Keggles with poor welds

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Talloak

Talloak

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Joined
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Location
Austin, TX
I picked up three keggles for a total of $90. They each have the top cut out. Two have fittings welded in, one does not. The one which does not was used as a brew kettle, the other two with fittings have never been used. The welds don't look so amazing, but I bought them anyway - impulse. The fittings appear to be 1/2" brass.

This should be a link to a picasa web album to view pics of the three keggles and the welds.

Picasa Web Albums - Talloak - Pictures

Are they ok? Was it worth the money? Or are they trash? Can they be 'fixed' somehow?
 
I'm pretty sure it's stainless because you can't weld brass. You're just seeing some heat discoloration. Use a little sandpaper on the nipple to see if it turns silver. It's a sloppy weld with back sugaring like crazy but if it's strong and leak free, use it.
 
I'm not liking the looks of the inside weld. Looks ruff and a nice place for critters to grow. I'm no super welder, but it looks like the welder had to much heat on the keg vise the fitting which is thicker. I would bet this welding was done with a MIG welder vise a TIG. With a TIG you can control the location of the heat way better. Just my .02
 
That back sugaring is pretty common for even the TIG guys that don't back gas or use flux. Unless it's a fermenter, the nooks will be throughly heat sanitized by the boil. I don't know about you guys but I run my kettle at 212F for an hour or more.
 
While I personally wouldn't have bought them, as long as they don't leak they should be fine. I'm still amazed at how many people are freaked out about critters until AFTER the boil. I agree with bobby M boiling for an hour will kill anything unless you're using a rotting dear carcass for a mash tun.
 
+1 to Bobby M comments

The welds are a little rough, but for $90 it's a good deal. 60 minutes @ 212 degrees will kill any nastiest. You could clean them up and have them tig welded, remove most of the goobers from the first attempt with some kind of abrasive it should not contain any carbon or iron oxide. Then have an experienced tig welder make them pretty.
 
Great. I'm encouraged by these comments. I'm not a real picky person, so long as they hold water, excuse my pun, I think I am going to use them. I was going to sell the two with fittings to a fellow homebrew club member at the cost I bought them and keep the one without fittings for myself. I just wanted to snatch them up so someone I knew would benefit, if not myself.

So $90 for three keggles, good deal!
 
Skins_Brew said:
What cause the sugaring and does the sugaring in anyway reduce the stainless properties of stainless steel?
Click to expand...

Air, is screws with the grain structure of the base material and can add carbon to low carbon steel witch may cause it to loos some of it's most important properties. This is the same reason you use an inert gas (Argon) while Tig (Heliarc/ Tungsten Inert Gas) welding stainless. If you are Mig (Metal Inert Gas) welding best results come from some type of He/Ar/Co2 mixture.

Your best bet is to purge with Ar or apply some type of stainless steel specific flux (Solar Flux?) that will displace the O2 from the heat effected zone on the back side of the weld. I'm not a metallurgist nor a welding engineer, only a former fabricator that now sells for a welding manufacture.

I believe that Yuri Rage has a couple of posts with pictures on HBT, and may have a video or two on youtube if you are interested.


Cheers...:mug:
 
I think a welder might be my next big purchase later this year. I dont plan on welding kegs or anything right off the bat but I am pretty damn interested in welding lately. I have a oxy-acetylene rig right now and have been messing around with it. I finally managed to get a pretty strong bond on some bed frame the other day. Not sure if I was gas welding or brazing though. I guess brazing since I was using a bronze brazing rod. I made some decent joints before but they all failed the 'drop it on concrete to test its strength test.' The small piece I made the other day passed the concrete test numerous times, even with me throwing it as hard as I could. I was stoked.
 
Skins_Brew said:
I think a welder might be my next big purchase later this year. I dont plan on welding kegs or anything right off the bat but I am pretty damn interested in welding lately. I have a oxy-acetylene rig right now and have been messing around with it. I finally managed to get a pretty strong bond on some bed frame the other day. Not sure if I was gas welding or brazing though. I guess brazing since I was using a bronze brazing rod. I made some decent joints before but they all failed the 'drop it on concrete to test its strength test.' The small piece I made the other day passed the concrete test numerous times, even with me throwing it as hard as I could. I was stoked.
Click to expand...

:off:

When brazing cleanliness is your friend, remove all paint and debris. You have to use brazing flux (borax soap works well in a pinch) or flux covered brazing rod. If you want to oxy-fuel weld you could purchase some mild steel welding rod (70S2) in 3/32 diameter or go full out "Hillbilly" (I can use this term because am one) and resort to the coat hanger filler metal and borax soap technique. If you decide to buy a welder later on I would be happy to help you out with your selection.

Cheers...:mug:
 
So, could the sugaring have negatively affected my new keggles? Potential for rusting or other problems in the future? Should I be putting money into these?
 
Talloak said:
So, could the sugaring have negatively affected my new keggles? Potential for rusting or other problems in the future? Should I be putting money into these?
Click to expand...

It's a possibility, I would recommend putting some water in your keggles for a day or two drain and let dry. Then see if you have any unwanted oxidation. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and germaphobe. With the deal you got on the keggels, IMO it would be worth the coin to make them cosmetically/biologically sound. But that's just me.

:rockin:
 
Talloak said:
So, could the sugaring have negatively affected my new keggles? Potential for rusting or other problems in the future? Should I be putting money into these?
Click to expand...


The sugar is not going to cause you any problems. You can do what is called stainless steel pacification. Pacification is "the removal of free iron particles or iron compounds from the stainless steel surface. The easy way to treat it is a stainless steel wire brush and barkeepers. Just scrub the dickens with a paste of BKF and the brush. This will be the closest to pacification without using an acid.

I always back flow all SS welds with argon but I will admit I have one keg thats about 20 years old that I was too drunk or just forgot to turn on the back flow. Its sugar on the backside and still in use today.

Just in future if you need sanitary tig welding done just ask to see the welders work and ask if he knows what back flowing a weld is. Or just stop by the shed and pull a pint and we might get around to some welding.

Dominus Vobiscum

Swagman:cool:
 
Those welds look like they were done with a stick welder with steel rod not stainless rod, kind of sick looking.
If they were mine I would keep all three, cut them off and start over but this time use stainless couplings hence room to open up the holes bigger as well clean down to base stainless. Far a welders use Tig even with just Argon works with stainless no need for fancy gases hell my custom stainless fab shop friend only uses Argon with marine railings in boat shows. He has a 250 Miller Synchrowave for his Tig Welding. Another friend also has Miller Synchrowave 250 with Millers 3A tower wet torch cooler, heavy duty pedal and torch all in good condition a complete system ready to weld. All you need is your own gas bottle, $2K in the S.F bay area vs checking the new price of a 250 Miller Synchrowave, adding the cooler tower and piecing a welder together. Way more than this complete $2K unit that is a workhorse of a welder. I have a Miller 350 Sync hence no intrest in it, it's a steal. PM if intrested. Sorry not on the 4 sale section moderators might spank my pee pee mentioning this.
 
While the welds are probably sub-par, you're getting overly concerned with them. While we all prefer "sanitary welds," the truth is, this equipment lives on the "hot side." There are few to no sanitation concerns with the mash tun and boil kettle since the wort will be hot enough to kill any infectious creatures. Just make sure that the welds are water tight, and perhaps use the passivation techniques described above to minimize any long term corrosion problems.
 
BrewBeemer said:
Those welds look like they were done with a stick welder with steel rod not stainless rod, kind of sick looking.
If they were mine I would keep all three, cut them off and start over but this time use stainless couplings hence room to open up the holes bigger as well clean down to base stainless. Far a welders use Tig even with just Argon works with stainless no need for fancy gases hell my custom stainless fab shop friend only uses Argon with marine railings in boat shows. He has a 250 Miller Synchrowave for his Tig Welding. Another friend also has Miller Synchrowave 250 with Millers 3A tower wet torch cooler, heavy duty pedal and torch all in good condition a complete system ready to weld. All you need is your own gas bottle, $2K in the S.F bay area vs checking the new price of a 250 Miller Synchrowave, adding the cooler tower and piecing a welder together. Way more than this complete $2K unit that is a workhorse of a welder. I have a Miller 350 Sync hence no intrest in it, it's a steal. PM if intrested. Sorry not on the 4 sale section moderators might spank my pee pee mentioning this.
Click to expand...

I respectful disagree, if you look a the second or third image, one of the interior shots, there is a piece of mig wire stuck to the nipple. And secondly if any of the material were made of mild/carbon steel the would be showing some singes of oxidation by now (rust).

As for the "fancy gas" it for the mig process as I stated. Stainless has a higher resistance to electricity witch makes it more difficult to weld with than mild steel. If your welder doesn't have inductance control or pulse capabilities the helium enables you to make a much flatter bead with improved penetration profile.


Cheers...:mug:
 
bad67z said:
I respectful disagree, if you look a the second or third image, one of the interior shots, there is a piece of mig wire stuck to the nipple. And secondly if any of the material were made of mild/carbon steel the would be showing some singes of oxidation by now (rust).

As for the "fancy gas" it for the mig process as I stated. Stainless has a higher resistance to electricity witch makes it more difficult to weld with than mild steel. If your welder doesn't have inductance control or pulse capabilities the helium enables you to make a much flatter bead with improved penetration profile.


Cheers...:mug:
Click to expand...

I didn't take a second interior look not alone see Mig wire sticking out. Dummy
me. It still is a start with 3 kegs for that price just needs a rebuild.
Miller Synchrowave (1991) 350 fully loaded except spot weld in the shop for my personal hobby use this includes pulser & wet torch. I have 100% helium in 260 cu/ft bottles owner owned (2 for $30) but for party balloons. The Argon / Helium Tig mix days are not needed for extra heat with the 350 Synchrowave like I needed with the old Hobart Beta 250 w/spoolgun for my company welding years ago on light poles. Sold it then got the 350 Miller, later the 251 w/30A spool gun. All 100% free as my share of scrap copper paid for all the welders as well 280 cu/ft owner owned bottles Argon and C25 plus a Hypertherm Max 20 for $125 almost brand new at an antique estate sale. I got what I like at welder number 10 and 11, Max 20 needs to be upgraded higher amperage someday as my copper cash was $86K off one job alone.
 
Don't mean to jack thread, but I was wondering if stainless steel kegs could be oxy welded? I have heard of oxywelding stainless steel, but have not done it, I plan on doing it using the cut out part of the top for filler metal, i found a guy that is selling some kegs for $10 a pop!
 
explude said:
Don't mean to jack thread, but I was wondering if stainless steel kegs could be oxy welded? I have heard of oxywelding stainless steel, but have not done it, I plan on doing it using the cut out part of the top for filler metal, i found a guy that is selling some kegs for $10 a pop!
Click to expand...

You could silver solder the coupler to the keg.
 
Question: While adding a welded spigot to a kettle, is it imperative to weld the inside? Seems like the outside weld should make it water tight.
 
Yuri_Rage said:
While the welds are probably sub-par, you're getting overly concerned with them. While we all prefer "sanitary welds," the truth is, this equipment lives on the "hot side." There are few to no sanitation concerns with the mash tun and boil kettle since the wort will be hot enough to kill any infectious creatures. Just make sure that the welds are water tight, and perhaps use the passivation techniques described above to minimize any long term corrosion problems.
Click to expand...

+1 no doubt! No problem at all, go with it. If they leak get a tig torch and wash the pin hole shut and you are off and running. I paid that for my one kettle. I think it was a greay buy!
 
I weld just outside on all applications on a keg. (arms too short and body too fat for inside lol) but with the wall thickness and back flow the penetration of the outside the weld bead does penetrate the inside some. With Tig welding you want your tolerance's from part to part tight. That's why I take a 1/2 inch coupler which will run approx a few thousand's over one inch and turn down half its length to one inch. I can use a one inch hole saw and have a tight fitting coupler in the hole. Makes tig welding a lot easier and cleaner, back flowing the weld area with argon you will have no rough areas inside.

I also use a plasma for cutting it make's life a lot easier. The only thing I do different is I fill the kegs with water keeps the blow by from sticking inside the kegs. Which can be a pain to get off.

Need any weld or cut stop by the Shed and you can use the cutter and Tig just bring some thing for my dry throat. Lol:mug:

Dominus Vobiscum

Swagman:cool:
 
Sorry too far away i'm on the left coast within 10 miles of that big ocean.
If the fully loaded 1992 Miller 350 Synchrowave Tig can't help me i'll sell
everything then go postal and start drinking Coors.
 
BrewBeemer said:
Sorry too far away i'm on the left coast within 10 miles of that big ocean.
If the fully loaded 1992 Miller 350 Synchrowave Tig can't help me i'll sell
everything then go postal and start drinking Coors.
Click to expand...

That's a good unit myself 180 Square wave. Do you do a lot of stainless Tig welding? If not only thing is practice, practice, practice, and Patience.

From the center Coast

Dominus Vobiscum

Swagman:cool:
 
Not anymore the past 15 months since two required spinal surgeries 8-12 month recoveries on the mend others required in my future. I over did it on a custom exhaust system with Mr. Miller 251 in a hurry vs Tig doing custom exhaust on my son's BMW, that alone required 4-5 days recovery pain. I'm screwed this sucks.
I still would of cut off those nipples, dressed then opened up the holes and Tigged in SS couplings, good to go.
 
I had a DIY stick welded with SS rod fermenter (first attempt with fermenters) made with nasty welds on the inside just within reach to weld not dress just above the dump valve. I always flashed the bottom of the cone and weld area with a weed burning propane torch until I hit 300 plus degrees with the infrared gun and never had a infection problem during 4 1/2 years of use. This POS has been handed down twice more last I heard and still in use. Propane torch sanitizing process required before each use.
 
One way to fix an imperfect weld in stanless is to clean the area with a mild acid, appy flux and silver solder the inperfect areas

Talloak said:
I picked up three keggles for a total of $90. They each have the top cut out. Two have fittings welded in, one does not. The one which does not was used as a brew kettle, the other two with fittings have never been used. The welds don't look so amazing, but I bought them anyway - impulse. The fittings appear to be 1/2" brass.

This should be a link to a picasa web album to view pics of the three keggles and the welds.

Picasa Web Albums - Talloak - Pictures

Are they ok? Was it worth the money? Or are they trash? Can they be 'fixed' somehow?
Click to expand...
 
One way to fix an imperfect weld in stanless is to clean the area with a mild acid, apply flux and silver solder the inperfect areas

Talloak said:
I picked up three keggles for a total of $90. They each have the top cut out. Two have fittings welded in, one does not. The one which does not was used as a brew kettle, the other two with fittings have never been used. The welds don't look so amazing, but I bought them anyway - impulse. The fittings appear to be 1/2" brass.

This should be a link to a picasa web album to view pics of the three keggles and the welds.

Picasa Web Albums - Talloak - Pictures

Are they ok? Was it worth the money? Or are they trash? Can they be 'fixed' somehow?
Click to expand...
 

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