Squeezing wort out of grains/hops - bad idea?

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soupfist

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So my life has been a lot easier since I discovered nylon paint strainer bags. With my limited equipment, it's allowed me to BIAB partial-mash beers up to 4 lbs of grain. But I also got the idea to use a sanitized strainer bag to strain the chilled wort as I pour it into the primary, which is a lot quicker than the crappy little stainless-steel sieve I used to use.

In both cases, despite a nagging voice in my head that tells me not to, I have resorted to "squeezing" wort both after sparging the bagged grain and when straining into the primary (to get that last cup or so of wort out). Is this a bad idea, and if so, why? I haven't reached any conclusions as to whether or not it's had an effect on my beer...I sampled a brown ale I recently transferred to secondary and though it's not finished, it doesn't seem infected or suffering from any off-flavors. So it's cool...right?
 
I believe the common explanation is that you don't want to do that because it adds tannins to your wort.
 
It doesn't matter on hops, but could possibly add more tannins from the grain or possibly contribute to chill haze. Personally I am off the school that if you like your results then screw everyone else. :tank:
 
To echo everyone it adds tannins and will make your beer quite a bit bitter.
You can do it but if you squeeze every last bit your getting stuff you font want in the wort
 
When using a steeping bag I pull the bag out, let it drain by gravity, then gently squeeze the top above the grains, then move down and do it a few more times, until when I release my hand the bag doesn't drip for several seconds.

That way I'm gently squeezing the water suspended in the grains without squeezing out the nasties in the husks/hulls.

Seems to be working so far.
 
Yeah squeeze any bag (hops, grains, whatever) as much as you like. So long as said bag isn't boiling hot, you're fine. Tannins from grains that have never crossed 170f are a myth, or every BIAB'er has no taste buds or something ;)

Squeeze squeeze squeeeeeeeze!
 
I read it somewhere here - "Squeeze that b!tch like it owes you money!"

For those who say that you'll get tannins, can you explain how and why other than "you'll get tannins."?

E
 
Monkey55 said:
I read it somewhere here - "Squeeze that b!tch like it owes you money!"

For those who say that you'll get tannins, can you explain how and why other than "you'll get tannins."?

E

I was told by 3 different 15+ year brewers not to do this. I don't know if it was tannins or what the reason was exactly. All three did tell me I can do it just don't squeeze the piss out of it when it's hot.

These people were very knowledgable
 
I think this is another myth that needs to be busted or confirmed....where are the brew mythbusters?
 
One thing that never gets brought up is the all grain brewers are not smashing their grains dry when sparging,right?Or do they?Ive currently been just moderatly applying pressure after the sparge,after tasting some of the brews i squeezed the crap out of them.It may not have been from that though,but im trying to discover this myself. Im also not shure if your sparge ph matters or not when doing this. I had a lower than normal ph for a mash once and decided not to squeeze down on it.
 
I believe the common explanation is that you don't want to do that because it adds tannins to your wort.

It doesn't matter on hops, but could possibly add more tannins from the grain or possibly contribute to chill haze. Personally I am off the school that if you like your results then screw everyone else. :tank:

To echo everyone it adds tannins and will make your beer quite a bit bitter.
You can do it but if you squeeze every last bit your getting stuff you font want in the wort

Will we never put this myth to bed??? :rolleyes:

We really need to quit perpetuating this answer that is reptead rotely with very little understand..."I heard somewhere" is not a good enough reason to keep repeating something if you have no real understanding of what you're talking about. Read this, it pertains to both tannin myths Boiling and steeping.

There's no reason not to squeeze.....that's another old brewer's myth that has been misunderstood...and has been shot down..But if often just get's repeated as ROTE without anyone stopping to look beyond the just repeating the warning...

Read this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/do-you-squeeze-bag-biab-177051/?highlight=squeeze

And this.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/squeezing-grain-bag-bad-175179/?highlight=squeeze

From Aussie Homebrewer.com

Tannins And Astringency

If you are worried about squeezing your bag too much or crushing too fine, relax! Astringent beers do not come from finely crushed or squeezed husks but come rather from a combination of high temperatures and high pH. These conditions pull the polyhenols out of the husk. The higher your pH and the higher temperature you expose your grain to, the worse the problem becomes. Any brewer, traditional or BIAB, should never let these conditions arrive. If you do allow these conditions to arrive, then you will find yourself in exactly the same position as a traditional brewer. Many commercial breweries actually hammer mill their grain to powder for use in mash filter systems because they have control of their pH and temperatures. This control (and obviously expensive complex equipment) allows them non-astringent beers and “into kettle,” efficiencies of over 100%.

As long as you keep your steeping temps below 170, you won't be producing those supposed tannins that folks blindly say you would be squeezing out.

1) If your PH is off, or your steeping/mashing temp is above 170, your beer will extract tanins from the husks whether you squeeze or not

2) If your PH is ok, and your temps were below 170, squeeze away!

There's been some tests that have disproved the whole "don't squeeze the grain bag, because you will leech tannins" idea. I think there's even been a couple experiments on here detailed in threads. I think it's been pretty well shot down as one of those "old school" beliefs, that turn out to have little effect.

In fact if you are doing AG "Brew in a Bag" you are encouraged to squeeze the grain bag. They even showed it on basic brewing recently, the took a ladder with a hook attached, hung the grain bag, and twisted the hell out of it to drain every ounce of precious wort out of bag of grain.

This should launch as an mp-4

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbv01-16-10cornpils.mp4

So is that's the case, that it is "OK" to do in AG Brew in the bag, then why would it really be bad in extract with grains brewing?

I wouldn't worry about it.

From BYO, MR Wizard;

The two most influential factors affecting the extraction of tannins from malt into wort are pH and temperature. All-grain brewers are very careful not to allow wort pH to reach more than about pH 6 during sparging because tannin extraction increases with pH. In all-grain brewing wort pH typically rises during the last stages of wort collection and is one of the factors letting the brewer know that wort collection should be stopped.....

Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F.

This is where the answer to your last question begins. You ask whether steeping and sparging released "unwanted tannins" in your beer. For starters, all beer contains tannins. Some tannins are implicated in haze and some lend astringent flavors to beer.

The type most homebrewers are concerned about are those affecting flavor. In any case, it is up to the brewer to decide if the level of tannins in their beer is too high. The (in)famous decoction mash is frequently recommended when a brewer is in search of more malt flavor. Decoction mashes boil malt and — among analytical brewers who are not afraid of rocking the boat with unpopular ideas — are known to increase the astringent character associated with tannins. In general I wouldn’t consider 170° F dangerously high with respect to tannin extraction. However, if you believe your beers may suffer because of too much astringency, consider adjusting your steep pH and lowering the temperature a few degrees.

They are often repeated ad nauseum by, especially new brewers, with little know understanding of the context behind them...or even a basic thinking like, "how come it says not to boil your grains, yet people doing decotion mashing do it all the time?" or "They say not to squeeze their grain bag, but in Brew in a Bag- they are encouraged to squeeze them...so what's going on here?."


It's the same with boiling your grains... posted a detailed discussion of the "chestnut" here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/less-than-satisfied-my-first-brew-224679/#post2639410

(There are actually a number of instances where what's been told about that is actually done in all grain brewing....)

In fact I'm boiling my grains right here (It's called decocting) ;)

59448_434057434066_620469066_5122018_4799406_n.jpg

Squeeze away guys. AND QUIT REPEATING WHAT"S BEEN PROVEN TO BE A MYTH.
 
Revvy said:
It's been busted...YEARS AGO...yet folks keep repeating "what they've heard..."

Well out of anyone here Revvy knows his bid ness .
 
There should be a sticky of the myths that are proven wrong that get repeated here so often.

+1

Some things "knowledgeable" people have known: the earth is flat, the sun circles the earth, disease comes from bad humors, tax and spend fixes a deficit...
 

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