near by you... What city state are you in? I do know that it's not for everybody, but I can only do 6 talons all the way through to bottling in my house and waiting 6 months for feedback and only getting a few gallons a year isn't exciting to me- so I am wondering how many people are in the same boat? Here in San Jose, it will cost me a bundle to make my garage suitable for brewing, but then I have to figure out where to put my motorcycle.... In the house it makes a mess and with all of the people in the house! That's not effective either...so do you see my dilemma? So if I could drive a business others can help finance my passion!
 
Jgln, I would love to know if that place is still near by you... What city state are you in? I do know that it's not for everybody, but I can only do 6 talons all the way through to bottling in my house and waiting 6 months for feedback and only getting a few gallons a year isn't exciting to me- so I am wondering how many people are in the same boat? Here in San Jose, it will cost me a bundle to make my garage suitable for brewing, but then I have to figure out where to put my motorcycle.... In the house it makes a mess and with all of the people in the house! That's not effective either...so do you see my dilemma? So if I could drive a business others can help finance my passion!

Just do an internet search "brew your own beer in CA" and I bet you some up with plenty as I did in NJ. Seems the wine making more popular but the place that does the beer appears to be doing well enough to be in business for some time.

Looks like they rent warehouses or part of them to do this including refrigerated rooms for lagers. My bet is if given the choice people would feel more comfortable going to a converted warehouse than a converted garage in someone's house. But that is my opinion. Remember it may fall into some FDA regulations. The ones I saw look like fairly big operations with hundreds of choices of recipes. I know you are just starting but check out your compition in the area it is important IMO.
 
Actually, you should try to find one in your area and sign up for a batch to see just what you are up against and what you may have not thought of. For one, they make you register with the state. The last thing I want is to register with the state what I do in the privacy of my own home. I am making beer not plutonium.
 
Revamp the whole system and do this:

Instead of brewing 10 or 20 gallons at a time, get a 7-bbl system, and get your number of customers lined up for the next batch. At pitching time, you will need to split up the pitch between the the max number of gallons of beer per year that a homebrewer can make so that if you have a request for say 200 gallons and that the max per year a homebrewer can do is 200 gallons, you only need one customer to pitch the yeast. Of course at that point, he's done for the number of pitches that he can do for the year. This would have to be calculated/accounted for properly.

Then the next time, another customer can pitch the yeast but the same (previous) pitching customers can still chip in and buy some, they're just not pitching the yeast anymore. They'd be limited to the number of gallons purchased per year.
In effect, you'd be allowing a customer to pitch yeast for up to 200 gallons max, and to purchase a max of 200-gallons throughout the year. (this assumes a max per yer of 200 gallons per person).

If your batch size is bigger than 200-gallons, say 275, you'd need 2 yeast pitchers to keep it legal.

This larger batch size would greatly cut down on the number of batches to be done and especially on the number of hours spent brewing overall. Of course you'd need a bottling line.

If you're savvy and technology oriented, you send out "next batch: hefeweizen", and get your orders in, tally them one week before the brew session, and place your grain/hops/yeast order from your supplier(s).

You're essentially removing the legality of having a brewing/liquor license by having the customers pitch the yeast.

I have no idea if it'd fly, but it's a thought.

M_C

I am pretty sure the law says not only can you only brew 200g yourself a year, it has to be for your personal consumption. I would think too that just because you did not consume all of your 200g that it entitles you to "purchase" some of another batch someone else brewed. If I understand your plan that is. They also can't "buy" beer, they could buy the ingrediants of the next persons batch for them but I doubt that would entitle the buyer to any beer, let alone to buy it.
 
Good idea, I will look around and see if there are any such places that are local, but given all of the searching and looking I have done as of late turned up nothing. I would not have to register, nor would any of my tenants under the state and federal laws as I read them. So long as I am not brewing it for them, I am not involved in their manufacture, is it not my beer or wine and therefore I don't need to register as a brewery. Second, as I am only renting space and leasing equipment, again the product is not mine. I would have to have a waiver signed also stating that you are not brewing anywhere else and that if you brew over 200gal I would have to report is- and you would have to agree not to sell your product. All of these things make you eligible for a tax stamp in California... My thing is space and security and since you are leasing- the space might as well be your home.
 
I had thought of something similar to this, having a facility where people could come in and brew their own beer or make their own wine, along with having a home brew shop. Sell the ingredients, rent the equipment and provide tech support.
I think there are a lot of people living in apartments or condos that don't have the space to brew at home. People who want a style of beer that is not marketed in their location. People that would want to try before they buy.
Maybe market your business to people that might want to brew their own beer or make their own wine for a wedding or other special occasion. And have kegs available for rent.
The main thing would be to be able to sell your customers what they want, either a service, or equipment and supplies if they get to the point that they want to start brewing at home. I'm not sure if I live in a large enough market for this to work for me, but then again, here in Wisconsin we do love our beer.
 
Good idea, I will look around and see if there are any such places that are local, but given all of the searching and looking I have done as of late turned up nothing. I would not have to register, nor would any of my tenants under the state and federal laws as I read them. So long as I am not brewing it for them, I am not involved in their manufacture, is it not my beer or wine and therefore I don't need to register as a brewery. Second, as I am only renting space and leasing equipment, again the product is not mine. I would have to have a waiver signed also stating that you are not brewing anywhere else and that if you brew over 200gal I would have to report is- and you would have to agree not to sell your product. All of these things make you eligible for a tax stamp in California... My thing is space and security and since you are leasing- the space might as well be your home.


I meant here in NJ you are supposed to register just to brew/make wine regardless of how much. May be different in CA.
 
California home brewers get 100gal of beer and wine for a single person at an address and 200 of beer and wine per multiple people at the one dwelling. I personally would love to get to the 400 gallon mark. But I haven't the space to do 20 concurrently.
 
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