Has anyone rescued a failed carbonation situation?

hi, my ahs holiday ale is tasting great, but has no carbonation at all after 2 weeks in bottles. totally flat. now i did some research and i think i'll give it one more week then try the re-pitching of a few grains of yeast in each bottle, but before i do that, i wanted to ask if anyone has successfully rescued a situation like this, and what approach they used?

ps: i've been very resistant to the idea of kegs, want to go AG first, basically, but it's a shame to get a beer that's tasting really good and then get no bubble action!

What is the abv of the beer and how long was it aging in the secondary? If the abv is up there you may need to consider using something like a champagne yeast for it to be able to work in that medium. If it isn't that high then you should be able to get away with using any type of yeast. Also this question may not aply but was the priming sugar mixed well enough?

Cheers

WOP31 said:

What is the abv of the beer and how long was it aging in the secondary? If the abv is up there you may need to consider using something like a champagne yeast for it to be able to work in that medium. If it isn't that high then you should be able to get away with using any type of yeast. Also this question may not aply but was the priming sugar mixed well enough?

Cheers

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OG was 1048, FG was about 1010, so it's not a high ABV, it's about 4.5-5% i think.

i had it in secondary only for about a week (after two in primary). i'm wondering if i left it too long, if maybe i need to get the bottles warmed up somehow or aggitate them a bit?

Some things to check before using more priming sugar: one, make sure the temperature they are at now is as close to 70 degrees as possible, and gently rouse the yeast by swirling each bottle upside down.

They shouldn't be totally flat- so I also suggest checking the caps and making sure they are totally sealed.

The temp was around 65, might have been too low? There are like a few bubbles, and actually a bit of a sounds when you uncap the bottle, but then nothing. The beer tastes a little bit sweet so I'm thinking there's no need for additional sugar, maybe the yeast was too far gone, temp in the secondary might have been too low.

Would bringing the temp up on these boys help? I could give the bottles a gentle bath in some warm water, see if that helps to kick start something.

cd2448 said:

OG was 1048, FG was about 1010, so it's not a high ABV, it's about 4.5-5% i think.

i had it in secondary only for about a week (after two in primary). i'm wondering if i left it too long, if maybe i need to get the bottles warmed up somehow or aggitate them a bit?

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With that ABV you do not need to add Champagne yeast. Normal ale yeast will work just fine.

2 weeks in primary and 1 week in secondary is not too long of a time.

2 weeks in the bottle is not especially long, either. I have had batches not be carbed much at 2 weeks and then be great at 3 weeks.

So, I recommend waiting another week and then trying another one. If its still not carb'd enough, then go ahead and gently agitate them. That has worked for me in the past.

I'm assuming that you added enough priming sugar and the bottles are being kept warm, like at least 68º. If they are any cooler than that then try to move them someplace a little warmer, like in the mid 70's.

You probably already know this, but I'll say it anyway, before you open a bottle let it refrigerate for at least day or two. That helps.

EDIT: Damn, Naked BrewMistress of the UP has beat me to an answer...again!

Beerthoven said:

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You probably already know this, but I'll say it anyway, before you open a bottle let it refrigerate for at least day or two. That helps.

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Actually, I thought that refrigeration reduced the level of carbonation, is that thinking wrong?

I'm thinking that the whole process was done at too low a temp. Which is a problem, as I don't think I can get the basement any warmer. Looks like a good time to lay down a lager...

swmbo "allows" me to put my carbonating bottles upstairs by the gas fireplace instead of the much cooler basement.
maybe if you ask yours nicely?.....

cd2448 said:

Actually, I thought that refrigeration reduced the level of carbonation, is that thinking wrong?

I'm thinking that the whole process was done at too low a temp. Which is a problem, as I don't think I can get the basement any warmer. Looks like a good time to lay down a lager...

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While the beer is carbing up you want to keep it warm. Do you have space in an upstairs closet or under your bed?

The lower the temp the more CO2 the beer can hold. If you open the bottles while warm, the CO2 will quickly escape leaving you with flat beer. If you refrigerate the bottles, the CO2 will stay in the beer giving you a greater perception of carbonation.

At least, that is how my social-science mind understands it. Maybe one of the "real" scientists on board will correct me.

Beertoven has it right...cooler liquids can hold more dissolved gasses, expressed as 'volumes' of gas.

typical beer is around 2 volumes of CO2.

you do need 70F temperatures for the yeast to stay nice and active to carbonate the beer.
I'm assuming you did add something like 2/3 cup of corn sugar when you bottled?

give them another week at room temp.
another tip, is chill your beer at least 24 hours before drinking. the CO2 needs to dissolve back into the beer when it chills. if you can go 2 days or more in the fridge before opening one, the beer will be 'better' carbonated, in terms of mouthfeel, and longevity (its more dissolved after 3 days, so it comes out of solution a little slower).

don't panic I had a porter that did not carbonate intill almost 4 weeks. It will happen, have faith

Thanks for all the tips here. I'm going to move the bottles to a warmer part of the house for a week, then fridge one and see how that looks. The taste is really pretty good so I'm not giving up on this batch just yet!

never give up on a batch. I have a saison the i brewed that been in the bottles for almost a year. And it still doesn't have enough carbination. but man does it taste good and it's holding me over till i can buy some more Fantome saison. http://www.sheltonbrothers.com/beers/beerProfile.asp?BeerID=51

Odd question, but put a batch in flip tops (mentioned this in another forum) and at least one of them was not carbonated after 3 weeks or so (its oktoberfest). Havent had a chance to try the others yet, but if, and i mean IF they carbonated but lost it all due to poor flip top connection, could i technically put them in my newly aquired keg since they are technically not carbonated?

sound right to me, but i know NOTHING about kegging, but i want to do it and i got two kegs for 25 bucks on ebay, so it sounds like a great time to start!

cd2448 said:

The temp was around 65,...

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That's too cold.

72 degrees.
Rock the cases back and forth slightly every day for a week to reagitate the yeast.
Count down 2 more weeks.
Chill a bottle for a day and test.

sort of related to this topic...

How long is too long in the secondar? By too long, I mean where the yeast is no longer active and you would need to add more to get carbonation during bottling?

I'm not sure about too long - I think the yeast kind of hangs around and waits for something to eat. It might need higher temp and a bit of aggitation (shaking) to get it back in business, but I don't think it ever really goes (permenantly) inactive.

The original situation seems to be resolving itself with a bit of time and warmth. Really happy as the beer tastes pretty good.

Generally I'm realizing that patience is rewarded - the beer I'm just finishing now is tasting 10 times better than it did 2-3 weeks ago. You live and learn.

If I may... I had a similar situation and someone recommended placing the cases of bottles on the top of the refrigerator.... took about 5 days and my carbonation problem disappeared........I also keep my home pretty cool so I have to watch temperatures like a hawk.

Is that because the top of the refridgerator is warm?

My first batch only had a few that carbed nice, I ended up dumping the whole batch (bottle by bottle) into a corny filled with CO2 and force carbed it.

It worked great.