Nitrogen

I am thinking of exploring nitrogen dispensing for stouts or experimentation with other ales. I have the idea that I should robably blend co2 and nitro, but i'm not really sure how to do this. If you have experience in using notorgen, can you share your techniques and let me know what additional equipment may be necessary?

Thanks!

Find someone that sells "beer gas". It will already be blended together.

You'll need a faucet on your tap that is made for this as well. A standard faucet won't give you the creamy head that you're looking for.

The blended gas must be what the nitrogen regulators are for - different attachment? So it pretty much gets treated like a seperate system, instead of integrating it into an existing co2 system...then switch out the tap. Simple as that?

There is no integration. A nitro draught system is completely separate from a CO2 system. The gas is different, the regulator is different, and the faucet is different.

You can use pure N2 to serve if you first carbonate the beer to the desired level with CO2, then switch the gas.

a-ha. That makes it pretty simple.

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

i've used pure nitro for dispensing with a picnic tap and it still gave the nice creamy head. it was wonderful.

I have been wondering about this beer gas. If it is a mix of carbon doxide and notrogen, wouldn't the gasses seprate and exit the tank one after another? In other words, how do you know that you are injecting both gasses into the beer instead of just one? Are the gasses just that similar in weight?

AN_TKE said:

I have been wondering about this beer gas. If it is a mix of carbon doxide and notrogen, wouldn't the gasses seprate and exit the tank one after another? In other words, how do you know that you are injecting both gasses into the beer instead of just one? Are the gasses just that similar in weight?

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Take a deep breath. You just inhaled a mixture of nitrogen, oxygen, CO2 and a bunch of other stuff.

Gasses mix pretty well.

i realize our environment is full of mixed gasses, but the phenomenon of co2 settling to the bottom of a brew vessel may also exist within the confines of a pressurized tank of gas. I think intuition could lead you to both conclusions.

Maybe the rdwhahb should be the reset button here - if it works, it works.

AN_TKE said:

i realize our environment is full of mixed gasses, but the phenomenon of co2 settling to the bottom of a brew vessel may also exist within the confines of a pressurized tank of gas. I think intuition could lead you to both conclusions.

Maybe the rdwhahb should be the reset button here - if it works, it works.

Click to expand...

This kind of explains the principles, though it is more related to the gases mixed in the keg:

What is Beer Gas? McDantim Trumix Blender Information Sheet

Here is a little snip stolen from wikipedia:

"Nitrogen is used under high pressure when dispensing dry stouts (such as Guinness) and other creamy beers because it displaces CO2 to form a rich tight head and a less carbonated taste. This makes the beer feel smooth on the palate and gives a foamy appearance. Premixed bottled gas for creamy beers is usually 75% Nitrogen and 25% CO2. This premixed gas which only works well with creamy beers is often referred to as Guinness Gas, Beer Gas, or Aligal. Using "Beer Gas" with more common ale and lager styles can cause the last 5% to 10% of the beer in each keg to taste very flat and lifeless."

Never mind. someone covered it.

nice - thanks for all the info!

Yuri, you're saying that I should carb to my desired level i.e. 1.5 volumes then switch to my high psi nitro reg through my stout tap? I am about to get this stuff and want to save a little cash. It's about $12 to fill my co2 tank and to fill a similarly sized nitro tank. However, Airgas is the only place around here that does the pre mix "beer gas" and they want $120 bucks! They said it takes like 2 days to do it. I would rather go the simple option. Carb over a few weeks at low psi with co2 and switch to 25-30 psi on nitro for dispensing. From what I've read this will work. I would think that with the added pressure on the keg while dispensing that the co2 would stay in solution rendering the need for adding more co2 later not necessary. Let me know if I'm missing something. Thanks Y'all!

I used to use premixed beer gas for my stouts, however it seemed there was a difference between early and late pours from the same keg. Always wondered if the gas distributed unevenly from the tank. Eventually I found a good deal on a gas blender on ebay and bought it, now I never seem to have that problem.

Was reading this article the other day and it seemed to supply anecdotal evidence that maybe beer gas does not always dispense equally.


http://www.beertravelers.com/lists/drafttech.html

Kind of interesting to read also. At least to me.

Miracletripper said:

Yuri, you're saying that I should carb to my desired level i.e. 1.5 volumes then switch to my high psi nitro reg through my stout tap? I am about to get this stuff and want to save a little cash. It's about $12 to fill my co2 tank and to fill a similarly sized nitro tank. However, Airgas is the only place around here that does the pre mix "beer gas" and they want $120 bucks! They said it takes like 2 days to do it. I would rather go the simple option. Carb over a few weeks at low psi with co2 and switch to 25-30 psi on nitro for dispensing. From what I've read this will work. I would think that with the added pressure on the keg while dispensing that the co2 would stay in solution rendering the need for adding more co2 later not necessary. Let me know if I'm missing something. Thanks Y'all!

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Yes. It always works well for me.

AN_TKE said:

I am thinking of exploring nitrogen dispensing for stouts or experimentation with other ales. I have the idea that I should robably blend co2 and nitro, but i'm not really sure how to do this. If you have experience in using notorgen, can you share your techniques and let me know what additional equipment may be necessary?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I think the basics have been covered by everyone else but I would add that beergas is usually, but not always, sold in CO2 tanks. Check with your local gas supplier. If they do want it in a nitro tank you do not have to buy a new regulator. The CO2 regulator will work fine you just need an adapter to make it fit the tank, for example see http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/regulators/adapter.shtml

BTW, beergas can be hard to find so don't be surprised if you can't find a vendor in your area or if they only cater to commercial customers..

You can buy a gas blender and blend it yourself but they are expensive. Problem is beer gas is expensive too. As for carbing with CO2 and serving with straight nitrogen (cheaper than beer gas) I asked about that. The beer will go flat. You could just serve every 4th beer using CO2, that would maintain a 75-25 mix of nitro and CO2. I may go that route.

See the discussion here..
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/how-do-blended-gases-behave-solution-beergas-question-275966/

edit: $120 is outrageous. OUCH. That's almost as painful as filling up at the gas station.

Miracletripper said:

Yuri, you're saying that I should carb to my desired level i.e. 1.5 volumes then switch to my high psi nitro reg through my stout tap? I am about to get this stuff and want to save a little cash. It's about $12 to fill my co2 tank and to fill a similarly sized nitro tank. However, Airgas is the only place around here that does the pre mix "beer gas" and they want $120 bucks! They said it takes like 2 days to do it. I would rather go the simple option. Carb over a few weeks at low psi with co2 and switch to 25-30 psi on nitro for dispensing. From what I've read this will work. I would think that with the added pressure on the keg while dispensing that the co2 would stay in solution rendering the need for adding more co2 later not necessary. Let me know if I'm missing something. Thanks Y'all!

Click to expand...

You could carb with just co2 and then push with just n2, but gas pressure is independent of one another. If you do that, the partial pressure of co2 in the head space will be near 0, and over time the beer will go flat regardless of the pressure of the N2. Even if you have 10psi in the head space before putting N2 on, as the head space grows while dispensing, that pressure will drop, and again the co2 in solution will come out to equalize the partial pressure of co2 in the head space and dissolved in the beer.