Recipe Critique Please - Black IPA

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Jayhem

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First attempt at a black IPA (essentially this is a Cascadian Dark Ale). I make a pretty good Columbus/Cascade American IPA so I wanted to expand on that. Would like an IPA that has some malt depth behind the hops with black color being very unique for an IPA.

Please comment/suggest. These are the only 2 "C-hops" I also have right now.

UPDATED RECIPE:

5.5 Gal batch (All Grain)

11.5 lb 2-Row Pale (81%)
1 lb Munich
1 lb C-80
10 oz debittered black malt (Carafa III)
2 oz Chocolate malt

Mash for 60 min @ 150-152F

Bittering addition at 80 min and then Hop bursting with Columbus and Cascade for last 25 minutes of boil to get 86 IBU's with an 80 minute boil. Dry hopping with 2oz Cascades for 10 days.

BU:GU ratio is 1.3

Nottingham Ale yeast from 2L starter

OG: 1.068
FG: 1.017
6.8% ABV
IBU: 86
Color 32 SRM
 
i personally would lose the sugar but thats just me. if youre looking for higher grav, go for it!

*edit*
im also a fan on throwing in lots of hops at the end of a boil to give an awesome nose to an IPA.
 
i personally would lose the sugar but thats just me. if youre looking for higher grav, go for it!

*edit*
im also a fan on throwing in lots of hops at the end of a boil to give an awesome nose to an IPA.


Thanks.

I was hesitant on the sugar but was worried all the specialty grains would make this too malty and wanted to dry it out just a little. I guess I could loose the sugar and just mash at like 150F instead?

I am using one bittering hop addition @ 80 min and then hop bursting the rest every 5 minutes from 25 down to flame out. I'm also dry hopping with 2oz of Cascades for 7 days in secondary.
 
Thanks.

I was hesitant on the sugar but was worried all the specialty grains would make this too malty and wanted to dry it out just a little. I guess I could lose the sugar and just mash at like 150F instead?

Yes.

I would also lose the Roast Barley and just use 1/2lb of Carafa III. Too much roast/burnt and it will be an American Stout, not a CDA.
 
I don't have Carafa and my LHBS is 45 minutes away. What if I just lose the Roast Barley and up the debittered black malt to keep it over 32 SRM? My understanding is that debittered black malt adds color without much burnt/roasted flavors?
 
Lose the Roasted Barley. the idea is to have black color but little roast character. Hence the reason Carafa III (debittered black is Carafa) is used.

also - take a look at my black ipa recipe for comparison (its a double ipa so compare accordingly).

cheers
 
Lose the Roasted Barley. the idea is to have black color but little roast character. Hence the reason Carafa III (debittered black is Carafa) is used.

also - take a look at my black ipa recipe for comparison (its a double ipa so compare accordingly).

cheers

Thanks. So my "Debittered black malt" is essentially Carafa? What if I up it to 8oz of debittered, 4 oz of chocolate and 1 lb of C-80? still too roasty in 5.5 gal?

Also I see that you are adding the Carafa in the last 10 minutes of the mash... is this in attempt to add the color while minimizing roasty/burnt flavors?
 
yes - Carafa is just the name given to debittered black by Weyerman malsters.

the Carafa I, II, III monikers indicate the level of SRM it will impart to the beer.

The Crystal 80L will impart some "raisiny" flavors. If you want more of a caramel flavor, use Crystal 60L. Crystal is not just used to impart color, but flavor profile as well. Perhaps you know this, so forgive me if that's the case.

Just depends on what you want in the finished product, but think what you have listed would make a fine black ipa. Give it a try and see!


the final 10 min addition of the CarafaIII is to reduce roast flavor, but many people have made my recipe with the black malt in there for the entire mash and they thought it was fine. In fact, my latest batch of this which is dryhopping now had the black malt in there for the entire 60 mins. So I'll get to see the difference soon enough.
 
yes - Carafa is just the name given to debittered black by Weyerman malsters.

the Carafa I, II, III monikers indicate the level of SRM it will impart to the beer.

The Crystal 80L will impart some "raisiny" flavors. If you want more of a caramel flavor, use Crystal 60L. Crystal is not just used to impart color, but flavor profile as well. Perhaps you know this, so forgive me if that's the case.

Just depends on what you want in the finished product, but think what you have listed would make a fine black ipa. Give it a try and see!


the final 10 min addition of the CarafaIII is to reduce roast flavor, but many people have made my recipe with the black malt in there for the entire mash and they thought it was fine. In fact, my latest batch of this which is dryhopping now had the black malt in there for the entire 60 mins. So I'll get to see the difference soon enough.

Thanks.

The debittered black malt I'm using is 550 SRM.

I knew that C-80 has a deeper flavor profile than C-60 but never tried C-80. I always use C-60 in my Pale Ales and IPA's.

One final question: I see a lot of recipes for Cascadian Dark Ale with BU:GU ratios of around 1.5. I'm at 1.26 with my recipe right now. Do I need more IBU's to balance the extra malts?
 
Ya I would drop the roast and the chocolate and just the debittered black malt. This is a tricky style but the best description I have heard is that if you drink it with your eyes closed you should think it's an IPA with some hints of roast. Sounds like your debittered malt would be similar to Carafa 3.
 
Final recipe I'm going to brew on Thursday night! Milling the grain tonight!

11.5 lb 2-Row Pale (81%)
1 lb Munich
1 lbC-80
10 oz debittered black malt (Carafa III)
2 oz Chocolate malt
 
You are right in step with how my CDA turned out and it was wonderfully delicious. This looks great.
 
+1 for the black wheat. I used 8 oz in a 10g batch and it has the nicest foamy tan head you ever saw. My grain bill was only 2-row, de-bittered black 550L, And black wheat. Very slight roast flavor with a Nelson and Citra hop explosion.
 
I made a BIPA (American) using
Caramel 120 at 10% and
Chocolate at 6%

Added the dark malts to the mash with 15 mins to go.

After pouring in a glass I notice that it's a brown IPA not a black IPA.

Perhaps next time I should mash the dark grains a bit longer. :confused:
 
I made a BIPA (American) using
Caramel 120 at 10% and
Chocolate at 6%

Added the dark malts to the mash with 15 mins to go.

After pouring in a glass I notice that it's a brown IPA not a black IPA.

Perhaps next time I should mash the dark grains a bit longer. :confused:

C-120L is almost 5 times lighter than Carafa III or debittered black malt (550L). Chocolate malt is also only around 300L.
 
I made a BIPA (American) using
Caramel 120 at 10% and
Chocolate at 6%

Added the dark malts to the mash with 15 mins to go.

After pouring in a glass I notice that it's a brown IPA not a black IPA.

Perhaps next time I should mash the dark grains a bit longer. :confused:

Yeah you really need a black malt to get a black color. In this case, Carafa is the malt of choice. Black patent or roasted barley can do the trick as well, but they impart flavors that are not wanted in a BIPA.
 
BREISS MIDNIGHT WHEAT MALT would do the trick. It is what many new CDA recipes call for.
Or the BRIESS BLACKPRINZ MALT looks like the Carafa III equivalent.
 
BREISS MIDNIGHT WHEAT MALT would do the trick. It is what many new CDA recipes call for.
Or the BRIESS BLACKPRINZ MALT looks like the Carafa III equivalent.

I just ordered 1/2 lb of Midnight Wheat and the Blackprinz Malts! :rockin:
 
For those who helped me with this recipe, I thank you.

I ended up doing a 10 gallon batch and here is my final recipe. It's fermenting as I type this on Nov14 2012.

21.5 lbs 2-row
1.5 lbs Munich
1.0 lb C-60
8 oz Midnight Wheat
8 oz Carafa-III
4 oz Chocolate Malt (350L)
1 lb amber DME (I mistakenly thought my efficiency would be too low!)

I sparged too much so had to do a full 120 min boil!

Hops:
2.5 oz Nugget 13AA @ 90
1.0 oz Nugget @ 25
1.0 oz Cascade @ 20
1.0 oz Nugget @ 15
1.0 oz Cascade @ 10
1.0 oz Cascade @ 5
1.0 oz Cascade @ Flame Out
Total: 88 IBU

OG for 10.0 gallons into fermenters = 1.075! I was highly surprised with a mash efficiency of 78%!

Ended up using 2 packets of US-05 dry yeast because I didn't have a starter wort ready.

I transferred almost everything from the kettle into the fermenters other then the heavy protein trub because I didn't want to lose my finishing hops.

20121112_191808.jpg


The day after I took this picture the fermenters went nuts! it looks like a tropical storm inside these things!
 
You won't be disappointed with the Midnight wheat. I love that stuff for my BIPA recipe, especially when combined with Chocolate Malt. Your recipe isn't far off from my standby:

http://www.thebrewguys.com/2011/05/brewing-a-black-ipa-homebrew-recipe/

Thanks for the link. Is that your recipe on that site or you just clone that? Also what is the final SRM color of that beer? I'm worried mine won't be dark enough with an estimated SRM of only 28 (I was shooting for 32).
 
I usually clone that recipe, with minor adjustments (bump chocolate malt up to 8 oz, and dry hop with Willamette and Cascade instead of Nugget and Columbus). It's really tasty.

Final SRM, according to BeerSmith, is 29.4. But that's more than dark enough for me. Once you crash cool or let sit long enough for the yeast to drop out, I bet you'll be where you want to be even at only 28.
 
Nice, thanks! I hadn't thought of dry hopping with Willamette and Cascade. I have both!
 
Best part about dry hopping is you can decide if you need it at the end of fermentation :)

I would guess that based on your higher OG, and the fact that you have a bunch of Nugget at 90 minutes, the bitterness and higher alcohol might benefit from a little dry hopping?
 
Best part about dry hopping is you can decide if you need it at the end of fermentation :)

I would guess that based on your higher OG, and the fact that you have a bunch of Nugget at 90 minutes, the bitterness and higher alcohol might benefit from a little dry hopping?

Yes I will definitely be dry hopping, I love the fresh hop aroma it provides in an IPA or Pale Ale.
 
UPDATE:

One of the best beers I've ever made! I'm surprised by how much chocolate porter taste I get up front but then it hits you with big IPA flavor at the finish. If I close my eyes and drink this it tastes much less like a porter. Amazing what your mind does to you when you expect something to taste different than it does!

This finished at 8.0% ABV. Going to be a hit at the Christmas festivities. :D
 
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