Dry Stout Recipe advice

I'm running my first 10 gallon brew tomorrow. I've got my equipment all set so I'm not worried in that regard. I'm splitting it into two fermenters and pitching different yeast strains. The yeasts are what I'm most concerned with but comments on any other aspect of the recipe would be great as well.

14.00 lbs Pale malt (2 row US) 80%
1.75 lbs flaked barley 10%
1.75 lbs roast barley 10%

2.25 oz Cluster 7.8%AA (60 min) = 34.6 IBU

In 5 gallons I have Safale US-05, in the other Lallemand Windsor. Both yeasts are dry.

I plan to mash at 150 for 75 minutes. Fermentation will be at 68 degrees.

Are these yeasts appropriate to the style? How does the rest of the recipe look? I have some Glacier hops and was considering adding a small aroma addition, would that be a good idea?

I'm too lazy to figure your your expected OG, but I would up the IBU's until you get to a 1.0 BU:GU (so if you're at that point already, disregard and forgive my laziness, it's Monday morning and I'm at work ). If you're shooting for a classic dry stout, I think you'll find it disappointing if it doesn't have the right level of bitterness. For the same reason I would bump the flaked barley up to 25% of the grist.

For the yeast, US-05 will be great, but I would drop the Windsor. It tends to be pretty fruity and will definitely not finish very low compared to what you're after for a dry stout. Nottingham or S-04 are excellent for dry stout (Nottingham being my goto yeast).

I would skip the aroma addition if it were me, but it's your beer!

My expected OG is 1.043 and I was aiming for a BU:GU of .8, maybe I should go higher.

The standard recipe I use is 70% British pale ale malt, 20% flaked barley, 10% roasted barley. One 60 minute hop addition for a BU:GU of 1. I am also a big fan of using the Nottingham yeast for this beer, works great.

I run mine at 1.1 and it seems perfect to me, but everyone is different of course. Give it a try at 0.8 and see if you want to tweak it next time.

I think I'll run a BU:GU at .9 and switch out for nottingham. It will be great to run that side by side with the US-05.

I think a comparison of Nottingham and S-05 would be really interesting, especially if it were done over a large number of brews (group project?). My understanding is that they are the same in a sense, in that they are both derived from the Chico or 1056 strain. In another sense, though, they are different, being propagated and packaged in different buildings in different countries, and could contain different additives (I've heard safale adds nutrients or rehydrating agents).

I'm kind of a biologist by nature, and I'm interested in how much these strains change over time. It's not really possible to know, for example, whether any long-lived brand is truly the same thing as it was 100 years ago, because we don't know how Ancient Hallowed Brewery X's proprietary yeast has changed over its many generations.

bbrim said:

I think I'll run a BU:GU at .9 and switch out for nottingham. It will be great to run that side by side with the US-05.

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Definitely! Be sure to post the results.

flipper51 said:

I think a comparison of Nottingham and S-05 would be really interesting, especially if it were done over a large number of brews (group project?). My understanding is that they are the same in a sense, in that they are both derived from the Chico or 1056 strain. In another sense, though, they are different, being propagated and packaged in different buildings in different countries, and could contain different additives (I've heard safale adds nutrients or rehydrating agents).

I'm kind of a biologist by nature, and I'm interested in how much these strains change over time. It's not really possible to know, for example, whether any long-lived brand is truly the same thing as it was 100 years ago, because we don't know how Ancient Hallowed Brewery X's proprietary yeast has changed over its many generations.

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It is rumored that the strain that Sierra Nevada uses (basis of wlp001, 1056, US-05) was obtained from a brewery that used Nottingham. So yeah, I think a side-by-side would be great.

I also adjusted the amount of flaked barley i will use. 72.5% Pale, 17.5%flaked, 10% roasted. I just hope it's ready by St. Patrick's day!

With the low OG I doubt that it wouldn't be ready for then.

flipper51 said:

I'm kind of a biologist by nature, and I'm interested in how much these strains change over time. It's not really possible to know, for example, whether any long-lived brand is truly the same thing as it was 100 years ago, because we don't know how Ancient Hallowed Brewery X's proprietary yeast has changed over its many generations.

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Yes, I am of the opinion that yeast has a high rate of mutation. If you don't maintain it the way the original brewery did then even the best labs do not have the strain that they think they do. Things like top-cropping, warm fermantation, cold crashing, low acid worts, copper kettles and types of malt really do influence yeasts. Micheal Jackson felt that the true lager strain did not exist until the advent of mechanical refrigeration.

An update on the status of this beer. I filled both carboys to almost exactly 5 gallons. I pitched both yeasts and had fermentation rapidly take off, I pitched Tuesday afternoon. The US 05 was slightly faster than the notty. The krausen was a bit thicker on the 05 and the fermentation was more vigorous and brief. The 05 pushed from an ambient temp of 67 up to a fermentation temp of 71 at its peak. The notty pushed up to 70. Both are resting at 67 now. I just took a reading on both. The OG was 1.046. The notty is now at 1.012 and the 05 at 1.011. They may both drop a point or two yet, only time will tell. I will let them sit 10 more days then bottle. I want them to have 4 weeks in the bottle before St. Paddy's otherwise I would let them sit an additional week.
As to the flavor of the samples... The 05 is drier, my girlfriend was saying she could sense a bit more "fruity" something in the 05. Clearly esters and this would perhaps be due to the temp difference as much as anything else. I will update again at bottling time.

Oh how things can change with time. The Nottingham finished at a nice dry 1.009 and the US 05 only made it down to 1.010. Both taste great, will give more info on flavor after conditioning.

bbrim said:

Oh how things can change with time. The Nottingham finished at a nice dry 1.009 and the US 05 only made it down to 1.010. Both taste great, will give more info on flavor after conditioning.

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4+ years later, can you remember how they turned out? LOL

Make that 5+ years! I remember it vaguely. I was very satisfied, it made for a great session stout. Crisp and clean with a very distinctive roast barley character. Ultimately it was one dimensional and wasn't a beer that encouraged a lot of contemplation about the flavors. That beer was great. After 10 gallons of it I was driven to seek more complexity in subsequent stout recipes. Now I like to use Mild Malt as the base, or at very least pale ale malt, and use roast barley with a complimentary dark malt.
I remember that brew day fondly. Everything went fairly smooth. There were a couple rough patches but the thing that sticks out is the cold. It was about 10F outside with 15-20 mph winds. Everyone that drove by looked at me like I was a maniac, and I may have been.
I hope that is helpful. Good luck!