Big Time newbie mistakes w/ my AW

I posted earlier this month that I was using liquid yeast for the first time and wasn't sure it was working (http://https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=595049#post595049). After three weeks, the bubbles on top have almost cleared as has the AW. I can still see lots of small bubbles rising to the top, but nothing like I had the first couple of days. If you haven't clicked the link, save the time - I used Wyeast 3068.

While having a homebrew or three tonight and grilling steaks, I decided to get a sample of the AW with my thief. Using a 3 gal carboy, I couldn't get very much with the thief due to the height differentials. What I got tasted good.....too good. Like Apple Juice.

Mistake #1 (or 2 or 3 if you count the yeast type and my screwing around with it after only 3 weeks): It didn't taste like it had much alcohol in it, so I decided to try to get enough to put the hydrometer in it. Had to use the syphon and made a ##%% mess all over everything because I have only used it twice.

Mistake #2: Still couldn't get enough to float the hydrometer, so dropped the hydrometer into the carboy very slowly. Thought it would float high enough that I could get it back. Did not think it would drift to the sides.

Mistake #3: It floated to the side. The top of the carboy interfered with the top of the hydrometer, but it looks like the gravity scale has 1.012 and the ABV scale has 4% if this means anything. (I did not measure the OG, so all of this is just one big screw up.)

Mistake #4: Tried different sanitized instruments to retrieve the hydrometer, but could not get it back out.


Questions.....
1. If the alcohol level is as low as it tastes and appears with my limited hydrometer experiences, does this prove that yeast problem I thought I had in the link above did/does exist?

2. What can I do to get the yeast going if you agree that maybe it just never started working?

3. How do I get the hydrometer back or do I just leave it?

4. Should I go ahead and count this as a loss and drink it up so I can get the hydrometer back?

5. How many of you are ROFLYA's off? LOL!

You need a wine thief.
I have no idea how you are going to get the hydrometer out of your carboy. Maybe just leave it until you rack to another carboy and then retrieve it later? In the meantime, hope to hell it doesn't break.

Hang Loose.
It's gonna be OK.
Your Hydrometer will survive in the carboy...just don't break it wrestling the thing about.
Your apfelwein will be ok!...At least I hope. Now, I'm not yet sure if that yeast will ever give you a clear product, but the higher the alcohol gets, the lower your hydrometer will sink, and it will stop hitting the top.

Be patient, give it a month or so, then bottle.

After you gently rack your apfelwein out of the carboy, overfill it with water. Your hydrometer will pop to the top when the water reaches the lip of the carboy. I don't think you will safely get it out before you get the apfelwein out.

I take sample out of 1 and 3 gallon carboys all the time with a thief. Do you know that you can fill your thief to the top by gently shaking it up and down with just the top in the liquid?

yaeyama said:

You need a wine thief.

Click to expand...

yaeyama, I have one.....I just need to learn how to use it. One with suction, or turkey baster, would have been perfect. I have the long, larger one that the hydrometer can slide into.

yaeyama said:

I have no idea how you are going to get the hydrometer out of your carboy.

Click to expand...

LMAO! That is what I was thinking last night!

BigKahuna said:

Hang Loose.
It's gonna be OK.
Your Hydrometer will survive in the carboy...just don't break it wrestling the thing about.
Your apfelwein will be ok!...At least I hope. Now, I'm not yet sure if that yeast will ever give you a clear product, but the higher the alcohol gets, the lower your hydrometer will sink, and it will stop hitting the top.

Be patient, give it a month or so, then bottle.

Click to expand...

Thanks, BigKahuna. You responded to my original post about the yeast. Do you think I should add more yeast or do anything to try get these going again? What sample I did get with my thief seemed carbonated.

Well, I guess you already answered me with "Be patient....."

Nurmey said:

After you gently rack your apfelwein out of the carboy, overfill it with water. Your hydrometer will pop to the top when the water reaches the lip of the carboy. I don't think you will safely get it out before you get the apfelwein out.

Click to expand...

Good tip on overfilling it, thanks! I was contemplating pouring the hydrometer out after I syphoned the AW out. That would probably break the thing, though!

Nurmery said:

I take sample out of 1 and 3 gallon carboys all the time with a thief. Do you know that you can fill your thief to the top by gently shaking it up and down with just the top in the liquid?

Click to expand...

No, I didn't know that. This was my first time trying to use it, and I only got it to fill to the level of the AW in the carboy. Looking back, there were several things I could have done to raise the level - I just couldn't think of any at the time.

I use a cheap turkey baster from wally world works awesome maybe you should check into that

Even at 75 degrees, a hydrometer reading of 1.012 indicates that fermentation has indeed taken place. Pure apple juice has a specific gravity of 1.050-ish. Ed's recipe boosts that to over 1.070. Your cider is at least 5% alcohol by volume right now. It should finish closer to 1.000 or slightly less.

Ignore the alcohol potential scale - it's not very useful to begin with, and it's useless once fermentation has begun.

Yuri, thanks. That was very helpful info!

Dropping the hydrometer in must have roused the yeast or something....lots of small bubbles still rising to the top non-stop. Kind of like an Alka-Seltzer near its end.

With that little sample that I mentioned earlier tasting so good, I am NOT going to carb this when I bottle it. I probably will not rack it either, depending on your answers to my questions below. I am still awhile away from bottling, but have a couple of questions:

After the bottles sit for awhile, can I expect the AW to have as much yeast in the bottom of the bottle as a beer? Or, maybe not as much since I am not adding any carbing sugar?

Should I use Camden tablets or anything else? If so, what is the best technique, and would this require a secondary for best results?

I want to give a bottle of it to my in-laws, who are not homebrew fans, and am hoping that there is a way to keep the yeast out of the bottom or at least to a very minimum.

Thanks again.

Campden(sulfites) shouldn't be needed unless you had unpasteurized juice/cider.

Secondary is not needed at all. Just keep it alone for 4 weeks and it'll clear right up. Ed's pictures are dead on what to expect.

And on the wine thief, I always suck at the end with the hole on, not blowing at all. Then again, I may be doing it wrong!

Thanks, Clutchdude.

Can I expect to see yeast sediment in the bottom of AW (or homemade wines) like with the beer? Anyway to reduce the amount (other than drinking faster!) so people aren't turned off by it? My first batch, so trying to get an idea of what to expect.

Yes. (Depending on the yeast) You'll get a pretty clear wine.

If you need to, I'm sure you could filter the stuff. I filtered my riesling for a few bottles and got fantastic clarity.

If you're making a still/dry apfelwine, there's no reason for you to have any eyast in the bottle. Just keep racking periodically until yeast consumes all the sugar and stops dropping lees.

If you're going to back sweeten it, or stop the yeast early, make sure you give it a good shot or sorbate to kiill it all off. I tend to rack to new carboy as I stop the fermentation, so I can see easily whether it's still dropping lees of whether it worked.

Either way, once no more lees, bottle, and you will have a nice clear wine, nothing in the bottle.

If you're naturally carbonating, then you're SOL, and you'll have lees in bottle. Then just tell your friends to quit whining and drink, or to bring their own hooch.

Thanks, guys, for the responses.

etp777 said:

If you're making a still/dry apfelwine, there's no reason for you to have any eyast in the bottle. Just keep racking periodically until yeast consumes all the sugar and stops dropping lees.

If you're going to back sweeten it, or stop the yeast early, make sure you give it a good shot or sorbate to kiill it all off. I tend to rack to new carboy as I stop the fermentation, so I can see easily whether it's still dropping lees of whether it worked.

Either way, once no more lees, bottle, and you will have a nice clear wine, nothing in the bottle.

Click to expand...

Bottling it still is exactly what I plan to do, so I will continue to wait patiently.

etp777 said:

Then just tell your friends to quit whining and drink, or to bring their own hooch.

Click to expand...

Loved it!

Update....

I gave it the old taste test in early May. It was good, but cloudy. I went ahead and killed the yeast, waited four weeks, and racked. I waited two more weeks and then made two bottles. It is very good like it is, but I think I will use wine yeast next time.

I was looking for a semi-sweet taste, but this is not sweet enough. One-half pack of nutra-sweet in a wine glass makes it just right. It is also very good with a shot of Sprite added to the glass. So, here's the question...

How would you sweeten the remaining two gallons....by adding sweetener to the bucket or juice/concentrate to the bucket? Since I have killed the yeast, I guess it does not matter which way I go does it? Juice/concentrate would give me a little more apple flavor, right?

Thanks.

431 -

Heh, heh, heh...!!!

This is a pretty funny story, expecially because it has GOT to be true!

But...hey...I'm a newbie, too, so my turn is still yet come.

As far as retrieving your hydrometer, if your carboy is glass, and your hands are steady, there is one option that may work.

There is a gadget that you may find in the tool section of an auto parts store. It's called 'mechanical fingers'.

It's a long slender, spring loaded, cable device. Maybe you can Google a picture/source for one.

Few auto stores have them in stock, but I'm sure they can order you one.

I specified a glass carboy because, if your hand isn't steady enough to grab it as it is bobbing around in the open sea, then it may work better if you can pin it up against the side of the container.

However, even a sanitized 'mechanical fingers' is still metal, and the fingers are fairly sharp, and would definitely scratch the sides of a plastic fermenter.

Or...if you could adapt a length of properly sized plastic hose to the end of a turkey baster, and then pull a vacuum with the bulb just as the hose settles over the top end of the Hydrometer, the vacuum may just be strong enough to retrieve the tester.

But...doing all of the fiddling around with the airlock off is risking your nectar, and if you have other batches that you will need to test before this one finishes, simply investing in a back-up hydrometer may actually be cheaper than investing in mechanical fingers, turkey basters, yadda yadda tadda.

Good luck,

Pogo

Pogo....

Yep, this is a true story and I was too embarrassed to mention this when I posted back in March, but I DID try the mechanical fingers ("sanitized instruments" in #4 of original post)! I also did not mention that I had to use scissors and tweezers on the smack pack after realizing that I did not "smack" it hard enough.

After trying to lasso the hydrometer, I realized that I the fingers in my tool box. Gave them a whirl, but to no avail. Nurmey gave me a good tip about over-filling the carboy and getting it out that way.

So, four months later, all is good as I posted last night...and as BigKahuna said it would be back in March.

I got some great tips and input from the guys on this thread when I was having those problems. Each of the guys contributed to this drink and I appreciate the help. I am hoping to get some feedback soon on my sweetening questions and I will be drinking this stuff! (Well..I am already drinking it, so maybe I would be drinking it faster!)

Chris/431