Bottle filling, to the top or leave space?

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Dave the Brewer

Dave the Brewer

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Just what it says, I'm just curious what the recommended/favored way to bottle. Do you leave some space like commercial brands or fill it to the top. I have read some where it was recommended to fill to the top. I'm not completely sure if its true or if I even read it right.
 
You absolutely need to leave a little space at the top for proper carbonation. As Homebrewer 99 said, get a bottle filler (mine has a gravity valve not a spring). It makes bottling easy and if you fill the bottle to the top when you pull the filler out it leaves a perfect headspace.
 
If you leave too little, you will not get sufficient carbonation. If you leave too much, you'll likely get overcarbonation.

With that said, IowaStateFan, do you REALLY fill to within an inch of the top, or are you just guessing? Commercial beers are often 2"-2.5" of headspace, and I wouldn't say I fill DRASTICALLY more than they do. I just ran a simple test, filling a bottle and standard bottling wand (with gravity valve) with water, and when I removed the wand there was 1.75" of head space. That's a pretty significant difference from the 1" you have quoted - if you are actually filling to within 1" of the top, I would say you are overfilling.

For example, the bottles in this picture are filled about the same as the one I just ran the test with, and should be around 1.75" headspace:
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=4175&catid=searchresults&searchid=1888
And unless someone disagrees, I'd say those are properly filled.
 
Funkenjäger said:
If you leave too little, you will not get sufficient carbonation. If you leave too much, you'll likely get overcarbonation.

With that said, IowaStateFan, do you REALLY fill to within an inch of the top, or are you just guessing? Commercial beers are often 2"-2.5" of headspace, and I wouldn't say I fill DRASTICALLY more than they do. I just ran a simple test, filling a bottle and standard bottling wand (with gravity valve) with water, and when I removed the wand there was 1.75" of head space. That's a pretty significant difference from the 1" you have quoted - if you are actually filling to within 1" of the top, I would say you are overfilling.

For example, the bottles in this picture are filled about the same as the one I just ran the test with, and should be around 1.75" headspace:
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=4175&catid=searchresults&searchid=1888
And unless someone disagrees, I'd say those are properly filled.
Click to expand...


I agree with everything in your second paragraph. But I think your first part is backward. The more headspace there is for co2 to come out of solution into the lower your carbonation levels in the fluid, the less headspace the quicker equilibrium pressure is reached and the more carbonated the beer.

The only time I'd fill to the very top was if I was filling a growler from a tap and wanted to keep as much co2 in solution as possible to keep the beer from getting flat.
 
Honestly, I've never bothered measuring it. I use a bottling wand and fill the bottles until they're full. When I pull the wand out the level falls leaving a headspace. I was just estimating off the top of my head when I said an inch. The headspace in my bottles is a bit less than those in the picture you posted.
 
camiller said:
I agree with everything in your second paragraph. But I think your first part is backward. The more headspace there is for co2 to come out of solution into the lower your carbonation levels in the fluid, the less headspace the quicker equilibrium pressure is reached and the more carbonated the beer.

The only time I'd fill to the very top was if I was filling a growler from a tap and wanted to keep as much co2 in solution as possible to keep the beer from getting flat.
Click to expand...
There's a difference between bottling pre-carbonated beer and bottling flat beer with priming sugar. Yes, if it's pre-carbonated you want as little head space as possible so less CO2 goes into the headspace.

But the amount of headspace affects things during bottle fermentation of the priming sugar, I believe it is due to the yeast being sensitive to the pressure in the bottle. Pressure builds more quickly with less head space, and more slowly with more head space. In my experience with my first few batches (before I started filling them more carefully/consistently), this was the case - overfilled bottles were more flat, and underfilled bottles were overcarbonated.

Yes, I know it seems counterintuitive, but I know I've read it some places before, and come across some supporting evidence in the past, but I don't have it at hand now, I'll see what I can dig up.
Best I can dig up so far:
malkore said:
lack of headspace can cause gushers too, but if you use a bottle filling wand, it'll displace the right amount of beer to give you good headspace.
Click to expand...
 
Hi everyone!

This is my first post, and I actually arrived at this forum while researching the counter-intuitive point that has been made. I realize that this thread is a few years old now but I'm delighted that it seems to address my concern.

As a hyper-curious mechanical engineer/designer, I have already queried all the other staff in the dept about the physics of this- including another fellow brewer- and we had a unanimous agreement (so far) that less air in a bottle ought to result in a higher carbonation due to the fact that co2 produced has nowhere else to go and would only serve to raise the pressure. I guess we oversimplified the chemistry at work in a beer bottle, however- and the general consensus seems to suggest that the opposite is true, while rarely going into an explanation of how/why this would occur.

Anyway- thanks for the info, and if anyone has any more scientific explanation to this or would just like to clarify the point, I'd be very interested to learn more.
Thanks in advance for any insights!

-Kevin
 
SalukiKev- I just came across this article and I was curious if you ever came up with an answer? I have been having a mild overcarbonation problem, they are not gushers but more carbonation than should be. I was going to experiment with more/less head space. Me and my uncle make batches together on my equipment. I ferment at my house, he at his.
((I have a little more over the fermenting temps and try and stick to 70, floating down to 65. he just puts his in the basement, near the furnace. trying to not be too off topic, but this might be important info of relevance))
So that being said, we use the same technique for bottling except he has a larger bottling wand. This leaves about .25 inches more head space than on my bottles. I was interested if this might related to my issue. My thought is that when you bottle, the air and beer are same pressure, same temp. Wouldn't the pressure in the whole bottle (beer and air) rise at the same rate? As in the co2 would dissolve linear to the air pressure increase? But by lowering the temp, that causes an increase in the beer being dissolved into the liquid (beer)...
I've read so many things, on so many things, I'm not sure what to think!! lol

Saluki-SIUC?
 
hey- I never did get an answer other than some semi-ambiguous posts to the forum. It does sound like the consensus is that under filling a bottle will result in over-carbonated beer. Its very counter intuitive to my understanding of physics, but it seems that is the case. I would rather understand why, but I haven't found the answer yet. My best speculation is that overfilling the bottles creates conditions that aren't conducive to proper fermentation/carbonation, but I still would like a better explanation. If you ever find out, let me know!

and yes- SIUC! go dawgs! :rockin:
BigJoeBrews said:
SalukiKev- I just came across this article and I was curious if you ever came up with an answer? I have been having a mild overcarbonation problem, they are not gushers but more carbonation than should be. I was going to experiment with more/less head space. Me and my uncle make batches together on my equipment. I ferment at my house, he at his.
((I have a little more over the fermenting temps and try and stick to 70, floating down to 65. he just puts his in the basement, near the furnace. trying to not be too off topic, but this might be important info of relevance))
So that being said, we use the same technique for bottling except he has a larger bottling wand. This leaves about .25 inches more head space than on my bottles. I was interested if this might related to my issue. My thought is that when you bottle, the air and beer are same pressure, same temp. Wouldn't the pressure in the whole bottle (beer and air) rise at the same rate? As in the co2 would dissolve linear to the air pressure increase? But by lowering the temp, that causes an increase in the beer being dissolved into the liquid (beer)...
I've read so many things, on so many things, I'm not sure what to think!! lol

Saluki-SIUC?
Click to expand...
 
I know this is an old post and there may be others, but this one came up in my search. I believe the amount of sugar and contitioning temperatures have more to do with how much carbonation you end up with, than the amount space left in the bottle does. I've had half full 22oz bottles of "dregs" beer condition with just the right amount of carbonation. Never have tried filling all the way to the top though. Interested as I may be loosing some of my dry hop aroma due to oxygen exposure and would like more info on oxygen absorbing caps, better bottle fillers (no foam generted from spring type filler), etc.
 

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