Adding Body to an IPA

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Gilbey

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I have been working on a house IPA for a while now, and I have it pretty close to where I want it. I am shooting for a BIG hop nose, relatively high OG, and a malty body. I am close, but I am looking to add more malt body to it. My initial ideas are adding some more crystal malt or perhaps even some German cara-amber that does such wonderful things to my Alt recipe. Or maybe finding a way to keep the FG up a little higher (how would I do that?) What do you think?

Here's the 5 gallon recipe in it's current state;

13# pale malt
.5# carapils
.5# 60L crystal
1 oz Columbus (60 min)
1 oz Amarillo (20 min)
1 oz Simcoe (10 min)
1 oz Simcoe (5 min)
2 oz Amarillo (dry hopped)
Yeast - 1056 American Ale (fermented at 68F)

Mashed at 156F 60 minutes, batch sparge

OG 1.068
FG 1.008
 
Use a lower attenuating yeast? Maybe a Kolsch yeast; it's still pretty clean and may not dry the beer out so much.
 
you could add malto-dextrin for more body without gaining too much sweetness from more crystal...
 
And I would add Munich malt. Just try something, you can always do it differently in the next batch if its not just how you like it.

+1 on the Munich. Replace 1 lb of the base malt with 1 lb of Munich. That will add melanoidins and make the beer more malty. I probably wouldn't change the yeast. American ale and Kolsch yeast actually attenuate about the same.
 
You could try upping the mash temperature by a degree or two, shortening the mash time, or making the mash thicker (which would be my choice) - all three affect attenuation to some degree, which would leave more dextrins in the beer. I wouldn't try all three at once, though.
 
use some mild ale malt, caramunich (or cara 45) and carawheat,mash at 154. I use THE original Ballantine strain and get finishing gravities in my ipas 1.010-1.012, lots of chew to handle the hops
 
If you are mashing at 156 and ending up at 1.008, I would try a lower attenuating yeast than the 1056 to start. If you are set on 1056, then try beefing up the crystal malt a bit and see how that does. I would only change 1 variable at a time though.
 
Something seems a little bit off... 156 is relatively high. I would have expected that to finish at 1.012 at least with 1056.... How do you arrive at your temperatures? can you calibrate your thermometer?

just my two cents
 
I support upping the crystal and/or carapils, but I'm usually a dissenter around here because I like my beers a little sweeter and thicker.

The Green Flash West Coast IPA uses about 1.25# crystal AND 1.25# carapils in the recipe... that's one of the chewier IPAs I can think of. The rest of the grain bill is just two row.
 
use some mild ale malt, caramunich (or cara 45) and carawheat,mash at 154. I use THE original Ballantine strain and get finishing gravities in my ipas 1.010-1.012, lots of chew to handle the hops

I heard a rumor of the original ballantine yeast, I even was sent an empty bottle. Any ideas where to get some in NJ?

Thanks.

Alan
 
Something seems a little bit off... 156 is relatively high. I would have expected that to finish at 1.012 at least with 1056.... How do you arrive at your temperatures? can you calibrate your thermometer?

just my two cents

I am using a digital thermometer that I think is pretty accurate. I believe my hydrometer readings are accurate as well. I could be wrong of course :confused:.

Alan
 
The Green Flash West Coast IPA uses about 1.25# crystal AND 1.25# carapils in the recipe... that's one of the chewier IPAs I can think of. The rest of the grain bill is just two row.


"Chewy"! That's what I am looking for in my IPA!:mug: I think I will try this recipe with a healthier dose of carapils and crystal. Then I will try it with some cara-amber. Then I will try some of the other suggestions you guys mention. Give me 15 or 20 batches and I will eventually nail it!

Alan
 
I heard a rumor of the original ballantine yeast, I even was sent an empty bottle. Any ideas where to get some in NJ?

Thanks.

Alan

There's lots of scuttlebutt out there that White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast, W'Yeast 1056 American Ale Yeast, and Safale US-05 are all versions of the "Chico Strain" used by Sierra Nevada that supposedly originated from Ballantine.

Whether 30 years of separation between Ballantine and Sierra Nevada means the "sub-strains" behave differently, I don't know.
 
I can tell you that an independent yeast guy in NJ is selling what he claims to be the actual balantine yeast under the name old newark ale yeast. I don't have a dog in the hunt, but Joe at Princeton Homebrew near Trenton NJ has some for sale and will ship. I have more info on my work computer, and I'll post what I was sent tomorrow. the manufacturer is the same guy who sells Al's bug farm yeast at http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1281735655&pg=1&tpg=3. It comes in a neat lil' jug. I dont know if that will help you, but if you want the balantine yeast, it is available.
 
I'm a little confused with this....going from 1.068 to 1.008 is >85% attenuation according to my calcs.

Is this even possible with 1056 which should be around 72-75%?
 
Yeah Al Buck supplies the Ballantine strain he calls "Old Newark Ale". He streaked it from a yeast bank so its deff. the original Ballantine ale strain. You can call princeton homebrew and Joe will ship it.

I can tell you its nothing like 1056, its higher flocculating and forms a hard cake on the bottom of the fermenter. I'd say more like ringwood without the diacetyl. I love this strain leaves a nice malty finish
 
The description of Old Newark Ale from Joe at Princeton Homebrew:

ECY10 Old Newark Ale: Sourced from a now defunct east coast brewery, this pure strain was identified as their ale pitching yeast. Good for all styles of American and English ales. Suggested fermentation temp: 60-68°F. Apparent attenuation : 68-72%
 
I'm a little confused with this....going from 1.068 to 1.008 is >85% attenuation according to my calcs.

Is this even possible with 1056 which should be around 72-75%?

I actually calculate it to be 89%. And unfortunately, I like the OP, have problems with beers overattenuating.
 
I have to go see Joe about some grain soon, so I will ask him. I have an empty jug of the yeast that a friend gave me. It has an address in my hometown on it, Hillsborough, NJ, but it's a residential address. Interested, and fun to track down.

I don't know what to say about the attenuation. I believe that my hydrometer readings are accurate and adjusted (when needed) for temp variation. Could overpitching yeast do this?

I can tell you that the 1056 I am using has been washed and repitched at least 6 times. Could that be an issue? I am not getting any off flavors, and I am getting strong starters and hungry yeast that eats through primary in just a few days.

ALan
 
I don't think overpitching would cause overattenuation (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but it may be. Are you using mrmalty and calculating your starter volumes correctly?

I'd be inclined to check your thermometer though. If your mash temps are off by 5 degrees that could make a huge difference in wort fermentability. Check in boiling water and in ice water. I've seen people report that their thermometers are good at freezing temp but off by ten degrees near boiling. Just because your's is digital doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate, even though it is precise.

Also, get some iodine at start testing for conversion. If you have conversion at 45 min you could start lautering then instead of waiting another 15 min. Doing so should decrease your wort fermentability.
 
I have been using Mr. Malty, although I am sometimes not sure I am 100% accurate on the volumes.

Good point on the thermometer. I will calibrate it again and see what it looks like.

I did the Iodine test for my first couple batches, but I have since let it slip. I need to get on that again.

Thanks for your help and ideas.

Alan
 
I'd also like to mention the only reason I'm not suggesting adding a different malt to the beer is because you seem happy with the flavor, just not the body. IMO, you should be able to alter your process to achieve your results. Doing things like adding carapils would increase the body, but IMO, you're not fixing the problem, you're just correcting the symptom.
 
Gotcha, and thanks Ichthy. I am really hoping I am going to discover that my thermometer is off. It's something I should have thought of myself to check, but I just assumed it was accurate.

The more I think about it, the more I think it tastes like a beer that was mashed at 150-152, not 156-158.....Hmmmmm.

Alan
 
I am using a digital thermometer that I think is pretty accurate. I believe my hydrometer readings are accurate as well. I could be wrong of course :confused:.

Alan

I stand corrected, I popped open an APA that i had in primary to take a gravity reading and measured 1.009... that was using Safale-05. I am surprised it dried out like that. I am going to back sweeten it with Malto-Dextrine
 
Why are you using the 1056/S-05 yeast, complaining about it being too attenuative then trying to fix the problem with non-fermentable malt?

Sounds ass-backwards to me. Why not use a yeast that actually flocculates? Ringwood Ale, American Ale II. Those are both the shiz and flocculate like crazy, which means less attenuation.

But, if you insist on fixing the problem with malt. Caramalts (Weyermann) add body much more than sweetness, def. less than Crystal malts at the same color. Crystal malts add body and sweetness. I would use either all Caramalts or the majority of Caramalts for your specialty grains.

156 F mash temp, ~1.068 down to 1.009. That doesn't seem right with an all-malt brew. That is like a Strong Golden Belgian, not a type of pale ale. Just makes us question your ability to read a hydrometer and/or correctly adjust your readings for temp.
 
I'm questioning the hydro or thermometer....I just dont see how it's possible you're getting close to 90% attenuation using 1056/S-05.
 
Here you go fellas:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/over-attenuation-i-think-i-may-something-diagnosis-solution-177828/

My buddy fixed his overattenuating by doing a mashout. If you don't do this step, perhaps it might help.

Hey! That's what I said! Nice to cite a post tho.

EDIT: oops, I said that in another post. I said:
The longer you mash, regardless of temp, you will get a more fermentable wort. How long do you mash for? Do you do a mash out? How long until the beginning of the mash until all the sparge water has been collected? If you don't mash out and sparge for a long time, that could be trumping the 156 F mash temp.
 
I wouldn't use any american ale strain, dry or otherwise if I wanted body.

For example, compare Saranac pale ale or ipa, with Magic Hat Lucky
Kat. The MH brew has much more body. I thought when I first tasted
it they must be using an English strain, sure enough their website
says they do for that one.

I've never had any luck using crystal malts. A lot may make a light
beer taste funny, a lot might work in a dark beer.
I use London Ale III, and add a little sodium chloride (like 1/8 tsp for
5 gal.) because that increases the perception of body.

Ray
 
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