Are my Yeasts Dead?

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Kennelmouth

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1st of all, sorry; I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere but I guess I'm too green to find it, so here goes...

I've just finished my second brew, a red rye from an extract kit that I got from a local brew supplier. All went well during the brew process, near as I can tell, and I pitched yeast into the fermenter at 81 degrees. OG was 1.060.

The next day I checked the fermenter (a glass carboy) and it was looking great. The wort was churning and there was a thick layer of foam and the airlock was pop-pop-popping. Awesome.

About 12 hours later I checked in on it and there was no foam, no churn, and weak bubbling at the airlock. I have not checked the gravity, since it has only been 36 hours.

No one was home between the time that the carboy's content was making me grin and when it became a source of soul-crushing depression, but I know it did get warm in the house. Last I checked the stick-on thermometer was around 78, and I know that fermentation can bring more heat. For what its worth, my suspicion is that heat is responsible for what has happened.

Is my yeast dead? Do I re-pitch? What other information do I need to provide to help you answer the question?
 
Congrats! Now to answer your question... Maybe not. Or possibly yes. Need more info... Why do you think they might be dead?

:mug:
 
OK with the new info you added, 78 is pretty warm... OK really warm... It may have completely fermented out already and you can also probably expect some ester production at a temp that high.

I would recommend the following: Take a gravity reading. Let it set for another 7-10 days. Take another gravity reading. If it is the same, bottle and see what you've got because it's done fermenting and cleaned up. If it's different, wait another 3 days and check gravity again. Rinse and repeat until you get the same reading twice.

You will really enjoy how much better your beer will become with temperature control at the early stages. 78 is very warm. In Maine, we would say that's wicked hawt for the beeah.
 
Without taking a gravity reading you really can't know too much, except you had visible fermentation and that's over now. At high temps fermentation will speed up. Wait a bit longer, say a few more days, and then take a reading. It fermented a bit hot, but I doubt your yesst are dead.
 
boydsbitchinbrews said:
OK with the new info you added, 78 is pretty warm... OK really warm... It may have completely fermented out already and you can also probably expect some ester production at a temp that high.

I would recommend the following: Take a gravity reading. Let it set for another 7-10 days. Take another gravity reading. If it is the same, bottle and see what you've got because it's done fermenting and cleaned up. If it's different, wait another 3 days and check gravity again. Rinse and repeat until you get the same reading twice.

You will really enjoy how much better your beer will become with temperature control at the early stages. 78 is very warm. In Maine, we would say that's wicked hot for the beeah.

Yeah, we had some power grid issues in the neighborhood this week and the closet just got way hotter than normal. Is it really possible for the fermentation to have all occurred in such a rapid time? Im new to this so i really don't know, but my last brew took 10 days to reach a stable gravity at only a few degrees less.
 
boydsbitchinbrews said:
I would recommend the following: Take a gravity reading. Let it set for another 7-10 days. Take another gravity reading. If it is the same, bottle and see what you've got because it's done fermenting and cleaned up. If it's different, wait another 3 days and check gravity again. Rinse and repeat until you get the same reading twice.

Ok so, if I do that and the gravity is still high then I should repitch? And if it is low I should bottle and get used to the taste of Juicy Fruit?
 
It is possible. At 1.060, I would think it would take longer, but the only way to know for sure is to check gravity and to keep tabs on whether or not it is changing. Usually, I wait at least 10 days before I check it, but if you are worried about your yeast health you can check it earlier to make sure it is working. It sounds like it is working, and at this point, there is a healthy CO2 blanket over the beer to help ensure you don't oxidize it by checking the gravity so there really isn't much to lose. It might still be fermenting, even though it doesn't look like it, and at higher temps you really want to give the yeast time to clean up and off-flavors it might produce (diacetyl, acetaldehyde, etc) so that is why I say check it now and then again in 7-10 days. You may have some esters, but I would think you are still low enough to (hopefully) not have to worry about fusel alcohol production.
 
Ok so, if I do that and the gravity is still high then I should repitch? And if it is low I should bottle and get used to the taste of Juicy Fruit?

If after 72 hours it hasn't changed at all from the original gravity, repitch. I sincerely doubt that is the case. If the gravity has dropped, but isn't in the range you expected, wait the 7 days and check again. It should drop more. If it doesn't, you need to look into reasons it may have stalled and possibly consider repitching. As long as it is dropping, ride it out. Keep temps in the ideal range for your yeast strain as much as possible and go until the gravity readings stay the same for 3+ days. The esters may mellow with time, but you can expect them to stick around for a while.
 
I don't think your yeast is dead, but I wouldn't reuse it after this brew is done. Sounds like it's gone through unhealthy conditions and it's not worth risking another batch by using stressed yeast, since it could result in unwanted taste or unhealthy fermentation.

It's possible that the fermentation is done but the only way to know is by testing it. I would wait about a week after the active fermentation slows down before starting to test the gravity. Meanwhile keep it sealed and it should come out.
 
:off:
Can you imagine how much the people that make Juicy Fruit would pay to learn how to make the flavor stick around for months instead of minutes?? Mind = blown. :ban:
 
Ok, thanks.

Just to give you a visual this is day 1:

image-3522834411.jpg
 
Repitching is rarely the solution to a problem. Also, yeast rarely die. If they finished early (low attenuation), it's unlikely a pitch of fresh yeast would help much. Whatever the conditions that caused the first pitch to peter out is even worse now. Just chill and follow the advice to take gravity readings at least 3 days apart. You made beer! Next time you could make it better with some temperature control. Get it colder before you pitch, and keep it colder while it ferments and you'll get vast improvement. Brew, tweak, brew, repeat. On and on. You'll get there..
 
Cool, thanks. I think I know what to do now, but I do have a follow up question. When I am taking all these gravity readings what is the best way to not waste a bunch of Starsan? A spray bottle perhaps? I use a thief to take the sample and there's a lot of square inches to sanitize there.
 
Cool, thanks. I think I know what to do now, but I do have a follow up question. When I am taking all these gravity readings what is the best way to not waste a bunch of Starsan? A spray bottle perhaps? I use a thief to take the sample and there's a lot of square inches to sanitize there.

Waste? It's not wasted if you use it. Mix up a gallon or so and dip your thief entirely in it and then store the solution in a plastic bottle to use again later
 
Ok so clearly if my fermentation is done I am going to have some strange issues - off flavors and the like. It was recommended earlier in this thread that I give the beer time to sit in the fermenter to "clean up" the flavors - would taking the beer off of the yeast cake help or hurt this clean-up process?

Demus mentioned low attenuation. So what can I expect other than an Ester taste? Will it probably end up really sweet? Will the mouthfeel be syrupy? Is this a batch that I should just donate to the local homeless shelter?
 
Also, if you are patient you really shouldn't end up taking that many readings. I generally wait at least 10 days after all visible signs of fermentation have stopped before even checking the gravity. I also ferment in a pail with a valve so I just open the valve for a few seconds to take a sample, no need to sanitize anything! If you're using carboys and need the thief, you could just dip it in boiling water. Once beer has alcohol in it it's much less prone to infection...
 
Kennelmouth said:
Cool, thanks. I think I know what to do now, but I do have a follow up question. When I am taking all these gravity readings what is the best way to not waste a bunch of Starsan? A spray bottle perhaps? I use a thief to take the sample and there's a lot of square inches to sanitize there.

I use a spray bottle myself, works perfectly.
 
I took a measure last night...1.015. Only slightly lower than my target, so yeah it really did ferment that fast, and yeah it really does taste like apple cider.

But I still have these question: if I give the yeasts lots of extra time to wallow in their own filth and "clean up" the off-flavors would it be best to do so in the primary, where it is still on the yeast cake? Would this be likely to alter the clean-up time? Or is this something I should try to accomplish in bottle-conditioning?

Secondly, since the yeast obviously metabolize much more rapidly in warmer temperatures would the yeasts do a faster clean up at a higher temp? I know it is a little strange to try to fix a problem by using a method that caused the problem in the first place, but the conditions in the fermenter are a little different now.
 
I'd recommend leaving it on the yeast cake. That will ensure you have the largest amount of yeast still working on cleaning up, as opposed to racking to secondary and leaving a big percentage of the yeast behind.

And yes, you can slowly let the temperature come up to 72F or a little higher to help keep the yeast active. As a general rule of thumb, once the initial fermentation is complete, you can do this without worrying about producing additional off-flavors.
 
Good luck! The apple cider flavor will fade with conditioning, it is acetaldehyde. Give it a week or two on the yeast cake, then it should be really clear and ready for bottling and the apple flavor should fade noticeably. Just be advised that it might still need some aging time in bottles beyond 3 weeks to reach its prime.
 
I really like making starsan with a gallon of distilled water and using a squirt bottle. It lasts for months and month and months. I squirt down all my buckets tubing etc this way.

But first things first....Go check out: https://cool-brewing.com/ These bags are awesome and the work as advertised. My brew buddy didn't feel like investing an appliance. So we went with these. They allow you to easily control your fermenting temps by using frozen 2 liters of water. Super easy, super good.

They are large enough to easily accommodate a carboy, large 8 gallon buckets ,and while I haven't tried it the specs say a 15g keg will also fit.

Failing that, fill up the bathtub or laundry sink with water and use some frozen bottles in that. Not as neat and tidy but it does work.

The two greatest ways to improve your beer:

1. temp control
2. pitching enough yeast
 
So...update, I guess. Actually, more like a cry for more help. I let this brew sit in the carboy for about 3 weeks. I bottled it and it has been about 3 weeks since bottling. This brew doesn't have any of the weird flavors I expected, but it has a few that I didn't expect, and that sort of challenged my will to drink this beer.

What flavors you ask? Well, first there is a noticeable plastic flavor. I have read that this can be caused by Starsan or by chlorinated water. I used both Starsan AND chlorinated water to sanitize the carboy and the bottles, but I did the same thing on my first brew in the same quantities and that brew does not taste like I dry-hopped with powdered PVC. This flavor has mellowed in the last week. Anything else that could produce that flavor? Will it ever leave completely?

Secondly, I can occasionally detect the ghost of a "barnyard" flavor, sort of reminds me of an off-flavor that occurs in cheese. It is barely there, and no one else has noticed it, but I did.

Finally, it is overcarbonated. If you've ever had a Trois Pistols by Unibroue then you have a good idea how bubbly my brew is. I used the regular amount of prime sugar. Would this be likely to be due to the variety of yeast?

That all sounds bad, but overall I actually enjoy the beer, and it provided me my first experience last night of being intoxicated by something I made all by myself. That was awesome.
 
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