Homebrew Class Liability

The past two years I have taught a class on homebrewing through a local organization. As part of the class, attendees are able to have free samples of my beer. In doing the class through this organization, I did not worry about liability at all.

This year I have decided to teach the class myself. In doing so, I am going to draft a liability waiver for attendees to sign. I have looked online and found some good sources from the by-laws of homebrew clubs. Denny had this great blip on another forum which I will probably work from:

"Members recognize that participation in Cascade Brewers Society activities is entirely voluntary. Participation in these activities may involve the consumption of alcoholic beverages which may affect perception and reactions. Members will accept individual responsibility for their conduct and behavior. The Cascade Brewers Society will neither assume nor accept responsibility for an individual’s actions. Also, members agree that driving while intoxicated is a serious violation of law and of expected behavior at club events and agree that they will find alternate transportation if they are unable to safely and legally operate a motor vehicle. Members agree they alone are responsible for their actions before, during and after club events, including, but not limited to, decisions about driving after consuming alcoholic beverages and waive any claim, legal or otherwise, against the club and its members, hosts and guests stemming from formal or informal club activities. "

I want to avoid paying for any sort of event insurance or becoming an LLC. I have read that a correctly worded waiver will stand up in court, if need be. What are your opinions of the wording above?

When you did it through the other venue, did participants have to sign waivers as well? I've never given this any thought. Interesting.

This is a good idea. About 5 years ago, there was this girl that went to a local bar for her birthday. She drank several drinks and shots, drove drunk, and killed herself on the way home.

I don't know the exact details, but the parents sued the bar, and the court found that the girl was "overserved" and awarded a gazillion dollars to the family. The girl's family now owns and runs the bar (which I think is a bit hypocritical, but it's 100% true).

Any organization/event where alcohol is served needs to be (cue Elmer Fudd voice) vewry vewry careful.

Revvy said:

When you did it through the other venue, did participants have to sign waivers as well?

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Yes, they did. If they were not salty about me not doing the class through them, I would ask for a copy of the waiver they used.

TopherM said:

This is a good idea. About 5 years ago, there was this girl that went to a local bar for her birthday. She drank several drinks and shots, drove drunk, and killed herself on the way home.

I don't know the details, but the parents sued the bar, and the bar found that the girl was "overserved" and awarded a gillion dollars to the family. The girl's family now owns and run the bar (which I think is a bit hypocritical, but it's 100% true).

Any organization where alcohol is served needs to be (cue Elmer Fudd voice) vewry vewry careful.

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That's flipping crazy. Do bars need to collect waivers from every entrant, now?

homebrewdad said:

That's flipping crazy. Do bars need to collect waivers from every entrant, now?

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No but there are definite issues they can run into for over serving people. Can we please stay on topic?

I am a tattoo artist , I know the importance of a waiver. I have had people complain that there tattoo didn't heal due to THEM not taking care of it during the healing process. Even thought they read a waiver and I hand out tattoo care sheet's with all the info they need.
If I where you I would add some info on them hurting themselves when the go home and get burned. Then decide to sue you because you didn't warn the new home brewer that boiling fluid's can hurt you. (That's what they will say at least) People love to sue over there own stupidity and look for a reason to get someone. Protect yourself from the dumb vultures.

Never occurred to me. Interesting. I keep thinking about the big brew day that my LHBS puts on in May and November....there's TONS of alcohol consumed, and hundreds of folks moving through the event on that day. I wonder if it ever occurred to them that they could be liable if something happens.

I kinda of forget, that this hobby we do isn't making pottery, we're making alcohol, and alcohol + overindulgence/idiocy can be problematic. And blow back on us, or the event organizer.

Waiver or not, they can still sue you and make your life both costly and miserable.
Are you going to charge for this service? It may make a difference in the liability. I would consider an LLC license.

You need liability insurance if you are going to operate an independent business. No matter what you have people sign, there is always something you could get sued for. Who knows... you could trip and accidentally smack someone with a mash paddle. Someone could drop their beer and cut themselves with the broken glass. Some beer could spill on the floor and a completely sober person could slip on it.

You might (probably not, but might) be able to craft a waiver that would remove all liability for the stupid actions of the people who attend. You'll never be able to craft a waiver that protects you against your own mistakes or accidents you play a roll in. You don't want to be in a position where you lose everything you own because of something like that.

I'm not a lawyer but consider this if you wish. The person signing the waiver may have trouble suing for damages that are covered in the signed waiver document but nothing stops their spouse from doing it on their behalf having no interest in the waiver at all. This is especially true if the signer dies as a result.

Revvy said:

Never occurred to me. Interesting. I keep thinking about the big brew day that my LHBS puts on in May and November....there's TONS of alcohol consumed, and hundreds of folks moving through the event on that day. I wonder if it ever occurred to them that they could be liable if something happens.

I kinda of forget, that this hobby we do isn't making pottery, we're making alcohol, and alcohol + overindulgence/idiocy can be problematic. And blow back on us, or the event organizer.

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There is no need for a waiver if they carry liability or dram shop insurance. For any big event with alcoholic drinks, where you have any concern that someone will over-imbibe, insurance is a good idea.

My general understanding was that many waivers do not mitigate liability - just because I sign a form saying that I know sky diving is dangerous and that I won't sue the company doesn't mean that my heirs won't when I die.

Lets say someone attends a homebrew club meeting, signs a waiver, over-indulges, then drives drunk and kills someone. While the drunk driver probably can't sue the club, I see no reason why a waiver they didn't sign would keep the family of the deceased from suing.

I would get legal advice on this.

Another thought... while handing out samples is a nice touch, it's completely unnecessary in the context of teaching the class.

Bobby_M said:

I'm not a lawyer but consider this if you wish. The person signing the waiver may have trouble suing for damages that are covered in the signed waiver document but nothing stops their spouse from doing it on their behalf having no interest in the waiver at all. This is especially true if the signer dies as a result.

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Two minds thinking alike

BrutalBrew said:

If I where you I would add some info on them hurting themselves when the go home and get burned. Then decide to sue you because you didn't warn the new home brewer that boiling fluid's can hurt you.

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That's an interesting idea that I never considered. "He taught me to brew beer and when I brewed beer I was hurt!" I think it may be covered under the
"Members agree they alone are responsible for their actions before, during and after club events, including, but not limited to, decisions about driving after consuming alcoholic beverages and waive any claim, legal or otherwise, against the club and its members, hosts and guests stemming from formal or informal club activities. "

acidrain said:

Waiver or not, they can still sue you and make your life both costly and miserable.
Are you going to charge for this service? It may make a difference in the liability. I would consider an LLC license.

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The class costs $15 a head. I have received a quote for renting the area, printing class materials and for food, and with enough people it will be worth my while. The class will be a once a year thing. I am afraid that even having to talk to a lawyer or having one review some paperwork would make it cost me money to do the class.

" I am afraid that even having to talk to a lawyer or having one review some paperwork would make it cost me money to do the class."

If you can't afford the legal advice or insurance, then this isn't a business you should be in. It doesn't make sense to risk everything you own for a hundred bucks.

And frankly, I'm surprised you can find anyplace that would rent you space for a commercial activity without having liability insurance. Does their policy cover you and your class?

I'm surprised you can find anyplace that would rent you space for a commercial activity without having liability insurance.

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I organize some of our homebrew club's activities, and I'm also a working DJ performing 130+ gigs a year at various venues for the past 9 years, and I have NEVER been asked if I have insurance. Venues probably should, but in reality, I don't think many do.

What would happen if the class was free? Or "free?"

It doesn't matter if the class was free or not, I am still providing alcohol and want to be covered in case of dip**** behavior.

Alright, I have done some research and this is what I have come up with for those of you who are curious of the subject.

There is what is called Social Host Liability. This is liability in cases such as a drive driving accident, serving a VIP (visibly intoxicated person) or serving minors. It varies from state to state. I live in PA where:
"the court found no social host liability for the actions of adult guests"
There is liability for minors though. Of course I will be checking IDs for my class.

Now here is the million dollar question. Am I a social host? The samples of beer are free and will be advertised as such. According to USLegal.com:
"The term "social host" means anyone who hosts a social gathering, including private individuals, employers, and organizations."

Thoughts?

I would think that if you don't possess an alcohol license then you are considered a "social host".

"Now here is the million dollar question. Am I a social host? The samples of beer are free and will be advertised as such. "

Actually, that is more like a 10 million dollar question in terms of what you might get sued for.

It is also by far the least likely thing you would get sued for. The vast majority of the things you might actually have liability for have nothing to do with serving alcohol. They are all the little things you'll never think of until something stupid happens during your class.

I would think charging for the class would remove you from the definition of being a "social host", regardless if you are charging for the beers.

BUT... how about this. Don't charge for the class, but make up a little booklet on what you are going to be teaching. In that booklet also contains the waiver, safety guidelines, etc. Then charge $15 for the booklet and have the rules of the class require the booklet in hand to attend.

Now you just sold a booklet and are then a "social host". Maybe?

As a business owner, I would advise that you set up a company and get insurance, because even though they sign a waiver it does not prevent someone else from suing you, or a good lawyer finding a loophole in your waiver.
I write agreements all the time with "Hold harmless" clauses but I still carry insurance.

Kosch said:

I would think charging for the class would remove you from the definition of being a "social host", regardless if you are charging for the beers.

BUT... how about this. Don't charge for the class, but make up a little booklet on what you are going to be teaching. In that booklet also contains the waiver, safety guidelines, etc. Then charge $15 for the booklet and have the rules of the class require the booklet in hand to attend.

Now you just sold a booklet and are then a "social host". Maybe?

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I was thinking of doing something in terms of this, or even a donation for the class. I am not sure if a donation really is any different than a payment though.

I called a lawyer and he said he could research the law and see if I am a social host but it would cost nearly $400 for his time, regardless of what he finds. I think I may go talk to my insurance agent and see what they say today.

bknifefight said:

I was thinking of doing something in terms of this, or even a donation for the class. I am not sure if a donation really is any different than a payment though.

I called a lawyer and he said he could research the law and see if I am a social host but it would cost nearly $400 for his time, regardless of what he finds. I think I may go talk to my insurance agent and see what they say today.

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Get in touch with the homebrewer's association. They deal with legislation and law a lot for our hobby. This may have already come up for them and they might have suggestions, or maybe even have lawyers on staff they could run it up the flagpole to. Or this may never have occured to them, like it hadn't to me, and they might want to look into it for themselves so they can have suggestions for their membership.

Great idea Revvy! I just called and was directed to Gary Glass, who is out of the office until Tuesday. I sent him an e-mail explaining the situation and asking for advise.

bknifefight said:

Great idea Revvy! I just called and was directed to Gary Glass, who is out of the office until Tuesday. I sent him an e-mail explaining the situation and asking for advise.

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Holy carp, you got sent right to the top of the heap!!!!

Let us know next week.

Waivers are almost worth the paper they are written on.

On mobile and can't see your state, but considering a lot of states don't allow you to carry homebrew to another venue for your own consumption, much less for giving to people in a paid venture, I would start by checking this. A waiver is going to do you no good when it is found out that it was against the law for you to be given out the beer in the first place.

In PA I can take homebrew whereever beer is allowed and there are no laws restricting it being given away.

I received a response from Gary at AHA:
"That’s an issue I have not come across. It may depend on whether or not you are making a profit from the fee or if you are just covering the course materials cost."

At this point I have decided that if I do the class, it will be through the local community college who has put it on before. That way it is all covered under their liability insurance. I think reading up on all of this and talking to people has freaked me out way too much lol

Interesting. So when I asked if it matters if the class is free, I was on to something.

I think doing it through the CC will protect you in case something stupid happens. That's probably what I'd do

I think going this through the community college is a wise idea. Keep in mind that if you are serving your own homebrew (at this class or even at home), you may be in a special class because you are not only the "host" but also the "manufacturer" of the product. I can certainly see a crafty plaintiffs lawyer (I know a few) coming up with theories on why you should be liable.

Glad to see you will go this way. These waivers may serve to a point, but do not clear you of negligence. If a court found some action of yours negligent then the waiver is nothing but toilet paper. Then without some form of corporate wall you would be personally on the hook for everything.

Teaching it through the CC is wise. I used to teach a class on Parliamentary Procedure through our CC. They handled all the headaches and liability, than cut me a paycheck for my time--even handled my tax withholding. Besides it didn't hurt the resume to show myself as an instructor at the CC.