Water in Madrid, Spain....I finally have the report from the local water provider. :)

Hey everyone.

I have finally obtained the water profile of the local water in Spain, Madrid. I am wondering how I can start working out what I have to do/or how I have to treat this type of water with salts? One main issue is that all the data is based on average salt content. It is difficult to work with a water that we dont know the exact salt content....but I am sure there is a way to improve this water and make it a universal brewing water for me and maybe though trial and error improve it.
Then again.....you experienced brewers can surely tell me how to start.
First of all, I was thinking to pour my brewing water into the kettle at least a day before brewing...so that the agents that the local water works used to treat the water such as excess chlorine would disappear. Then....probably the salt treatment comes with epsum, gypsum, NaCl and CaCl....but how shall I start calculating the needed salt to reach a specific profile that I am aiming for if all my given information on my water profile is based on average salt content???

All the info on my local water can be found below (mg/L or you can also call it mg/1.05 quart).

pH 7.2-8
Sulphates (SO4) 5-49
Chloride (CL) 10-30
Calcium (Ca) 8-24
Magnesium (Mg) 1-6
Sodium (Na) 0.5-40
potassium 0.5-1.5
total hardness (mg/L CO3Ca) 25-85
alkalinity (mg/L CO3Ca) 10-60

They dont have the bicarbonate level of the water....but the hardness and alkalinity should do it.

Obviously my main goal is also to get to a more or less 5.4-5.5 Ph for perfect mashing.

The concentration ranges are a bit large, but the overall concentrations are not very high. It should be a fine water to brew with. Narrowing the true concentrations for calcium and alkalinity would be a good idea. Yes, you can calculate the bicarbonate concentration knowing the alkalinity.

mabrungard said:

The concentration ranges are a bit large, but the overall concentrations are not very high. It should be a fine water to brew with. Narrowing the true concentrations for calcium and alkalinity would be a good idea. Yes, you can calculate the bicarbonate concentration knowing the alkalinity.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

If I am not wrong, then the alkalinity multiplied by 1.2 gives the bicarbonate amount, right?
In this case it would be 12-72 which is a really decent level.
Do you think there is a cheap and easy way to find out the true concentrations of calcium and alkalinity?

The factor is 1.22 to convert alkalinity as CaCO3 to bicarbonate. Of course, this assumes that the water pH is low otherwise there would be a portion that is carbonate.

An inexpensive way to confirm calcium and alkalinity values in your current water supply is to use test kits intended for aquarium use. A better way is to obtain more detailed test kits from manufacturers such as Hach or Lamotte.

In your pH range one finds bicarbonate by dividing the mg/L as CaCO3 by 50 and then multiplying by the molecular weight of the bicarbonate ion which is 61. As 61/50 is 1.22 using 1.2 would be close enough. But you don't really care about bicarbonate. What you care about is alkalinity as it is that number that tells you how much acid you need to get correct mash pH. If you have a bicarbonate value you have to convert that back to alkalinity to calculate the acid requirement.

Alkalinity is, for the reasons given above, the most important of the water paramaters and as yours varies from unappreciable up to the point where it will be a problem for some beers you will either need to know what it is each time you brew or minimize its effects (and the variability) by diluting with RO water. I don't know how easy or difficult that might be for you in Spain. In the US RO equipment is sold in home improvement stores and RO water in many supermarkets.

It is indeed easy to measure both alkalinity and hardness. Simple test kits are sold by aquarium suppliers because people who keep fish need to control both of these parameters. The ones most home brewers in the US seem to by are made by a German company and so I assume they are easy to find throughout Europe. Or, if you are so inclined, you can do alkalinity testing using simple laboratory equipment. The process is described in detail at
http://www.wetnewf.org/pdfs/measuring-alkalinity.html.

If you have access to a supply of RO water you can dilute your water 1:1 or 2:1 (RO:tap) and use the recommendations of the Primer at
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/
as a starting point for your salt additions. From there you can go on to as much or little increased sophistication in your water treatment as you like.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

ajdelange said:

In your pH range one finds bicarbonate by dividing the mg/L as CaCO3 by 50 and then multiplying by the molecular weight of the bicarbonate ion which is 61. As 61/50 is 1.22 using 1.2 would be close enough. But you don't really care about bicarbonate. What you care about is alkalinity as it is that number that tells you how much acid you need to get correct mash pH. If you have a bicarbonate value you have to convert that back to alkalinity to calculate the acid requirement.[/url].

If you have access to a supply of RO water you can dilute your water 1:1 or 2:1 (RO:tap) and use the recommendations of the Primer at
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/
as a starting point for your salt additions. From there you can go on to as much or little increased sophistication in your water treatment as you like.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Click to expand...

Shall I just buy those Ph stripes on ebay for fish tanks? Like this one? I mean I mainly wanna test my water before the grains go in. Are those stripes any good for that?

You are not really concerned with pH, bicarbonate or carbonate because alkalinity rolls all three into the one number you need - the amount of acid to add to take care of the water. Drop count kits are accurate enough for brewing purposes: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003SNCHMA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

ajdelange said:

You are not really concerned with pH, bicarbonate or carbonate because alkalinity rolls all three into the one number you need - the amount of acid to add to take care of the water. Drop count kits are accurate enough for brewing purposes: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003SNCHMA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the info.

That drop kit looks great....but has a 13-dollar shipping charge.

I'm sure you can find aquarium test kits locally in Madrid. They are very common tools for salt-water aquarium keepers.

@Elysium.
How did you go about getting the report in the first place. I am in the south of Spain and would appreciate some guidance
Thanks