Welding two sanke kegs together??

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Golddiggie

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Checking to see if anyone has tried welding (or having welded) two sanke kegs together. I'm thinking about welding a pony to a 1/2 bbl keg in order to make a taller mash tun. This would help when I need/want to mash more than ~30# of grain in my current keg mash tun. Since a pony is only about half the height of a 1/2 bbl it should still be manageable. Plus, I'll be able to either use my current false bottom, or easily get another one (NorCal/Jaybird of course).

So, if you've welded a two sanke kegs together, post up your experiences in doing so. If no one has, then I'll have to post up when it comes time and what the experience is as well as the end result. Chances are, I'll have someone that welds a lot do this, so it's done right. :rockin:
 
Few issues with your post...

1. I don't need 55 gallon capacity.
2. I won't be able to use my current false bottom (if I decide to not get a new one for when using the second mash tun).
3. I already HAVE the two kegs on hand. So all I need to do is some cutting, grinding, and then get them welded together. I doubt it would take more than an hour to weld the two together, which would cost me all of $40...
4. I like the cone bottom of the kegs, you don't get that with the barrels.
5. Since this is pre-boil, no sanitizing involved. Simply have to CLEAN it between uses, just like I do now.

Anyone have something useful/helpful to post??
 
Can't see how it wouldn't work if you cut the top of the big keg and the bottom off the smaller one. Finding a good stainless welder might be the toughest part, you could cut them yourself and drop them off to get welded. Kegs are already heavy so one and a half kegs might get cumbersome though.
 
1. I don't need 55 gallon capacity.
2. I won't be able to use my current false bottom (if I decide to not get a new one for when using the second mash tun).
3. I already HAVE the two kegs on hand. So all I need to do is some cutting, grinding, and then get them welded together. I doubt it would take more than an hour to weld the two together, which would cost me all of $40...
4. I like the cone bottom of the kegs, you don't get that with the barrels.
5. Since this is pre-boil, no sanitizing involved. Simply have to CLEAN it between uses, just like I do now.

Since you already know what you want, why not just do it and then post some pics on how the project turned out?
 
I would not cut it yourself. Most welders are picky and would want to cut it themselves so they know it was done right and cut straight. I don't see any issue with it, even if there is a little slag on the inside you can grind it smooth and polish it since the top is cut open.
 
What you'll get is a very deep mash tun that will be difficult to clean and will most likely have efficiency issues due to it's shape. It will also look like 2 kegs welded together.
On the flip side, ingenuity is what makes this hobby so great.

Everybody chill and have a homebrew...
 
So, being a welder i dont see there being any difficulty in welding two kegs together except. Iv noticed kegs do have a bit of a taper to them at certain junctions, they arnt perfectly cylindrical so mating them up will be the trick. Thats the only issue id see. Also as onehoppyguy mentioned grain mashing benefits from a certain width to height ratio. So making your mashtun taller will allow more grain for sure, but it adds more weight to your false bottom, probably making suck sparges more likely and definitely less efficient than a wider shallower mashtun. Otherwise fly at it!
 
might look like this...although cut different.

double keg.JPG
 
Ya, that keg needs some explanation. All i can think right now is what were they smokin when they decided to do that.
 
I have two sets of these in the works. Will post pics when done. The problem i have not is aligning the kegs together, there's a few mm difference in size and the kegs are slightly less than circular.

Great timing on the posts. I'm about 1/2 done, but with a 2 wk old and hoping to switch houses completion is going to take some time : )
 
Honestly, this sounds like way more work, time, and money than it's worth. Even if you have all the materials, a welder will charge you at least 2 hours for the job, and that's if your cut is perfect and he doesn't have to set up a backpurge, which means you'll either be left with a thick ring of burnt black metal on the inside, or pay for another hour of his time or take yours to grind it all down.
Then how much will this thing hold? the tapered portion of the kegs which you'll have to cut off holds 2.5 gallons, and you're losing that off both, so 15.5+7.75-5=18.25 gallons

20 gallon stainless pots will be cheaper than the welding fees alone, and you won't have a mash tun that looks like Frankenstein's cock.
 
I've measured how much is in the bottom cone of a 1/2 bbl keg. All of three quarts. No idea where you get 2.5 gallons from. Even if I lose the volume from one cone (the top keg) I won't lose it from the bottom too. Plus that's wort down there. After draining my keg mash tun I leave all of a quart behind (maybe).

I'm goimg to talk with the welder I normally use to see what makes most sense. I prefer the cone in the bottom of the keg under a false bottom. Especially using one from NorCal.

Plus, as I already mentioned, I have these kegs on hand. The 1/4 bbl keg has already been cut some so it's either destined for a small HLT or something else. The 1/2 bbl keg is a spare so its easy to use.

If I end up being unable to mate these two, then I'll probably have another section welded in the middle. I'm looking to make this large enough so that I can mash enough for some BIG brews. Things in the area of 40# of grain (or more). I have a brew in my list (for within tbe next couple of months) that calls for 35-40# of grain. I'll be able to use some parts from my current mash tun with a modified keggle mash tun, making this the smarter choice IMO. It will probably have a total actual capacity of close to 23 gallons. Even dropping .75 for under the false bottom I'm at 22.5 gallons. Then it's just a matter of how I place the fittings towards the top (AutoSparge and recirc). If I go with getting a section of stainless welded in (not from the donor keg) then it probably cost more than I'd like to spend. Might still so it though. Since the kegs are already on hand costing me NOTHING to use this way. As for cleaning up discoloration post weld. I have no issue doing that myself. IME it wont take me all that long since I have grinders already. I also have the Gator pads to do it. I'm even thinking about polishing this one up.
 
What they are referring to is that kegs are not perfectly cylindrical. Even discounting the bowls at top and bottom, the large area between is tapered a bit meaning you Ned to cut both parts within very tight tolerances so they will match up for a nice weld.

As a welder, I don't think it would be a huge deal to tig it...the surfaces are pretty big and flat so it's not like welding in fittings... But you'll want it backpurged and the welder will want the pieces cut and mated as perfectly as manageable. If it were me, i would want the surfaces within a half millimeter at most...
 
Klyph, how do you know what Frankenstein's cock looks like (assuming you're referring to the monster, not the doctor)??
 
I'm goimg to talk with the welder I normally use to see what makea most sense. I prefer the cone in the bottom of the keg under a flase bottom.
Might still so it though.
I assume you are 'going' 'to' 'make a' 'false'.

Nothing constructive added with this, just giving Golddiggie some of his own medicine about his frequent habit of correcting other posters' minor spelling errors.

Even though Golddiggie's requests for advice are just rhetorical, the previous advice regarding issues with geometry, prep, fitment, etc.; and instead getting a ~20" diameter 20-26 gallon mega-update-thunder-stock-pot was very sound. The 26g is occasionally on special for $200 delivered. It will easily mash a 55lb sack.

There are opportunity costs for everything, even for things you have laying around and your 'free' time.

The cone/dish bottom does not have any real advantages for an MLT, especially if fly sparging.
 
I correct as many as I can while using my phone to post. Even those few that slipped through are extremely minor to what MANY posters normally put up and never bother to correct. So get over it.

I posted to see if someone has done this before. NOT asking for advise on what else to use. If people would actually read, and comprehend before posting a lot of feeling (theirs, not mine) would be saved.

I know a keg can be made longer since I've seen the results. Was looking to see if anyone had actually done it yet.
 
I correct as many as I can while using my phone to post. Even those few that slipped through are extremely minor to what MANY posters normally put up and never bother to correct. So get over it.

I posted to see if someone has done this before. NOT asking for advise on what else to use. If people would actually read, and comprehend before posting a lot of feeling (theirs, not mine) would be saved.

I know a keg can be made longer since I've seen the results. Was looking to see if anyone had actually done it yet.

I would be more than happy to include references to a few of your 2nd grade teacher red correction pen posts for spelling errors more minor than the ones in your post I quoted.

I don't know what I have to 'get over'. If you don't like the favor returned, maybe you have something to 'get over'.

You included in your initial post that you are using it for a mash tun, and therefore got responses as to why it would not make a good mash tun. You also got several posts about time, expense, difficulties, etc. of attempting this. You chose, as usual, to dismiss all advice as unimportant and off topic, along with a bit of derision.

Maybe next time you request advice, just post what it is you want to do, and not why you want to do it. Your initial post in this case would then turn into- Can you weld two guaranteed to be slightly imperfect and different sized cylinders together?
You would then get the responses you are seeking which would be - Given enough time and money, yes.

If you include that these cylinders were 1000 soda pop cans you are planning on turning into a very tall MLT, you are sure to get responses regarding the application, even if you include that you really like the convoluted bottom of the pop can for MLT purposes.

This is a recurring theme of yours- request advice for your 'new' solution to a problem that has already been 'definitively' solved, then dismiss all advice regarding the vetted solution in favor of your own Rube Goldbergian one.

I know a keg can be made longer since I've seen the results. Was looking to see if anyone had actually done it yet.

Maybe you should read your own posts more carefully. You say you have already seen two kegs welded together, and then want to know if anyone has done it? Your request would actually make sense if you were truly open to advice that it isn't worth the time/effort, but, as mentioned before, your requests for advice/input are merely rhetorical. You appear hell bent on completing whatever project you dream up, regardless of feedback as to its feasibility.
 
If you include that these cylinders were 1000 soda pop cans you are planning on turning into a very tall MLT

I actually attempted this, but found the vertical force of the mash caused the welds to give and the sides to buckle. Back to the drawing board....
 
One: you are going to have to get a commercial welder with a plasma cutter and tig welder to do the job.
Two: unless you got the kegs for dirt cheap, like $20 at a yard sale, there are other alternatives.
Three: Why I am even wasting my time to tell you this, considering you are rude to everyone trying to help is beyond me.
Fourth: No, No one has done this because it is stupid. simply split your grain and, have two mash tuns and run them at the same time.
 
I actually attempted this, but found the vertical force of the mash caused the welds to give and the sides to buckle. Back to the drawing board....
I reject your experience. I will find a welder with more skill than yours, regardless of cost. Perhaps I will add some platinum coated titanium reinforcement as well. I must have the convoluted dish bottom that fits my custom dixie cup false bottom and the extreme mash bed height/pressures.

Is there anyone who has done this, and actually done it 'the right way'? I don't care to read about failures, or feasibility studies to the contrary.
 
I love this thread, so much time wasted without any usefull advice, this is not rocket science or difficult to do with a water surround level.

With a wash tub or kiddies pool you set keg inside and level in both axis by shimming with washers.
Add water to desired cut elevation, mark water line with #2 pencil 2" apart.
Pull from the water and use card stock or flexible ruler to connect marks with sharpie.
Cut 1/8" above mark with cut off disk in grinder.
Switch to grind/flap disk and grind back to sharpie mark
Use 1/4" plywood over opening to find high/low areas and finish grind flat, and do not bother with burrs on inside as they should be consumed during welding.
Welding is fairly simple with even cuts and minimal gaps, solar flux back sides without purge, or Argon purge inside.
 
With a wash tub or kiddies pool you set keg inside and level in both axis by shimming with washers.
Add water to desired cut elevation, mark water line with #2 pencil 2" apart.
You are forgetting to account for the curvature of the surface of the water in the pool due to earth's gravity, not to mention the additional error induced by the changing tidal forces while performing the marking. I suppose if you marked them on successive days during the same tidal cycle, and made sure to invert the second keg while marking it, you could then just spin them 180 degrees from their marking orientations.

I don't think anyone thought it was an impossible task, or even a difficult one. Just one that, for the intended application, had better solutions from a time, money, and resulting performance aspect.

If cutting by hand with a grinder anyway, using a tight string will get the line close enough for the initial cut. Stacking them and grinding the high spots can get them fitted close enough for the welder.

The real problem are the issues caused by the resulting geometry, the least of which is the depth of the MLT exceeding the length of the average human arm by ~12". Most mash paddles, too. This will make cleaning and stirring difficult. The resulting height may also cause grain bed issues.
 
I really enjoy the response, it was better than I hoped for, I really would like to see what a cut with string line result would be when welded together. Have you cut and converted kegs before?.
 
I really enjoy the response, it was better than I hoped for

I am glad you liked it. I enjoyed writing it. While your method bordered on overkill (even specifying the grade of pencil to be used for marking), I felt compelled to push it over the edge.

I have not used the string method on a keg, but have on other smooth walled cylindrical things. It gets it close enough, especially if having to hand fit them is inevitable anyway, as it would be even using your water level method. The time saved not having to go buy the kiddie pool, perform a 2 axes level (twice), mark, and then play connect the dots, can be put towards any extra hand fit up caused by using the string.

Also, if you use the keg chimes as the level reference with your method, the cut will only be as square as the chime is. So, with a used keg, no chance, and even with a new keg, not very. Same goes for using the keg wall as a reference. This project will require hand fit up no matter which way you approach the initial cut.

Even easier is to just go off one of the existing reference marks on the keg like an existing weld line, or one of the reinforcing corrugations.

I don't see a welder paste fluxing an entire keg seam for $40 as the OP is guessing. Backgassing the weld is problematic due to the likelihood of the welder having a set of plugs for a keg being very low, and the volume of the keg being very high if the top was just taped shut. The resulting Argon bill would easily push the price past $40. The sugaring on the back of an unshielded weld isn't a sanitation issue for an MLT, but if it decides to start rusting it will add some prep time to each brew day.

I think you have missed the point everyone else already got- there is no real desire for any advice. Just go look at the OP's other threads like the one on sanke fermenting. No matter how many people explained how drilling and installing a corny post in the keg was unnecessary, and that the equipment he already possessed did all he needed, he endeavored to persevere along his chosen path.
 
Have you cut and converted kegs before?.

No, I have not found the need to create any Frankencocks.

Kegs are barely worth the effort to cut the tops off to make a BK/HLT/MLT, much less try to weld two of them back together, or even worse, prep them to have to be sent out to get welded, just to increase the capacity by a few gallons. Who knows though, maybe this is the start of a movement and someone will start making commercial 2 BBL brewhouses using stacked 1/2 BBLs. But why stop at 2 BBLs I ask, when the sky is really the limit.

As I stated previously, I believe the best solution is to buy a premade 26g stock pot for ~$200, or even a $150 55g drum as suggested, and then cut it down to size, since the OP doesn't want 55g capacity.

It is like getting a haircut- a whole lot easier to trim some off than to spend all day at the salon getting extensions woven in, and don't I know it.

The drums have even better proportions for an MLT than a stock pot, but I would not trust them to do double duty for use as a BK like some do. All the ones I have seen have a gasketed connection for the bottom, or a least a crimped seal with a crevice. There may be some with a keg-like bottom, I just haven't seen one in person.
 
20 gallon stainless pots will be cheaper than the welding fees alone, and you won't have a mash tun that looks like Frankenstein's cock.

Damn, you made me spill my drink.
 
I second that, it never ceases to amaze me how vociferous the "Experts" are that never have done something like welded kegs together, yet they are the self proclaimed expert on the subject. It makes me want to say "Beam me up Scotty, no signs of intelligent life here", when they go into their rant.
 
A seven axis water jet would do the best job of cutting it. No cleanup either
 
I second that, it never ceases to amaze me how vociferous the "Experts" are that never have done something like welded kegs together, yet they are the self proclaimed expert on the subject. It makes me want to say "Beam me up Scotty, no signs of intelligent life here", when they go into their rant.
It seems as though you are misinterpreting the tone of the two posts preceding yours. It is apparent with the follow up post after yours, unless you take that one literally too.

There is a big difference between welding two kegs together buy a guy who has a home shop (which says a lot about the guy, usually), and sending two kegs out to be welded that are going to be prepped by a guy who sounds like he has never plugged in a welder.

If this project solved a problem with no available solution, especially when the existing solution will probably be cheaper than the welding fees alone, it wouldn't get ridiculed.
 
I was composing a response to all the haters on this thread, but then decided to take the higher path...

Something that I cannot let pass though... A proper weld will not fail AT the weld. The metal on either side will fail long before the weld will. IF this was done with solder, then I could see a shotty job failing. Or someone that had no clue as to how to weld stainless steel together.

As for the frankencock, well, at least one person got enjoyment from it.

There's an item on ebray that's close to what I'm looking to make, so it HAS been done before. :p

As for the rest of the negative Nancy's... How many fingers am I holding up??

BTW, just because I've not MIG/TIG welded before (I have done oxy-acetylene welding) doesn't mean much. I know enough to know I need a pro to do the welds. I've also mentioned that I'll not cut anything until I consult with the welder. I'm not stupid after all... Contrary to what some people might think, this IS a viable project. If nothing else, to help others learn. To think I was simply asking if someone else had done this before when the thread opened... So many 'smarter than you' posts about how other options are better... Except they WILL end up costing me MORE to go with.
 
Something that I cannot let pass though... A proper weld will not fail AT the weld. The metal on either side will fail long before the weld will. IF this was done with solder, then I could see a shotty job failing. Or someone that had no clue as to how to weld stainless steel together.

The metal on either side fails for a number of reasons:
-the filler metal has a much higher tensile strength and/or is much stiffer than the base metal (common with MIG and stick)
(this is not an advantage in most cases, as it causes a localized stress area which can lead to failure)
-the heat affected zone has compromised the integrity and/or temper of the base metal
-both of the above, as well as many others

Someone who has any clue about welding would know that.
On top of that, the only reference to welds failing was regarding the "Eiffel Mash Tun" made from 1000 soda pop cans. Hard to believe someone actually built one, but then again this thread is about paying someone to weld two kegs together to make a 20g mash tun.


As for the frankencock, well, at least one person got enjoyment from it.

There's an item on ebray that's close to what I'm looking to make, so it HAS been done before. :p
John Wayne Bobbit has a Frankencock. That doesn't make it a good idea, or make me want to go out and have it done, too- especially by somebody off Ebay.

Contrary to what some people might think, this IS a viable project. If nothing else, to help others learn. To think I was simply asking if someone else had done this before when the thread opened... So many 'smarter than you' posts about how other options are better... Except they WILL end up costing me MORE to go with.
If you will go back, the 'smarter than you' posts started after yet another of your responses deriding someone's response (To your request).
I don't know what you mean by 'viable'. No one said it was impossible, just not worth the time/effort/money.
As for cost, you can get a new 80qt pot for $150. Following your logic you could hand hammer out one of your kegs until flat, and drill 1000 holes by hand. Then you would have a 'free' false bottom with a total cost of $150 for your new MLT.
 
The lack of support on this forum compared to a year ago is appalling. OP, just do it. Does it make sense? No. So ****ing what?

ZOMG HES GOING TO WASTE MONEY!!! Is it your money? No, ****ing move on.
 
The lack of support on this forum compared to a year ago is appalling. OP, just do it. Does it make sense? No. So ****ing what?

ZOMG HES GOING TO WASTE MONEY!!! Is it your money? No, ****ing move on.
This thread hasn't been about supporting the OP for some time- since the third post when he chastised the first responder. Most people are just having fun. The OP is known for posting up his 'projects' for feedback, with the same retorts for any advice that differs from his preconceived ideas.

As for support, I myself even gave a viable easy way to scribe a line around the keg, and even improved upon a more complicated way that would give an even more accurate cut line.

As for his wasting money, he claims he is saving money by doing this, which is what confuses people who suggest alternative solutions.
 
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