1st AG recipe from scratch troubleshooting Black RyePA

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Rob1219

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I've have only brewed 3 AG before this will be my 4th. I love to come up with my own recipes. Other than drinking it, it's my fave part of brewing.
BUT with extract brewing it is alot easier to do b/c there are so many less variables to consider and there is less room for error.
SO, since this is my first recipe completely from scratch I am looking for comments about potential problems with the recipe more than anything, but comments about style or taste, etc. are welcome as well.
THANKS in advance!!
System: NB AG Deluxe 5 gal (rubbermaid 5.5 gal cooler, false bottom, fly sparge capable)
RECIPE:
BLACK RyePA
9 lb crushed Rahr 2-Row Pale Malt (69.2% of grain bill)
2 lb crushed Weyermann Rye Malt (15.3% of grain bill)
1 lb crushed Weyermann Chocolate Rye (7.7% of grain bill)
.5 lb Flaked Rye (3.9% of grain bill)
.5 lb crushed Belgian Debittered Black Malt (3.9% of grain bill)

2 oz Cascade Bittering
2 oz Cascade Flavoring
1 oz Centennial Flavoring
1 oz Simcoe or Australian Stella or Zythos Flavoring/Aroma
2 oz Cascade (whole cone/leaf or pellet) Dry Hopping
1 oz Citra (whole cone/leaf or pellet) Dry Hopping

1 tsp Irish Moss

White Labs 001- California Ale or Safale US-05

Strike water of 168° F (if grain temp is lower than room temp), using 4.25 gal or 17 qt, and added 1 gal at a time, stirring in between additions

Mash @ 152° F for 90 min

Fly Sparge @ 175° F, using 4.5 gal of sparge water; recirculate at beginning of sparge, finish sparge after wort becomes clear (longer sparge = higher efficiency, BE PATIENT!!).

Target yield of 6 gal after sparging

90 min wort boil, start hop boil after 45 min

45 min bittering hop boil (2 oz of Cascade)

15 min flavor hop boil (2 oz Cascade), with a teaspoon Irish Moss

5 min flavor/aroma hop partial boil, cut heat source before adding (1 oz Centennial and 1 oz Simcoe/Australian Stella/Zythos)

Target final yield of 5.5 gal, with an O.G. of ~1.055-1.070 (the higher the better), ~60 IBUs, ~30 SRM (higher is fine, should be black. hints of other colors, i.e. red, brown, etc., is fine also)

Dry hop with 2 oz Cascade (and maybe 1 oz Citra) for as long as desired or until clarity is achieved, during secondary fermentation (could dry hop in the keg using a bag of whole cone/leaf instead/also)

Target F.G. of ~1.015-1.017 (the lower the better, as long as it’s over 1.010!!), ~ABV of 5-7%
 
I'd probably bitter with something other than cascade.

Move your bittering addition to 60 mi.

Ive never used chocolate rye, so cant comment on that. Carafa special is a typical ingredient in black IPA's, you may want to consider it.

Id say in general a good start that needs a little tweaking.
 
A few small things that came to mind:

1) I've never mashed for more than 60 minutes, and have read here that it isn't necessary to go longer.
2) Why do you want to boil for 90 minutes if you aren't adding hops until the 45 min mark?
3) I agree with Xpertskir that something other than Cascade for bittering and moving it to 60 min would be a good idea.

I am certainly not a pro, but just my 2 cents. Good luck!
 
I've heard that increased mash time(I guess b/c it gives starches longer to break down to sugars) as well as increased boil time (I guess b/c of decrease in batch yeild) can raise effciency. Since my grain bill is limited by the size of my equipment and I don't know my brewhouse efficiency, all the efficiency I can get is needed to reach my desired ABV.

As for the hop schedule are the suggestions to use a hop other than Cascade and a longer boil b/c the lower alpha content of cascade, or b/c of the flavor produced? I really like the grapefruit quality of cascade. Does this only come out in flavor/aroma boil or dry hopping?

I've also heard a suggested IBU range is to take the last two digits of the OG and make that the target IBU (I guess before any dry hopping?). Ex.- my target OG is 1.058 (based on 70% efficiency, not sure my bewhouse efficiency) so 58 IBUs
 
If you are targeting a pre-boil volume of 6 gallons and boiling for 90 minutes there is no way you will get 5.5 gallons in the primary. Assuming boil off of 1 gallon per hour you have to expect a loss of 1.5 gallons minimum-something is not right.

My system requires 9 gallon pre-boil to achieve 6.25 gallon batch and this account for boil off and all losses as an example.
 
That's great info! I didn't use a calculation for boil off, only IBU, Gravities, SRM, etc. I can only fit 6.5 gal in my kettle, so I guess the yeild will be closer to 5 gal. But that should also raise my OG, which in this case is a good thing.

Thanks!
 
Usually the distributors of hops will provide a description and purpose of each hop, whether it is bittering, aroma, or dual-purpose. I've never seen a company describe the Cascade variety as bittering, or even dual purpose, always aroma/flavor. I typically use higher AA hops like Columbus for my bittering additions.

I'm a bit confused by this part of your recipe: "90 min wort boil, start hop boil after 45 min".

Are you boiling for 90 min or 45? From my experience, the only reason to boil for 90 minutes would be if you were adding hops at the 90 min mark.
 
I meant I would boil the wort for 45 min, then start adding hops, so the total boil time would be 90 min, but the hops would only boil for 45. This gives higher efficiency* (b/c of higher OG), without the continued release of alpha acids from longer hop boil time.

*The increased boil time supposedly will increase effciency, I guess b/c of decrease in batch yeild. Just using logic here: longer boil=less water -> less water=higher sugar to water ratio -> higher sugar to water ratio=higher OG, thus higher efficiency.
 
I think I understand now. Since your equipment is not capable of handling more grain, you are boiling down your wort to make it more concentrated. Makes sense. Not necessarily more "efficient", but you yield a higher efficiency with the end result.
 
Yes, exactly right!
Gravity calculators will show it as an efficiency increase though, hence why I originally posted "more efficient"; your description is more accurate however.
 
I have decided to change the hop schedule. It's not a big difference but it does increase the IBUs, to a range more closely associated with IPAs, where as before I was probably closer to an APA. Changes:

60 min bittering hop boil (2 oz of Cascade)

45 min bittering hop boil (1oz. Centennial)

15 min flavor hop boil (2 oz Cascade), with a teaspoon Irish Moss

5 min flavor/aroma hop partial boil, cut heat source before adding (1 oz Centennial and 1 oz Simcoe or Australian Stella or Zythos- which ever I can get)

I'm still not convinced to change the main bittering hop from cascade, but I did raise the boil time to 60 min, add 1 oz centennial for 45 min and increase the final hop par-boil time from 2 min to 5 min. Using the same IBU calculator I used before, it went from ~60 IBUs to ~80 IBUs.

Hopefully the extra IBUs will balance the roasted/chocolate malt profile I'm expecting without overpowering the spiciness of the rye.

Just FYI New Belgium Ranger is 70 IBUs and I really like it, specifically the grapefruit notes from the cascade ( gotta be from cascade dry hopping). I'm not trying to copy that particular hop profile just using it as an example.
 
IMO, there is really no reason to boil for 90 minutes with your grain bill and 60 minutes is plenty of time for your mash as well. If you were using a lot of Pilsner malt which can create a lot of DMS, 90 would be preferable. Also, with the amount of darker grains you have be sure your Ph is in the 5ish range. Astringency and tannin extraction can be an issue if Ph is high and you sparge over 170F.

If you are using software be sure your equipment is set up properly to calculate all of your volumes correct. You need to be sure you are properly calculating grain absorption, tun dead space, kettle loss etc. so you get proper efficiency and volume into your primary:)
 
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