Dump it or age it? Perfumed beer?

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OdinsBrew

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Location
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My first batch is a stout. It's been in the bottle for about 4 weeks, and still tastes like crap. It's really perfumey and nasty.

I did modify the recipe. It was a kit recipe for a stout. I added 2.25 oz of vanilla extract at bottling. I used 2 quarts 100% pure apple juice in addition to top off water when going to primary. It didn't dawn on me until afterward that the apple juice would become cider. The cider taste is coming through a little and is distinctly separate from the perfume smell and taste.

When siphoning to the bottling bucket, I did get air pockets in the tube and had to restart. I can't remember if I had the lid on the boil pot the whole time or not. I've learned it's best to boil topless to get rid of nasties...

Should I dump it or age it?
 
I would say if you don't need the bottles/keg then just let it sit for a while. I will admit that a stout with apple juice is nothing I have experience with and I doubt many folks do, but age tend to make most flavors more harmonious for a lack of a better word. I have had many a batch that tasted like crap after 4 weeks that tasted ok at 8-12 weeks. Again though you are WAY outside the box on your apple juice stout :D.
 
I'd guess the problem is the vanilla extract and that will blend in after a couple months.
 
Ok. I gotta ask. How did you come up with the idea to put vanilla and apple juice together? I definitely respect your creativity.... but i can't for the life of me determine the inspiration?
 
You'll find my answer and many other people's experience in this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

And read this as well. http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Of_Patience_and_Bottle_Conditioning/

Most of my stouts and porters didn't become drinkable for about 6-8 weeks.



Revvy,

Don't you have a thread or a post that you have that talks about how until you know what you are doing you shouldn't mess with a recipe otherwise it might turn out tasting like a teletubbies rear end drainings?

I can't imagine apple juice and vanilla ever tasting good together. I think the only hope here is that one, or both, will completely fade with time. Apple juice and vanilla? Really? ;) I know, I know, seemed like a good idea at the time. :)

+1 on the fact that I don't even try my stouts or porters until about 6 weeks in bottle.
 
Revvy,

Don't you have a thread or a post that you have that talks about how until you know what you are doing you shouldn't mess with a recipe otherwise it might turn out tasting like a teletubbies rear end drainings?

I can't imagine apple juice and vanilla ever tasting good together. I think the only hope here is that one, or both, will completely fade with time. Apple juice and vanilla? Really? ;) I know, I know, seemed like a good idea at the time. :)

+1 on the fact that I don't even try my stouts or porters until about 6 weeks in bottle.

I might have, though I don't recall being so creative with the description...Teletubbie's excretions sounds more like Evan!'s style....

BTW, I've been wondering about the beer you pmmned be about...pm me and tell me what you decided.
 
Ok. I gotta ask. How did you come up with the idea to put vanilla and apple juice together? I definitely respect your creativity.... but i can't for the life of me determine the inspiration?

Sounds like an apple pie a' la mode stout to me. Doesn't sound quite so nasty now, does it?
 
Age it.

If I had that concoction in my fermenter, I'd consider aging on some bourbon-soaked oak chips to cut (or at least complement) the apple / vanilla.

I have to say kudos anyhow. I like the outside-the-box thinking, and with some aging, you'll either have a winner, or a good stock for marinating ribs and chops.
 
I might have, though I don't recall being so creative with the description...Teletubbie's excretions sounds more like Evan!'s style....

BTW, I've been wondering about the beer you pmmned be about...pm me and tell me what you decided.


Actually I was just extrapolating from the OP's description and from the ingredients what this beer might remind one of.

Will do on the PM.
 
Sounds like an apple pie a' la mode stout to me. Doesn't sound quite so nasty now, does it?

Apple pie a' la mode stout was the idea. I was also going to add whiskey- I did add about 3/4 cup. Apparently I used most of my whiskey in the hot cider over the holiday parties and only had the 3/4 cup left. I had planned on adding 1.5 cups. The brew in question was my first batch ever and wanted to just dive in the deep end.

next up:
brussels sprout belgian strong ale
ya right.

The stout is tucked away in storage. Time will tell. I may do an imperial maybe with whiskey oak soaked chips in time for next fall. Now that I've learned a trick or two about this brewing thing.

As far as thinking outside of the box, I remember the first time I heard that saying as a teenager, and thought to myself "what box?"
 
the apple pie alamode does sound better. I hadnt thought of that. Could be good..... maybe you have the next world class beer
 
I had to comment on your question, because I have had two batches (including my current) that smells of perfume. I have never been able to describe it before but the word "perfumed" is perfect. Last night I poured a beer from my new batch in a glass.
Yikes the smell...I forced 3 down, terrible! I was going to dump it but beer in Canada is so dreadfully expensive.
I opened another beer tonight, smelled it...it was perfummy obviously, so I drank from the bottle. Actually the beer tasted quite good, because I havent a big fat glass with the smell going up my nose. As I write this I am on my 6th and its ok. I understand yours is a stout so you want the nice head in a glass. I kinda like drinking from the bottle to be honest because I dont see if theres any mistakes in the head, its carbonated. I just leave an inch in the bottom.
This could be the worst advice but its my 2 cents worth
 
I had to comment on your question, because I have had two batches (including my current) that smells of perfume. I have never been able to describe it before but the word "perfumed" is perfect. Last night I poured a beer from my new batch in a glass.
Yikes the smell...I forced 3 down, terrible! I was going to dump it but beer in Canada is so dreadfully expensive.
I opened another beer tonight, smelled it...it was perfummy obviously, so I drank from the bottle. Actually the beer tasted quite good, because I havent a big fat glass with the smell going up my nose. As I write this I am on my 6th and its ok. I understand yours is a stout so you want the nice head in a glass. I kinda like drinking from the bottle to be honest because I dont see if theres any mistakes in the head, its carbonated. I just leave an inch in the bottom.
This could be the worst advice but its my 2 cents worth

Interesting. How long has your beer been in bottle? Did you add any additives for flavoring? Any guesses at something that may have gone wrong in your brewing? Though I suppose for us to compare notes on brewing and potential problems that we both did would be a book in itself.

I'll try the drink straight from the bottle trick! Now that's a real solution! I don't have to age it or dump it!

:mug:
 
Odins thats the trick buddy lol. I used the can of Coopers malted, hopped ...thing and 2.2 lbs of corn sugar on this one. Like I said I couldnt think of a word to describe this until your "PERFUMED" coment came up. I never have had an infection as I am meticilous on that end. Drinking it through 1 1/4" bottle head wont let you smell it and it works. I was drinking mine in a 16oz glass...as you drink you smell the aroma...barf.
We might be gassy tomorrow but after the time and money we invested in our brew, I think Its worth it lol.

Colm
 
Look, to be honest aging it will help but really vanilla and apple???
Think about what you are doing, learn to brew first and experiment a bit afterward.
At least you brewed a dark beer for that, darks are more forgiving.
If you want to play with recipes try adjusting hops or malt first there are enough variables in steeping and hopping to keep you going for years.
I'm not knocking stretching the boundaries, just learn where they are first...
 
Odins thats the trick buddy lol. I used the can of Coopers malted, hopped ...thing and 2.2 lbs of corn sugar on this one. Like I said I couldnt think of a word to describe this until your "PERFUMED" coment came up. I never have had an infection as I am meticilous on that end. Drinking it through 1 1/4" bottle head wont let you smell it and it works. I was drinking mine in a 16oz glass...as you drink you smell the aroma...barf.
We might be gassy tomorrow but after the time and money we invested in our brew, I think Its worth it lol.

Colm

I also used 2lbs of corn sugar in addition to the DME kit, looking to make big beer. Would it be an excess of corn sugar?
 
:off:
To all you folks who are just replying about the flavors I'm going for, instead of having any glimpse of a clue about an answer regarding "perfumed beer":

Dude, why bother replying? What are you brewing? A kit beer, of some socially acceptable style? Something you can get anywhere, with minor variations of flavor? Are you only comfortable in large groups of people, who are just like you, so there's no reason to show accountability for any difference, no leadership, no new path, and you can hide behind or blame the guy next to you if anyone points a finger at you? Guess what. The few people in control are telling you what "good beer" is. Don't get me wrong, the re-packaged lager that is sold the world over is great. Bud-kingfisher-fosters etc. I drink it. Bud light is my house beer. But show some guts. Show some individuality. Wake up. Live life. Find out what tastes you like and brew them. There's a whole world out there. All this talk of "the box" in the box, out of the box. Go google "allegory of the cave", and read it. Isn't this the beginner brewer's forum? I'm sorry I stumped you with the "perfumed beer". But don't waste my time arguing about the subjectivity of taste. If I do make this a world class beer, you can pay $5 a pint just like everyone else. What happened to RDWHAHB?

So for all the conservative taste buds out there:
:ban:
 
The point that people are making when questioning your recipe is that you are going to waste a lot of time with trial and error by not working off an established base recipe. Building off a recipe that you know works is going to be a much better way to experiment than randomly tossing in various amounts of extra ingredients.

Also, that perfume flavor could be coming from anywhere. If you are working off an established recipe, then its probably your process causing it. However, with your random recipe, it could be any number of things and the people on this forum aren't going to be able to help you.
 
I also used 2lbs of corn sugar in addition to the DME kit, looking to make big beer. Would it be an excess of corn sugar?

The point that people are making when questioning your recipe is that you are going to waste a lot of time with trial and error by not working off an established base recipe. Building off a recipe that you know works is going to be a much better way to experiment than randomly tossing in various amounts of extra ingredients.

Also, that perfume flavor could be coming from anywhere. If you are working off an established recipe, then its probably your process causing it. However, with your random recipe, it could be any number of things and the people on this forum aren't going to be able to help you.

Thanks for trying to clarify, but this thread has become too convoluted.

The main question is if the beer is perfumed, is it worth saving? Will it always be like that? Is it just a stage of the aging when using added flavoring ingredients? Sounds like it might get a little better, but being my first batch I don't know if this is normal or not. As far as trial and error, that's why I posted the question, to save myself upcoming steps of trail and error, to see if my process is wrong, or if it's just a natural stage of the beer aging.

Maybe a question that might share more insight with the readers, and myself: What are some mistakes in the brew process that makes a beer "perfumed" as described. Not corn flavor, not vegetal, but a strong perfume like nose?
 
As a general rule, NEVER throw out bad tasting beer. Oxidation and its cardboard/sherry taste may be the one exception since my understanding is that it only gets worse with age. Let your beer age and try one every couple months to see if it improves. If it never does, then oh well. If it does turn into great beer, then you just won the game of homebrew.

As for the perfumed nose, that is something that I have never heard of. Which might explain why so many people are trying to identify your exact recipe and process. If they can find commonalities, then you may be able to pinpoint the problem and correct it.
 
I also used 2lbs of corn sugar in addition to the DME kit, looking to make big beer. Would it be an excess of corn sugar?

As a general rule, NEVER throw out bad tasting beer. Oxidation and its cardboard/sherry taste may be the one exception since my understanding is that it only gets worse with age. Let your beer age and try one every couple months to see if it improves. If it never does, then oh well. If it does turn into great beer, then you just won the game of homebrew.

As for the perfumed nose, that is something that I have never heard of. Which might explain why so many people are trying to identify your exact recipe and process. If they can find commonalities, then you may be able to pinpoint the problem and correct it.

Right on. Thanks Parks. Maybe it's oxidized. Sherry doesn't come to mind yet as a flavor. Cardboard, maybe. I'll try another soon and keep aging it. Interesting that the oxidized flavors get worse with age.
 
I've read that adding too much additional sugar can give your beer a cidery taste. Combine that with your interesting apple juice addition, and well, you have a stout/cider. I love stout, and cider is nice too, but I just can't personally imagine mixing those two flavors. Not to say I wouldn't give some of yours a taste if offered; I'll try almost anything once. But if I were going to try your recipe experiment, I'd add more malt extract instead of more corn sugar if I wanted to up the alcohol content.
 
Like some have said... if you got the space.. keep it around and see what happens.

Sorry but did you mention you put whiskey in it too? Can that lead to the possible 'perfume' aroma? I haven't heard or read anything on putting in other alcohols in the brew.

I have my first batch in primary now, I started all grain Fuller's ESB clone. Waiting sucks!!!

Good luck to ya!
 
:off:
To all you folks who are just replying about the flavors I'm going for, instead of having any glimpse of a clue about an answer regarding "perfumed beer":

Dude, why bother replying? What are you brewing? A kit beer, of some socially acceptable style? Something you can get anywhere, with minor variations of flavor? Are you only comfortable in large groups of people, who are just like you, so there's no reason to show accountability for any difference, no leadership, no new path, and you can hide behind or blame the guy next to you if anyone points a finger at you? Guess what. The few people in control are telling you what "good beer" is. Don't get me wrong, the re-packaged lager that is sold the world over is great. Bud-kingfisher-fosters etc. I drink it. Bud light is my house beer. But show some guts. Show some individuality. Wake up. Live life. Find out what tastes you like and brew them. There's a whole world out there. All this talk of "the box" in the box, out of the box. Go google "allegory of the cave", and read it. Isn't this the beginner brewer's forum? I'm sorry I stumped you with the "perfumed beer". But don't waste my time arguing about the subjectivity of taste. If I do make this a world class beer, you can pay $5 a pint just like everyone else. What happened to RDWHAHB?

So for all the conservative taste buds out there:
:ban:

Nice reply! I agree. Why do people brew Pumpkin beer? Or beer with fruit? Or Hefe-weizen? Oh I know why, because THEY LIKE THEM! I don't think pumpkin or fruit has any place in beer, but I don't harsh on everyone who brews these beers. If I want to make a brew with cantaloupe and cat turds, then that's my choice. Age your vanilla apple for A LONG TIME and I'll bet it'll be good.:mug:
 
:off:
To all you folks who are just replying about the flavors I'm going for, instead of having any glimpse of a clue about an answer regarding "perfumed beer":
...

So for all the conservative taste buds out there:
:ban:

Good for you! There's plenty of room in this hobby for crazy and off the wall. Actually, if you ever do decide to keg and carb this crazy beer up, I'd love to swap you a couple of bottles. I love "interesting" beer.
 
Nice reply! I agree. Why do people brew Pumpkin beer? Or beer with fruit? Or Hefe-weizen? Oh I know why, because THEY LIKE THEM! I don't think pumpkin or fruit has any place in beer, but I don't harsh on everyone who brews these beers. If I want to make a brew with cantaloupe and cat turds, then that's my choice. Age your vanilla apple for A LONG TIME and I'll bet it'll be good.:mug:

Please don't.
Sincerely,
God
 
I've read that adding too much additional sugar can give your beer a cidery taste. Combine that with your interesting apple juice addition, and well, you have a stout/cider. I love stout, and cider is nice too, but I just can't personally imagine mixing those two flavors. Not to say I wouldn't give some of yours a taste if offered; I'll try almost anything once. But if I were going to try your recipe experiment, I'd add more malt extract instead of more corn sugar if I wanted to up the alcohol content.

Used to make a black velvet with Guinness and dry (silver top) Merrydown cider. Was a long time ago, over 21 years IIRC but it couldn't have been all that bad tasting as I'd buy 2 pint bottles of each and mix them in the glass. Batter 4 pints of that on a Friday night no worries:ban: A little, mellow, hint of vanilla, on top might not be all that bad.:mug:
 
Stumbled upon this; how did it turn out?

wow, this old thread reappeared! Funny to see this again.

So to recap... that "apple, vanilla, stout" was the first time I brewed, ever.

The inspiration, questioned a few replies back, was to create flavor profile that was like having a stout with a piece of apple pie with vanilla ice cream. The mistake: using apple juice for flavoring which turns into cider.

Did I ever mention the original funny a$$ part? I chose to dump the apple juice in because it was raining in my kitchen. I was boiling so much water, the steam was condensing and dropping off the ceiling. I was literally mopping the ceiling. Knowing I had to top off my carboy and not wanting to boil more, I saw the 100% pure apple juice on my shelf, and went for it.

Flash forward to the present... I'm now an awesome brewer. (ah hem... let me brag a bit.) There's a World Cup of Beer 3rd place ribbon next to my American IPA, my dIPA got a 41 from one judge, there's a silver medal next to my black lager, and my belgian specialty has done well too. Yesterday I blended and bottled my second sour, which I think is going to be a pretty dang good flanders red. Can't wait to try that one when it's ready.

During my learning curve of brew skills, besides getting a beer gut and then a road bicycle from the savings from brewing to work off that gut, I've also made apple wine (apple juice, corn sugar and yeast). I've had it age for about a year, and the apple flavors really came out. It's good stuff. We serve it like champagne. So I wonder, if doing a stout with apple flavors, if aging it is the key.

I think I might have one bottle left of the infamous "snake bite" stout cider. I might just go pop it open and see if the apple flavors have come out to blend with the stout. If I do I'll try to sip and taste and email back in.

I'll have some time to brew later in december, and maybe I'll try the original experiment again. As a rough draft I'd start with an oatmeal stout, add some vanilla bean, perhaps soaked in bourbon. Apple juice added will require aging at least 6 months, better a year. The apple flavors would come through then. But the end result of the cider itself would have to be counter balanced in the grain bill, hops, and the yeast. Bump up the cider taste with citrusy hops? Or mask it with noble? Sweet malts for sure. Sweet english stout yeast might balance the dry cider. The thing is, I don't want a "snake bite" cider/stout. I want a hint of sweet delicious red apple, to go hints of oatmeal and vanilla in a big heavy, dark stout. Maybe I'll brew it this holiday season and store it for the next.
 
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