Celis White Clone

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EamusCatuli

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Hey all, im looking for an accurate Celis White clone, I already have a Hoegaarden clone that I can fall back on, but personally im a Celis White guy. I searched for this already, but the only thing I could find was a recipe with Cascade as an aroma hop, which just doesn't seem right to me.

If anyone has anything please let me know!

Thanks
 
The recipe I have calls for cascade as well. Celis is an American version of a Belgian beer after all. If you dont like cascade (I cant imagine why) try Centennial or use East Kent/Saaz like the Hoe.
 
Celis White... Man when I was living in Athens Georgia I LOVED that brew. I havent even thought about it since then. I will have to look for it around here. Thanks for the thought.
Cheers
JJ
 
I have this one in my library. Never tried it though...


Celis White Clone
by Julie Froehlich


This beer is a delicious ale brewed with malted wheat, barley, and oats. The style is
characterized by the flavors of coriander and orange peel. (5 gallons)

Ingredients:

• 6 lbs. wheat malt extract
• 1 lb. Belgian candi sugar (clear)
• 1 lb. oat flakes
• 1 oz. crushed coriander
• 1 oz. sweet orange peel
• 1 oz. Curacao orange peel
• 2 oz. Crystal hops pellets (3.5% alpha acid): 1 oz. for 60 min., 1 oz. at end of
boil
• White Labs pitchable Belgian Wit yeast
• 3/4 cup corn sugar

Step by Step:

Put oat flakes into a grain bag. Add 1 gal. of water and bring temperature to 155° F. Turn
off heat and let oats steep for 30 min. Remove bag and drain completely. Stir in malt
extract and candi sugar. Add enough water to bring to 2 gal. Bring to a boil. Total boil is
60 min. Add 1 oz. of hops and boil for 50 min. Add orange peel and coriander. Boil 10 min.
more. Turn off heat and add remaining 1 oz. of hops. Steep for 10 min., remove hops, cool,
and transfer to fermenter. Add 3 gal. cold water. Pitch yeast at 75° F.

Ferment at 68° F for 14 days. Prime and bottle. Age 14 days.

 
I have this one in my library. Never tried it though...


Celis White Clone
by Julie Froehlich


This beer is a delicious ale brewed with malted wheat, barley, and oats. The style is
characterized by the flavors of coriander and orange peel. (5 gallons)

Ingredients:

• 6 lbs. wheat malt extract
• 1 lb. Belgian candi sugar (clear)
• 1 lb. oat flakes
• 1 oz. crushed coriander
• 1 oz. sweet orange peel
• 1 oz. Curacao orange peel
• 2 oz. Crystal hops pellets (3.5% alpha acid): 1 oz. for 60 min., 1 oz. at end of
boil
• White Labs pitchable Belgian Wit yeast
• 3/4 cup corn sugar

Step by Step:

Put oat flakes into a grain bag. Add 1 gal. of water and bring temperature to 155° F. Turn
off heat and let oats steep for 30 min. Remove bag and drain completely. Stir in malt
extract and candi sugar. Add enough water to bring to 2 gal. Bring to a boil. Total boil is
60 min. Add 1 oz. of hops and boil for 50 min. Add orange peel and coriander. Boil 10 min.
more. Turn off heat and add remaining 1 oz. of hops. Steep for 10 min., remove hops, cool,
and transfer to fermenter. Add 3 gal. cold water. Pitch yeast at 75° F.

Ferment at 68° F for 14 days. Prime and bottle. Age 14 days.



You got this in AG form?
 
The recipe I have calls for cascade as well. Celis is an American version of a Belgian beer after all. If you dont like cascade (I cant imagine why) try Centennial or use East Kent/Saaz like the Hoe.

I do like cascade, I just figure this beer to be more noble hoppy
 
I dimly recall reading somewhere that Pierre Celis used Cascades in Celis White precisely because it was an American iteration of a Belgian beer. I cannot document that recollection, but I'll try to track it down.

Theoretically speaking, why the hell not? The citrus flavors from the Cascades ought to meld quite well with the orange peel.
 
I plan on using this recipie for my next Wit batch, minus the candi sugar. I like having it around for a lawnmower beer, and don't need the extra alcohol.
 
As the story goes: a milkman revived the popular wit beer of Belgium, only to later sell his brewery,Hoegaarden, to Interbrew. He moved to Texas, started Celis, and the rest is history.
 
Celis Brewery was in Austin. I suspect the local homebrewers around here know a bit about this beer so I'll ask around.

As I recall, to do a Celis clone you need:

- 100% Cascade hops, I believe you should even lightly dry hop the sucker!
- Unmalted wheat makes up 55% of the grist, and 5% is oats, so you need some six row in your grist, maybe a couple of pounds. Using the six row, do a cereal mash (122 for 15, 155 for 15, boil for 15 minutes), dough in the base malt (domestic Pils? 2-row? I don't know) at protein rest temp, and add the boiled cereal mash to raise it to sacc rest temp like you did a decoction. Leave it for a nice long mash, runoff slowly, and boil for 90.
 
Celis Brewery was in Austin. I suspect the local homebrewers around here know a bit about this beer so I'll ask around.

As I recall, to do a Celis clone you need:

- 100% Cascade hops, I believe you should even lightly dry hop the sucker!
- Unmalted wheat makes up 55% of the grist, and 5% is oats, so you need some six row in your grist, maybe a couple of pounds. Using the six row, do a cereal mash (122 for 15, 155 for 15, boil for 15 minutes), dough in the base malt (domestic Pils? 2-row? I don't know) at protein rest temp, and add the boiled cereal mash to raise it to sacc rest temp like you did a decoction. Leave it for a nice long mash, runoff slowly, and boil for 90.

I have never done anything but a single infusion, and am not really sure what a cereal mash is, and ive never done a decoc, I will need to do some research!

-Does anybody have a good decoc brew video / tutorial for this style brew?
 
Cereal mash is just like doing a partial mash on the stove AND a main mash, but a little more complicated still. :) You can think of it as a decoction without "pulling" the decoction, since you dough in the main mash after the cereal mash is completed.

The basic idea is to start with a mini-mash of 2# of 6-row, and all of your unmalted grains. Dough in at 1.5 qt/lb or so at 122, rest for 15-20, raise to 155 for 15-20, then boil it for 15 minutes. You'd do this in a good sized pot, maybe your boil kettle if you don't have another pot big enough.

In the mash tun you strike your remaining malt at 122, and add the cereal mash slowly stirring it, until you get to your sacc rest temp, probably around 149-150. Let the rest of the cereal mash cool off, and when it gets down to the main mash temp add it to the mash to complete saccharification. This step is like returning the decoction to a decoction mash and is illustrated well in Kaiser's video.

After that it's business as usual.

The benefit is you can mash 60% adjuncts and still get decent efficiency. The high percentage of flaked wheat and oats in the grist is what you need to get a true clone.

I've heard of folks doing the cereal mash one day, and then doing the main mash the next day to avoid having a really long brew day, but that sounds like more work since you have to refrigerate the cereal mash overnight and reheat it the next day before adding it to your tun.
 
Huh... Michigan Brewing's website has some info now that they own Celis' original recipe. Cascade and willamette hops. The reviews claim it has citrus hop flavor and aroma. I'm betting the willamette is for bittering then.

They claim 50/50 wheat/malt but still no idea what kind of malt. I'd be inclined to go with domestic pils as the base grist if I don't dig up any more info, because several breweries around here use domestic pils as their base malt.
 
Killer Bee looks like a good start. How about this:

OG: 1.051
FG: 1.007
SRM: 3*
IBU: 25-30
ABV: 5.7%

2lbs 6-row
2lbs Domestic Pilsner
4lbs Winter Wheat
1lb flaked Oats
2oz Acid Malt
.5lb Cane sugar 15min

1oz Willamette 45min
.5oz Cascade 15min
.5oz Cascade Dry Hop
Zest of 1 grapefruit and 2 oranges at flameout
1oz coarsely crushed Indian coriander at flameout
1Tbsp flour @ flamout

Yeast: White Labs 400

Do cereal mash with 6-row, wheat, and oats. Then mash at 150 for 60 min. Add 1lb rice hulls before lautering.

Boil 90 minutes.

Who knows how authentic it will be but I'm sure it will make good beer. :)

EDIT: that recipe works out to 80% efficiency. If yours is lower, increase the malt and wheat accordingly.
I think I'm going to do this recipe this weekend since I have some extra bottles.
 
Radical Brewing has a write-up about this beer followed by a recipe. While the author doesnt' actually come out and call it a clone, he alludes to it.
 
Radical Brewing has a write-up about this beer followed by a recipe. While the author doesnt' actually come out and call it a clone, he alludes to it.

Good catch. The recipe on p207 looks like it will be close to the Celis original. I found that before he sold the brewery, he used Czech Saaz hops. After it was sold the guys in the suits made him change to domestic hops to save money. I haven't seen anything about whether he used imported Pils or domestic early on but you can bet after A/B bought him out he was using domestic Pils.

The "clone" I posted should be close to the one being produced today in Michigan. If you want the Celis original, which will be closer to Hoegaarden, go with the Radical Brewing recipe and use German Pils and German Munich.
 
Awesome help guys, I really appreciate it. Looks like I have a long brew day! Yeah I noticed the White Guy Wit in radical brewing, I will prob. try that recipe.
 
Killer Bee looks like a good start. How about this:

OG: 1.051
FG: 1.007
SRM: 3*
IBU: 25-30
ABV: 5.7%

2lbs 6-row
2lbs Domestic Pilsner
4lbs Winter Wheat
1lb flaked Oats
2oz Acid Malt
.5lb Cane sugar 15min

1oz Willamette 45min
.5oz Cascade 15min
.5oz Cascade Dry Hop
Zest of 1 grapefruit and 2 oranges at flameout
1oz coarsely crushed Indian coriander at flameout
1Tbsp flour @ flamout

Yeast: White Labs 400

Do cereal mash with 6-row, wheat, and oats. Then mash at 150 for 60 min. Add 1lb rice hulls before lautering.

Boil 90 minutes.

Who knows how authentic it will be but I'm sure it will make good beer. :)

EDIT: that recipe works out to 80% efficiency. If yours is lower, increase the malt and wheat accordingly.
I think I'm going to do this recipe this weekend since I have some extra bottles.


Must acid malt be used in decoc/ cereal or can it be added to a normal single infusion?
 
For this clone attempt, is there a sparge at all? I def. see only one lauter from the mix of the cereal mash and main mash....Even in Moshers chapter on his Wit Guy doesnt say anything about a sparge, or volumes of water for that matter! Im assuming 1.3 gallons/ pound of grain for all mashes (main and cereal)
 
On the mash... it depends on how dry you want it. If you mash at 150 for 60-75 minutes 1.3 qt/lb will probably get down to 1.012 or so. If you mash at 1.5 qt/lb, it will probably get down a little more to 1.008-1.010. For a Wit I don't mind some extra body so I will mash at my usual 1.2 qt/lb.

I will go with a double batch sparge to collect 6.75gal and boil 90 because of the Pils malt. Run off slowly and you won't have to worry about a stuck sparge. I always run off at 1/4-1/3 open even when I batch sparge, I do other stuff during the runoff like heat the next round of sparge water since I have an army of tiny sparge pots rather than one large pot. :)
 
Let us know how similar it is to the real Celis. It looks like a really solid recipe.

One more thing... if you go with the Radical Brewing recipe watch the Chamomile. I may throw a pinch into mine if I can find it. The guys in the club told me that when they tried that recipe the .25oz of chamomile he calls for is too much and it ended up tasting like a saison!
 
One more thing... if you go with the Radical Brewing recipe watch the Chamomile. I may throw a pinch into mine if I can find it. The guys in the club told me that when they tried that recipe the .25oz of chamomile he calls for is too much and it ended up tasting like a saison!

Good advice, ill put in .15 or so. Also, is acid malt something you can add at bottling? Isnt it a grain?
 
OK so I am looking back on some old posts and I am wondering if either of you guys brewed this beer? And if so, what did you think? and what would you change?
Come on. Lets hear it.
Cheers
JJ
 
I'll probably end up trying both the radical brewing recipe and the recipe posted by homebrewer 99. Both look excellent to me.

Thanks for posting the recipe homebrewer 99.
Hoegaarden is probably the SWMBO's favourite beer. I like it too of course.
 
OK so I am looking back on some old posts and I am wondering if either of you guys brewed this beer? And if so, what did you think? and what would you change?
Come on. Lets hear it.
Cheers
JJ


I'll probably be brewing at least one of these in the next few weeks. I'll keep you posted on the results.
 
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