Critique my recipe....

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avibayer,

Adding pepper sounds like fun, you will have to let me know how it turns out.

About adding the cocoa powder you would have to look around. I have heard different ways and since I never tried it I couldn't tell you. I did however on a whim once and added it to the priming sugar when bottling.....void that idea.

I would imagin 1 or 2 oz during the last 10 min. of the boil would do fine.

I agree, I am going to have to make another batch since most of it dissapeared this past weekend.

Cheers
 
With that much roasted barley, it would probably turn out super sour-bitter or something.
 
I dont understand what you mean. what would cause the sour-bitter flavor? could you elaborate.

When something gets to the point where the roasted barley overpowers the beer and it just becomes a roasted-bitter. The sour part would probably be due to the other flavors trying to get through the bitterness. This has just been my experience with stouts that have too much roasted barley (but then again, those are stouts and I don't know how much they used.)
 
With that much roasted barley, it would probably turn out super sour-bitter or something.

Still not 100% about what you're saying. I have added a full lb of roasted barley and gotten a great result. it seems stagstout has as well.

have you brewed a batch with a bad flavor because of too much roasted barley?

the peppers i add will hopefully give it a spicy kick, not a sour flavor. but i dont want to mess up a batch, so if you have specific pitfalls you can warn me of, i would appreciate it.
 
Still not 100% about what you're saying. I have added a full lb of roasted barley and gotten a great result. it seems stagstout has as well.

have you brewed a batch with a bad flavor because of too much roasted barley?

the peppers i add will hopefully give it a spicy kick, not a sour flavor. but i dont want to mess up a batch, so if you have specific pitfalls you can warn me of, i would appreciate it.

It was with a stout, so I'm not sure what to tell you; I can't really say why it turned out how it did, but as far as I know, it was definitely the roasted barely. Taking it down a notch improved it for my tastes

Edit: maybe that batch fermented extra dry as well.
 
It was with a stout, so I'm not sure what to tell you; I can't really say why it turned out how it did, but as far as I know, it was definitely the roasted barely. Taking it down a notch improved it for my tastes

Edit: maybe that batch fermented extra dry as well.

What was the quanity of roasted barley in the reciepe? Along with avibayer, I detected not even an inkling of sourness in my stout. Not to undermine you but young beers could taste sour/green and with a lot of roasted grains, you have to age it longer for the flavors to even out.

On the other hand, I have had some beers that tasted sour/green apple due to too high of fermentation temps. and also had some beers with the gusher bug that made it taste sour as well.

Just me rambling on....:mug:
 
I had saved a six pack, for the 6 month mark. But, since i am planning to brew this again this weekend, but this time up the chocolate and add some peppers, i couldn't resist. I reached into the stockpile, and drank one (its been 4 months since brew day). Stagstout, you are dead on about the flavors blending together nicely. I am happy with the bitterness level of mine. I dont think i will add more than the 2 oz of williamette, though you seemed to be pleased with the fuggles.

what i am brewing this weekend is pretty much what you ended up brewing, but with the crystal 40, instead of 60. I have been looking at a bunch of chocolate stout recipes that add cocoa powder to the boil. any thoughts?

and like i posted earlier, i will be adding some hot peppers to the secondary, for a bit of kick.


avibayer,
I was just curious as to how/when you are adding the peppers? Since I have never done a pepper addition, do you add the seeds as well since they contain the "hot" or do you add the skins?
 
I just reread your thread and realized you mentioned adding the peppers during the secondary.....I guess I read that one too early in the morning.:D
 
Flaked really adds a lot of greatness to stouts in my eyes. I like to add anywhere from 5%-15%. Another thing that I notice is that the roasty/coffee flavors that are massive at first, really calm down a lot. I have ten gallons that I just brewed up sitting in kegs and will last me through the winter. If at all possible, I try to hit the 1.016-1.018 FG in order to keep some mouthfeel to the beer. This means mashing about 157ish or so for me.

The roasted won't add a sour flavor or unfermentables, just roasted flavor and color. If you don't enjoy coffee then I see why you would be saying that it is too roasty. Maybe Stout just isn't for you David Steel. Adding too much crystal though will make your beer seem too unbalanced. I find that the most coffee comes from Black Patent and the Roasted Barley. Chocolate really adds more roast depth and that is why I add it to my stouts. ;)

StagStout, I don't see why you got to 1.020 FG though. You don't have an extreme amount of crystal. Did you mash around 158 or so? If you mashed 154, then you should have gotten down below 1.020. Anyways, glad that this worked out for you!
 
Matt Up North,
Thanks for the advice, I'm glad I did the extra 1/2 lb of chocolate. As far as the 1.02 F.G. I mashed at 154 give or take. So on my second batch, I mashed @ 152 and came out to a 1.017-1.018 F.G.. Who knows, my therm. might be off again. Either way I am really happy with how it came out.

I will have to add some flaked barley to the next batch, my first batch didn't have a whole lot of head retention.

Cheers
 
would flaked wheat help with the head retention? or just flaked barley. I dont know that much about head and lace yet.

I am not going to go with any cocoa powder. (i saw posts that suggested balancing the cocoa powder with lactose, which i did not understand, because lactose is not fermentable. wouldn't it make the beer way too sweet?). I will just use lots of chocolate malt. is 1.5 lbs too much with only 8lbs mariss otter?

i think its looking like

8 lbs MO
1 chocolate
.5 pale chocolate
1 vienna
1 roasted barley
.5 40L
.5 60L
.5 flaked wheat?

2 oz williamete @ 60
irish ale yeast w/starter
mash at ~156 (with a non digital therm its kinda hard to read)

5 hot peppers (open to suggestions as to which)

thanks again to stagstout and mattupnorth for the awesome feedback.
 
would flaked wheat help with the head retention? or just flaked barley. I dont know that much about head and lace yet.

I am not going to go with any cocoa powder. (i saw posts that suggested balancing the cocoa powder with lactose, which i did not understand, because lactose is not fermentable. wouldn't it make the beer way too sweet?). I will just use lots of chocolate malt. is 1.5 lbs too much with only 8lbs mariss otter?

i think its looking like

8 lbs MO
1 chocolate
.5 pale chocolate
1 vienna
1 roasted barley
.5 40L
.5 60L
.5 flaked wheat?

2 oz williamete @ 60
irish ale yeast w/starter
mash at ~156 (with a non digital therm its kinda hard to read)

5 hot peppers (open to suggestions as to which)

thanks again to stagstout and mattupnorth for the awesome feedback.

Currently you are at these numbers

62% Maris Otter
12% Chocolates
8% Vienna
8% Roasted Barley
4% C40L
4% C60L
5% Flaked

or essentially

70% Base
20% Roasted
8% Crystal
5% Flaked

If you go by percentages I would make it look like this

75% Base Malt (Two Row, Maris Otter, Vienna, Munich, Pilsner)
10-15% Total Roasted Malts (Black Roast, Black Patent, Chocolate)
5-10% Flaked (Barley, Rye, Wheat, Oats)
5% Other Things (Crystal, Additional Things)

That will give you a nice balanced flavor that is nice and roasty, creamy and not overly sweet. If you are looking for malty, then mash a little higher rather than adding more crystal malts. 1lb of crystal is a bit more than I like to add to my beer on a five gallon batch unless I am making something for the masses to enjoy or something that has some hops to kinda rid that sweet flavor. That said, if you are going to add hot peppers, then it might be a good idea to go with that amount of crystal in order to balance out the heat. Although, I am not sure how long the hot pepper lasts compared to roast and hops.

Lastly is that you might want to look at the darker than 40L crystals. I recently made my stout using 80L and I really dig the flavor. 60L is my favorite flavor because they start to get more figgy, rummy and raiseny after that. 120L tastes like a burnt fig to me, so I limit that in anything.

My last recipe was

72% Base Malts
13% Flaked
12% Roasted
3% Crystal

Good Luck Gents!
 
Avibayer,
If I remember right, your first batch had only 1/2 lb of chocolate malt. As you know, I used 1 lb and for me i was able to get a nice hint of chocolate in my stout. Just a thought.

+1 w/ MattUpNorth on the crystal, 1 lb seems a bit much. With ours finishing @ 1.20 I think its sweet enough and will be lowering the mash temps to try to get it down to 1.014-1.016 range. I already made a second batch mashing at 152 and came out with a F.G. of 1.017-1.018.

Keep in mind, my therm. is not the most accurate.

Flaked wheat or barley would work for head retention and for me I will opt for the flaked barley. No other reason then the fact that I have used it before and liked the results.

Hope this helps
 
Stagstout, be sure not to mash too low or you will have a thin bodied stout. I really find that 1.015 is about as low as I like them to get. After that they start to lose the mouthfeel that I am looking for. My last beer I mashed at 158 and used 1968, fermented about 71 and still got down to 1.015 when I was trying for closer to 1.017. It is the main reason that I use s04, 1968 or 002, because I can still mash at 155 and get 1.016 even on a lower alc beer. Of course, it is your beer in the end and you might find that a thinner body is more to your preference. I just find that 1.016-1.020 tops is the amount of sugar left to really make a smooth bodied beer that is more velvety and not just dry or sweet.

In the past I got one down to 1.012 and it was too thin for my liking. Just didn't hold together correctly. Also though, I can't stand those stouts that think that 1.025-1.035 tastes good. Too freaking sweet.
 
Thanks guys. gonna stick with the current numbers. I want the extra chocolate and crystal to balance the peppers. will let you know when its all said and done. i am going with the flaked wheat cause i have it left over. i could switch out the 40 for 60 though.
 
Thanks guys. gonna stick with the current numbers. I want the extra chocolate and crystal to balance the peppers. will let you know when its all said and done. i am going with the flaked wheat cause i have it left over. i could switch out the 40 for 60 though.

Keep the crystal @ 1/2 lb and up it to 60 like you mentioned. You won't be dissapointed.

MattUpNorth
I agree what you are saying about body feel and F.G. I just sampled my 2nd batch @ 5 weeks, this was the one that finished @ 1.017-1.018 F.G. and I really like it. Going with my therm. this one mashed @ 152. I also added 2 oz of Black Patent and it seems to give it that little extra kick that I found pleasing. With only 2 oz, it could just be my mind, who knows. It still needs a few weeks but overall this reciepe has produced my best stout yet.

Can't wait to do the next batch, a little barley and who knows, a little more tweaking and I'll have my flagship beer.
 
Its been a hell of a brew day for me. I am freaking out about finals this week, but needed to get out of the library, so i went over to LHBS to get dry malt extract, whipped up my starter and then studied all day yesterday. This morning i decided what better way to spend waiting for the mash and boil than by studying.

messed up the mash temps though. I have a new floating thermometer and it said 175, so i mashed in. I then said 154 when i doughed in. by the end of the mash it had dropped to 144. with my head in a biochem text book, i missed the chance to bumb the temp up.

sparged with 180, and i hope that it gets some of the other enzymes going, cause i am pretty sure the temp dropped down to 170 or so during the sparge.

Did you guys know it was supposed to rain in southern new york today? i should have, and plan to check the weather when planning a brew day.

IMG000351.jpg


so, that was one remedy. But, an hour into the boil, with 1.5 gallons too much that needs to boiled off, my propane dies.

IMG_33661.JPG


so, everything gets moved inside...and will sat on my stove top for the next few hours trying to get up to a boil.
ended up with:
8 lbs MO
1 lbs vienna
1 lbs roasted barley
1 lbs chocolate
.5 pale chocolate
.5 lbs crystal 60L
.5 flaked wheat

2 oz williamette (4.6 AA) @ 60~90 min (hard to know how long it was boiling for). :eek:

OG: 1.068
 
Talk about one h8ll of a brew day, studying and brewing at the same time, I got to give you props. Multiple hop additions is about the extent of multi-tasking for me. After x amount of batches, the wife knows better then to distract me when brewing. I will say that I have been getting better. At least now I don't kick them out of the house when I brew and my little one helps with the hop additions. But my first brew......I can only laugh and shake my head when I look back.

Anyway, you will have to let me know how the chocolate flavor comes out.

My second batch, I used a lighter roast of RB and Chocolate - @ 300L and it seems to me that this batch has much more of a roastier smell and flavor then the first batch where the L was 500-600L. So to me, this was a good mistake/change and I learned something new. The rest of my batches will use the lighter roast.

I gave some to some co-workers and they all enjoyed the stout. So not to toot my own horn and I hate doing that, but this has to be one of the better stouts that I have had. Again I know I am bias, but still......its damn good.

I will however tweak it a little bit more for my third batch....just to see.

Well hopefully you were able to get a boil going on the stove in a decent amount of time. Your take sounds pretty good and can't wait to hear how it taste.

Cheers.
 
I am on the fourth or fifth version and am starting to hone in on the qualities I am really looking for in my stout. Roasty, creamy and with a FG of 1.016 is ideal. Keep playing with it and you will get it. I am thinking about throwing one version of this into a barrel for a bit to see the differences in flavor after some oak hits it.
 
my plan at the moment, is to split my fermenting batch into five one gallon carboys during the secondary phase and then add something to four of them. carboy #1 - plain. carboy #2 - 1 pepper (ancho or guajillo? jalepeno?). carboy #3 - two peppers. carboy #4 - vanilla bean. carboy #5 - vanilla bean and cinnamon.
 
my plan at the moment, is to split my fermenting batch into five one gallon carboys during the secondary phase and then add something to four of them. carboy #1 - plain. carboy #2 - 1 pepper (ancho or guajillo? jalepeno?). carboy #3 - two peppers. carboy #4 - vanilla bean. carboy #5 - vanilla bean and cinnamon.

#5 sounds like a good christmas eve sipper. You are going to have to let me know how that one turns out...very interested to hear about it.

Avibayer,
I will leave this up to you, but as soon as the weather warms up here in wisconsin and new york, would you be interested in a swap? I would be afraid of the bottles breaking in the cold right now.

Cheers and good luck
 
A swap sounds like fun. I have only shipped beer once, but it was successful (ny - portland, or).
 
Well...The sample tasted awesome, exactly what I was looking for, roasty and very balanced. This was my first beer to drink the entire sample, I could drink it as is:rockin:

Cheers

I'm lucky enough to have gotten a bottle of this, and "Awesome" is an understatement.

It has a massively dense dark head and a full chocolately flavor with a very well balanced hoppy flavor. I held it up to the light. Nothing got through. Maybe you should call this "Black Hole Stout".

Great beer.

Thanks Stagstout.
 
Avibayer,
It sounds like a plan, we should PM eachother and plan a time sometime in spring.

Dynachrome,
Glad you liked it, you know where to ask for more :D
 
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