Another Possible Infection Question? (pics)

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dblalock

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Hello,
This is my fourth batch to brew and I just haven't seen this before. It just doesn't seem like white belongs in beer?

On Saturday I started brewing this Dunkelweiss. By Saturday morning fermentation was raging. I had to switch from an airlock to blowoff, which is still on there. Now that it has calmed down a bit I am starting to notice this white color around the top of the carboy. These pictures kind o show it..

Thanks
P1011108.jpg

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab218/derekblalock/P1011109.jpg
 
That's just the remnants of krauzen drying on the inside of your carboy...Remember you had a blow off...the krausen (with hop gunk) rode all the way out the top of your carboy...and when the krausen began to fall it just leaves a mess behind on the glass...Perfectly normal....

Relax!
 
Thanks guys!
This is my first time to ferment in glass. So I guess I'm paying a bit too much attention.
 
Thanks guys!
This is my first time to ferment in glass. So I guess I'm paying a bit too much attention.

Yeah it's pretty comment to relatively new brewers to freak out when they ferment in glass for the first time, they never realized that in the opaque world of their buckets, just how UGLY normal fermentation really is.

You wouldn't believe the numbers of new brewers who have posted perfectly normal krauzen pictures, thinking that gnarly brown stuff on top, is an infection.
 
I was just thinking that I am glad I am using a thick bucket...if I saw that stuff I'd wanna pour it out and swear off of beer forever;)
 
That's definitely some trub/resin/whatever that was carried up by the krausen. I've heard it's good to have that stuff out of the beer, because it gives an unpleasant bitterness. Definitely not an infection. For me, infections haven't shown up until after bottling, where I see a white film encircling the ring of the neck.
 
You know I racked a batch into a secondary early. I could see some little white blobs swimming up to the top and then falling back down again in my glass. I almost tossed the whole thing.
 
I'll have to admit Krausen is a nasty looking thing. The first batch I brewed was a hefeweizen, which really are krausen monsters, and I like to never got up the nerve to taste my beer. I would have rather tried Limburger Cheese again or liver and onions. But I forced myself and it was the best beer I ever had. Look forward to doing the style again this spring


Every time I taste a brew the first time there is this little kid's voice inside me that screams, "OOOHHHH! That's nasty don't drink that", but I have successfully drowned him every time.
 
You know I racked a batch into a secondary early. I could see some little white blobs swimming up to the top and then falling back down again in my glass. I almost tossed the whole thing.

That's just botulism, perfectly normal. Only causes double vision, blurred vision, drooping eyelids, slurred speech, difficulty swallowing, dry mouth, and muscle weakness. The doctor's examination may reveal that the gag reflex and the deep tendon reflexes like the knee jerk are decreased or absent. :p
 
That's just botulism, perfectly normal. Only causes double vision, blurred vision, drooping eyelids, slurred speech, difficulty swallowing, dry mouth, and muscle weakness. The doctor's examination may reveal that the gag reflex and the deep tendon reflexes like the knee jerk are decreased or absent. :p

That's really not funny, you may not realize it but quite a lot of new brewers, as well as the general public, are so afraid of brewing and are ignorant of the fact that nothing pathogenic can live in beer, and you can't go blind from it that comments like that are really counterproductive here.

Daily many of us have to answer threads about that very topic, people thinking that if they make a mistake that their beer can kill people, make people extremely ill, or cause yeast infection and other illness.

So it's best not to go there, especially in the beginner's beer forum, many many many new brewers, and lurkers jump on and gravitate to any threads that talk about infections, to rationalize or justify their fears, so it's never ever to even in jest feed those fears.

:mug:

For those Noobs looking on (I know who you are :D);

Nothing pathogenic can live in beer, including botchuism. So the only "poisoning" you can get is liver poising...but we're all in the same boat with that anyway, so you are in good company. :D

I came across this from a pretty well known and award winning homebrewer railing against a fellow brewer (it was on one of those "color coded" brewboards where they are a little less friendly than we are.) I just cut and pasted it and stuck it in a file...here it is.


Can you get a PATHOGEN from beer. No. NO *NO* Did I make that clear? You have a ZERO chance of pathogens in beer, wine, distilled beverages. PERIOD!

Pathogens are described as organisms that are harmful and potentially life threatening to humans. These are some 1400+ known species overall encompasing viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and helminths. Of that group, we are only interested in those that can be foodborne. Quite simply, if it can't survive in food, it isn't in beer. That knocks out all but bacteria and fungi. Viruses need very specific circumstances to be passed around... like on the lip of a glass or bottle, not the beer in it. **Ahhh...CHOOO!**

Pathogens as a rule are very fastidious beasts. Meaning that they want very specific temperatures, acidity, nutrients and other conditions to thrive.

Bacteria that *could* live in wort, cannot survive even a little bit of fermentation. There are several reasons for this. One is in the 'magic' of hops. It is the isomerized alpha acids that provide a preservative effect to the beer, which happens to inhibit pathogens! Good deal for fresh wort!

Another reason is the drop in pH from fermentation. Next, yeast emit their own enzymes and byproducts, all in an effort to make the environment hostile to other creatures. The major one is alcohol, of course, but their enzymes will break down less vigorous organisms and they become sources of trace nutrition. Now the latter is very minor compared to the effect of alcohol, but it exists! Most of the time these enzymes work on the wort, not organisms until late in the process. Good deal for beer! ...uh, wine too.

Oh, Botulism specifically... did you know that this is an anaerobic pathogen? It's toxin is one of the few that is broken down by boiling. Did you know tht it is strongly inhibited by isomerized alpha acids, even in water? Since fresh wort has a healthy amount of oxygen in it, the beastie cannot even get started, then once the O2 is used up, it doesn't have a chance against the hops or the yeast.

All that is left are a handful of acid producing bacteria that'll ruin a batch of beer. Overall, there are less than 200 organisms that can survive in beer and lend flavor effects. None of these for very long, or very often. Lambic being the sole exception, and if pathogens *could* survive, that'd be the style where you find 'em.


It's important to remember that one of the reasons we have beer today (one of the oldest beverages in existence) is because it was made to be drunk in places where drinking the WATER was deadly....By boiling the wort, adding hops (which is an antiseptic), changing the ph, and pitching yeast, you killed of any microorganism that good be harmful.....in fact the third runnings of the brewing process was fermented at an extremely low gravit 1-2% ABV, and it was called "table beer" or "Kid's Beer" this is the stuff that people drank with meals...it was their water replacement, like Iced tea or soda pop...because again the fermentation process insured thatit was safer than the water.
 
It's important to remember that one of the reasons we have beer today (one of the oldest beverages in existence) is because it was made to be drunk in places where drinking the WATER was deadly....By boiling the wort, adding hops (which is an antiseptic), changing the ph, and pitching yeast, you killed of any microorganism that good be harmful.....in fact the third runnings of the brewing process was fermented at an extremely low gravit 1-2% ABV, and it was called "table beer" or "Kid's Beer" this is the stuff that people drank with meals...it was their water replacement, like Iced tea or soda pop...because again the fermentation process insured thatit was safer than the water.

Very true. Some speculate that civilization became possible due to beer. Whenever humans settled down near a water source, they tended to pollute it with waste. Then beer came along and suddenly water problems were found less and less because the beer making process killed off most of the nasty agents in polluted water. People were able to stick around water sources long enough to get to talking and build up communities.
 
Good observations, I was talking to a brewing buddy on Sunday, and he said he watched a history channel documentary that was about the Journey overseas to the new land. I thought it quite interesting that the beverage of choice for all crews was BEER. As a matter of fact they ran out a couple of times and had to turn back to Europe for a "Refresh" of their supplies. The children on the ship even drank the beer, because they thought the water was toxic.
 
Good observations, I was talking to a brewing buddy on Sunday, and he said he watched a history channel documentary that was about the Journey overseas to the new land. I thought it quite interesting that the beverage of choice for all crews was BEER. As a matter of fact they ran out a couple of times and had to turn back to Europe for a "Refresh" of their supplies. The children on the ship even drank the beer, because they thought the water was toxic.

Some argue that mead or wine was the first fermented beverage, and they may be, but probably through accident initially (spontaneous fermentation) but to make beer, you specifically boil water which gets rid of pathogens, and you add all manner of good stuff like hops to preserve it.

So yeah I bet beer was as very important and healthier alternative to water in most parts of the early world...and will be again when the inevitable zombiepocalypse occurs. ;)
 
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