Mash schedule

I've got 3lbs malted millet and 3lbs malted buckwheat for a partial mash with candi syrup, honey, sorghum extract. Anyone got ideas on a mash schedule for the grains?

The buckwheat should be cereal-mashed first (boiled for 10-15 minutes, or at least held around 200°F for that time). Then add some enough cold/cool water to get the temp down to about 123°F. Add the crushed millet, hold for 15 minutes (letting the temp drop to about 120°F), then bump up to 135°F for another 15. Then another rest at 145°F for 20-30 minutes, up to 158°F for an hour, then mash out around 180°F. If you want to really hedge your bets, you can drop the temp again to 150°F and add some amylase. But if you're just doing a partial mash, then it's probably not a big deal.

Sweet! Thanks. I found a mash schedule for just buckwheat from the institute of brewing (ill post it when I find the link) but it was a very lengthy article and I wanted something straight forward that accounted for the millet.

igliashon - interested to know why the differences between buckwheat and millet schedule. I have two partial mash test batches in the secondary right now and I used a version of the following schedule: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f240/gluten-free-saison-376455/
The millet and the buckwheat mashes behaved very differently.

Did you use that mash schedule (the one you linked to) for both the millet and the buckwheat?

I am basically just mashing using the same temperature steps recommended for the Promalt I was using. I've seen sources suggesting that one can make beer using buckwheat without cereal mashing or adding enzymes, but I definitely don't observe what looks like gelatinization until the temperature gets close to boiling. Additionally, Twila from Grouse has told me that she believes buckwheat needs to be cereal mashed first. And yet, most malt analyses I've read on buckwheat suggest it has higher DP and higher extract potential than millet malts, which is very weird.

Frankly, I'm not convinced there's a benefit to using buckwheat malt at all. I haven't noticed that it contributes much of a flavor, it may even have less of one than unmalted actually. I've used it in a lot of beers and never really been able to pick it out; it is easily dominated by just about every other ingredient.

Also, I've been using pale millet malt from Grouse, not CMC; just got some of their red millet pale malt and want to see how it compares. I'm wondering if Grouse's pale millet (which is made from white proso millet) isn't simply a superior product, more fully-modified or something.

Buckwheat has a very high gelantinization point. It has a very high amount of soluble protein. I have never gotten high yield or flavor from buckwheat. I really don't think it has much DP. All in all, it is kind of pointless. It seems to add a little something but, not much.

White millet has less hull than red millet. Should give a higher ppg. I've noticed a 7 point jump between the two with the same maltster.

I used the same mash schedule for both batches. Pretty much the same as the link except for I used a single hold at the end in my mash tun at 153F rather than 140,147,153 for 30 minutes each like Powmonster used. Although the efficiency was not great, the millet sparge never got stuck. The Buckwheat was so thick and gooey that I had difficulty collecting mash water for the mash out step after the protein rest. When I went to collect the wart, it ran for about a quart total in the first recirculation and then it got hopelessly stuck. Had to hand transfer to a mesh bag and drain the wart out that way. I ended up collecting 3 gallons of wart but it was very very painful!

I still have some pale millet malt so may try your schedule in a mesh bag for that.

I purchased some millet and buckwheat crystal from CMC thinking that next time I would just steep before the boil.

EvanLouis said:

Sweet! Thanks. I found a mash schedule for just buckwheat from the institute of brewing (ill post it when I find the link) but it was a very lengthy article and I wanted something straight forward that accounted for the millet.

Click to expand...

The IB article for mashing a full Buckwheat grain bill can be read here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2006.tb00708.x/abstract

They also have done an article on mashing 100% Proso Millet: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2010.tb00410.x/abstract

From the articles, Buckwheat can be mashed using a multi-rest infusion schedule (they even mentioned that decocting a portion of the mash wasn't worth the effort), while a 100% Millet mash benefits from a modified decoction method to gelatinize a portion of the mash before continuing with an infusion schedule.

I found both articles to be interesting, but the Buckwheat one was an easier read (for me) and did a nice job of laying out all the variables used during the mash, including crush and grist:liquor ratios. I would recommend reading both.

Craig

I have read them before. They have a lot of good info. However, the crush they use on the buckwheat is very, very fine. This lowers the gelantinization point. If we tried it that fine, it would be an instant stuck sparge. Its good if you have a bunch of lab equipment.

I would like to see an experiment though.....

Ok, now I am at a loss of what I should try next. The article seems to recommend the following:

15 min at 35°C (95°F)
15 min at 45°C (113°F)
40 min at 65°C (149°F)
30 min at 72°C (162°F)
10 min at 78°C (173°F)

From my test batch this is a recipe for a pile of goo but I am willing to try.
I don't remember them saying that they used extra enzyme additions.

If boiling at the beginning gives me less "goo" then I will try that first with my next buckwheat batch and add enzyme after.

Remember, grist:liquor ratio is important. It apparently lowers gelantinisation temperature. The ideal is 1:4. I calculate this at 2 qt/lb.

This is what the study shows. Not sure if I agree but, I'm no grain analyst.

I will try it. I only have a corona grain mill so I will get the grind that I get. I figure I will put amylase in at the beginning, use a bag rather than taking a chance on the cooler with manifold and I will sparge with 180F water to see if I can separate the sugars.

The buckwheat article did mention that the crush could be .5mm without losing too many fermentables. I would also think that adding rice hulls would help create a filter bed to avoid a stuck sparge. My impression when reading the articles was that the buckwheat experiment was more of a "real world" experiment, whereas the millet experiment was more of a lab experiment.

Either way, I think it's worth a try - after all, barley mash schedules are based off ideal conditions...

I haven't yet experimented with an all grain GF wort, so this is still academic for me, but I intend to try this as closely as my setup will allow.

Will definitely use rice hulls!
Sort of hijacked this thread but it still fits the original topic – hope the originator does not mind.

I read the buckwheat article another time and want to bounce a few things off others before brewing the next batch. I have some new grain arriving Wednesday.

Grain bill will be something like this (all CMC grain):
3 lb pale Buckwheat
1.5 lb pale Millet
0.75 lb Munich Buckwheat
0.75 lb Crystal Millet

The point is there is a large percentage of buckwheat because I like it. Based on my previous millet and buckwheat batches, I think millet is more forgiving so I am tailoring the mash schedule to the needs of the buckwheat per the buckwheat paper.

1: The article states that it would benefit from more enzymes so I will add enzymes.

2: The paper talks about left over starch in the “Different procedures” section. Since my buckwheat test batch had a LOT of leftover starch this is a concern to me. They discuss testing with a single-decoction procedure where a portion was boiled for 10 minutes prior to the mash procedure. They say that it helped with leftover starch but lowered the enzyme activity. Since I will be adding additional enzymes I think this is not an issue.

So here is my planned schedule splitting grain in the beginning:

Bring 2 lb pale buckwheat with 4 quarts water to boil for 10 min.

Start rest of mash here (4 lb grain with 6 quarts water):
15 min at 35°C (95°F) <- add amylase enzyme
15 min at 45°C (113°F)

Combine boiled buckwheat mash with rest of mash
40 min at 65°C (149°F)
30 min at 72°C (162°F)
10 min at 78°C (173°F)

With some other water infusions to control temp, I calculate I will end up 1:3.5 grist to water ratio for the 149F hold but reach the specified 1:4 on the way to the 162F hold and then just heat from there to get to next hold point.

Note: In the end, this is not much different then Igliashon&#8217;s schedule posted in this thread, just different hold temps and he would boil all the buckwheat. Might just do that or test both.

Thoughts?

Brewed this yesterday using BIAB method. I collected 3.5 gal wart at 1.026 gravity (sample cooled to 80F). Not sure what efficiency that is because I don&#8217;t know what the maximum levels are for buckwheat and millet. It is probably mediocre at best.

Had a lot of trouble boiling the buckwheat. It was so thick it boiled at about 180F and some charred to the bottom of the kettle.

Since I will probably always use partial mash, I am starting to think that these complicated stepped mashes with multiple hold points etc. are not worth the extra time and effort. All grain brewers live and die on their efficiency, but I will be making up the difference no matter what.

I think from now on I am going to go for simple and consistent. Just an infusion to get a long hold somewhere around 150F and mash out 170 to 180F. Have to get a better process of cereal mashing the buckwheat first.