Why'd you pick the grain mill you did?

Catfish said:

1. My problems with the old mill came from the axles being screwed on (I misthreaded it when I was changing the handle adn was never able to right it).


2. I think the monster mills axles are solid extensions of the actual rollers.


3. For general mill specs, minimum 4" x 1.5" rollers, 6" x 2" would be even better.


4. Also I hate the adjustment method on my old mill; dials on the axles of the powered roller, with a tiny tightening screw under the hopper. To adjust the mill you need to remove the hopper and top cover of the mill, this is a problem with a full hopper. Ideally you would have set your mill to the proper gap before filling your hopper, but the act of grinding turn the adjuster knob.


5. You should look at these mills to get an idea:
http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/productsnew.html
http://www.mashmaster.com/p/389022/millmaster-grain-mill-pre-order-today-and-save-special-introductory-price.html
http://crankandstein.org/
and of course
http://www.barleycrusher.com/


6. Don't forget to check out the DIY section as some of the people here have already built their own mills and can give you different info than I can.


7. I'd be interested in seeing your mill s when they're done.

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1. Have you tried drilling the threads out and re-tapping to the next size up? It should solve your problem. If you'd like, give me the current thread size and I'll give you the corresponding info for the next size tap up, including the correct drill to use.

2. That is the correct way to make a solid machine. Anything less is just asking for trouble.

3. I was thinking of a minimum of 2.0 diameter rollers at 6.0 inches in length, not including the drive spindle (0.375 & approx. 1.5 long). I was also thinking of machining an adapter should someone want to use a 0.500 dia. drive.

4. Adjusting the drive roller doesn't make sense, being that the roller would be heavier and more 'temperamental' than the dummy roller to control. I was looking into several different ways to adjust the dummy roller externally and with precision. Less fuss and pissed off brewers that way.

5. Thanks. That helps out. I pretty much know how it has to work but really wanted input from the guys who use those things all the time. Not much of a beer drinker myself. I prefer Port.

6. I'll do that. Again, thank you.

7. It'll be a work of art, I'll assure you. The prototype will be out of 7075-T651 aluminum... not that trashy 6061-T6 stuff. I'm hoping, if the cost isn't prohibitive, to construct the mill out of 304 SST. as much as possible, not withstanding bearings, etc.



Please, if you guys have any other requests for a 'perfect' malt mill, feel free to jump right in and put your two cents in.

A little background on me.

I own a cnc machine shop in San Diego. Most of my experience has been in machining exotic alloys for the bio-tech/medical, deep sea exploration, aerospace and space technology fields. My parts have flown in air and space, been to the depths of the seas, and helped repair skeletal defects in humans. No part is too complex... just sometimes cost prohibitive.

Mechanical engineer in the aerospace biz here. No need to go to the cost of 7075. The 6061 will be more than adequate given the stress levels in the mill. 304 for the rollers? Now you're talkin'! After using the mill at my LHBS, I really don't see the point in the 6 inch rollers. Who cares if it takes a minute or a minute and a half to grind the grains for a batch. Besides that extra stainless isn't going to come cheap.

I've got to say....


That freakin' BarleyCrusher is a super-freak.... my efficiency still sucks, so there's something else going on, but DAMN that was a nice crush!

raceskier said:

Mechanical engineer in the aerospace biz here. No need to go to the cost of 7075. The 6061 will be more than adequate given the stress levels in the mill. 304 for the rollers? Now you're talkin'! After using the mill at my LHBS, I really don't see the point in the 6 inch rollers. Who cares if it takes a minute or a minute and a half to grind the grains for a batch. Besides that extra stainless isn't going to come cheap.

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You being an engineer, what do you think of using two long spline gears as rollers to crush the grain? I was interested in this but somehow think it'd compact the grain rather than break it open. It may even jam the gears too. Ideas?

I have a concept of a mill that has two fixed round rollers out of SST, spaced 0.070 apart with a bar that raises between the lower part of the rollers to adjust the grain size down to 0.040. That's easier to adjust than rollers. In the lower position, you'd get 0.070 grains and in the upper position you'd get 0.040 grains. The bar would be adjusted from the outside. No need to clear the hopper or dismantle the mill.

the_bird said:

I've got to say....


That freakin' BarleyCrusher is a super-freak.... my efficiency still sucks, so there's something else going on, but DAMN that was a nice crush!

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Now why does your eff suck? We might need to review your methods and equipment.

I have to confirm what it was. I might have hit ~70%, which would be a 10% or 15% improvement. I forgot my PH buffer (again ), so I might have had some PH issues.

Next brew is going to be a simple, clean, 1050 - 1055ish pale/amber ale. If I can't get that up to 75%, I'm going to be looking for answers....

Oedipus Rex said:

You being an engineer, what do you think of using two long spline gears as rollers to crush the grain? I was interested in this but somehow think it'd compact the grain rather than break it open. It may even jam the gears too. Ideas?

I have a concept of a mill that has two fixed round rollers out of SST, spaced 0.070 apart with a bar that raises between the lower part of the rollers to adjust the grain size down to 0.040. That's easier to adjust than rollers. In the lower position, you'd get 0.070 grains and in the upper position you'd get 0.040 grains. The bar would be adjusted from the outside. No need to clear the hopper or dismantle the mill.

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I'm not sure this would be fine enough. I have my mill set at .028 and get a very fine crush. I may back it off to .032 or so though. One thing I wish my mill did have was to have both rollers geared. I find that the dummy roller will sometimes get stuck and I'll have to gently turn it to get it going again. Part of that is probably because I have it set too fine. But I like a really fine crush and haven't had a stuck sparge in ages.

jdoiv said:

I'm not sure this would be fine enough. I have my mill set at .028 and get a very fine crush. I may back it off to .032 or so though. One thing I wish my mill did have was to have both rollers geared. I find that the dummy roller will sometimes get stuck and I'll have to gently turn it to get it going again. Part of that is probably because I have it set too fine. But I like a really fine crush and haven't had a stuck sparge in ages.

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Great to hear from you. As I've said before, I'm not a home brewer. From what I've read online, it seems that people usually go for two different grinds... 0.04 and 0.07 . It was my intention to make a mill that even someone loaded on beer could run efficiently without screwing up the grind. But its easy enough to adjust the rough print to accommodate a finer grind before machining the prototype. So, now I have three different grind configurations to consider (0.025, 0.040, and 0.070). Not bad.


Anyone else have any suggestions?

the_bird said:

I have to confirm what it was. I might have hit ~70%, which would be a 10% or 15% improvement. I forgot my PH buffer (again ), so I might have had some PH issues.

Next brew is going to be a simple, clean, 1050 - 1055ish pale/amber ale. If I can't get that up to 75%, I'm going to be looking for answers....

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I'm right between 70-72% with the crusher and PH stabilizer.

I'm beginning to think my 10-gallon Rubbermaid lends itself to the problem. I’m thinking that a bigger surface area like you’d get in a 60 Qt rectangular would make a difference.

Bird…what kind of mash tun do you use?

9 gallon Coleman Xtreme (rectangular). Not a huge amount of surface area; why do you think that would make a difference? The last mash ended up pretty thin after the infusions I had to do to make my temp.

My thermometer (brand farkin' new) got f*ckered up at some point along the way, too... I'm sticking with my digital pen thermo, seems to work the best for me.

the_bird said:

...why do you think that would make a difference?...

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I always think in terms of extremes when “theorizing”.

Imagine two mash tuns with 25 pounds of grain for an 11 gallon batch.

One is a rectangular mash tun 5 feet wide, 2 feet from front to back and 1 foot deep…with a manifold running the perimeter of the bottom and crossing every 6 inches or so, front to back.

The other is a round mash tun, only 15 inches across and 7 feet high…with a square manifold fitting the bottom of the cooler. (Like I said…think “extreme&#8221

Both have more than enough room to accommodate the grains and strike/sparge water.

It just seems unlikely to me that the deep, dense, narrow grain bed of the round tun will allow the sugar to release and flow as freely as the larger, shallower tun. I have to believe there is some correlation between grain bed depth/density, and efficiency.

All things being equal, the only way I can prove this is to go buy a large rectangular cooler and to one of my normal (albeit phenomenal ) recipes…keeping all other process the same.

One thing that I *am* going to try is fashioning a copper manifold to replace the SS braid I've been using. I've got some copper tubing (pipe, actually, not the bendy-stuff) left over from when I re-did my chiller. I'll buy some elbows, some Ts, and fashion something up, see if there's any improvement at all.

Don't I look like the kind of guy who loves to solder copper pipe together?

I won't do that until after the next batch... a simple pale/amber ale to act as a control.

You batch sparging, or fly, BM?

the_bird said:

One thing that I *am* going to try is fashioning a copper manifold to replace the SS braid I've been using. I've got some copper tubing (pipe, actually, not the bendy-stuff) left over from when I re-did my chiller. I'll buy some elbows, some Ts, and fashion something up, see if there's any improvement at all.

Don't I look like the kind of guy who loves to solder copper pipe together?

I won't do that until after the next batch... a simple pale/amber ale to act as a control.

You batch sparging, or fly, BM?

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I batch sparge...and don't solder those joints. A dry fit is all you want and they'll hold plenty tight.

Welding makes it more work than it needs to be and nearly impossible to clean the thing out.

I've never had my manifold so much as budge once dry fit together. Remember to cut plenty of slits and keep them on the down side.

C'mon, I *love* soldering! I ever post pics of MY beast chiller?

the_bird said:

C'mon, I *love* soldering! I ever post pics of MY beast chiller?

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You just like dropping hot solder on your naked “what nots”.

You act like I'm the only person who solders sans pants!

(wow, this got real quick...)

agentgonzo said:

Does anyone know of where to get a decent mill in the UK? The Barley Crusher seems to be great, but there's only one place in the UK that seems to sell it and it's listed at £150, over twice as expensive as buying it in the USA!

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£150 for the Barley Crusher is crazy - with the current exchange rate that's almost three times what the 7 lb version costs in the US. I guess international postage to send a mill across t'Atlantic would be around $40, so the cheapest way to pick up a grain mill would probably be to get it posted direct from the US. Got any distant rellies in the States?

BierMuncher said:

I'm right between 70-72% with the crusher and PH stabilizer.

I'm beginning to think my 10-gallon Rubbermaid lends itself to the problem. I’m thinking that a bigger surface area like you’d get in a 60 Qt rectangular would make a difference.

Bird…what kind of mash tun do you use?

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I know I'm not near as experienced as either of you but I don't think the rubbermaid is the problem. I'm getting 80% with the Barley Crusher and my 5gal rubbermaid. I have done several beers with between 12 and 12.5# of grain, so the grain bed takes up better than half the depth of the cooler.
I have a short SS braid in the cooler and do two batch sparges with 175F water.

The Barley Crusher really made a difference for me.

Craig

I pulled the trigger on a 7 pound Barley Crusher today and I'm quite excited about it.

I choose the Barley Crusher for the following reasons:

1.) I hate companies that change hands. I've been screwed too many times by web hosts being bought or merged to feel comfortable with either a Monster Mill or a Crank and Stein.

2.) BierMuncher's "Customer Service" post - it doesn't get much better than that.

I choose the 7 pound hopper because I have a small apartment.

Are any of these mills adjustable enough to make flour, if you wanted to? SWMBO may be more likely to let me buy a mill, if I tell her we can use it to make bread.

I bought the BC because everyone who has it loves it. I also like that its hand-made in America...

the_bird said:

Don't I look like the kind of guy who loves to solder copper pipe together?

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You used to

Soulive said:

I bought the BC because everyone who has it loves it. I also like that its hand-made in America...

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I asked my wife to get me one for Christmas for the same reason. Luckily she did.

I just brewed 2 batches with the BC and had 80% or better on both batches. I love the fact that it is ready to go right out of the box. Had the Crank came with a better looking hopper, I might have gone that way.

I ordered a Crankenstein 3D today, mainly because I am going to use it at work for crushing 2000Lbs of Magnesium Hydroxide before I get it. My boss is paying for it, and I didn't want anything with the name barley in it.

(Magnesium Hydroxide is a chemical used in potable water treatment, so will be perfectly safe to use for grain after)