People who've had their stands powercoated (or not just paint): need advice.

I'm at the stage where I'm ready to coat the frame. I started off with high-temp paint but after the massive amount of paint it's taken and the fact it needs to be properly cured, I've decided powdercoating may be a better option.

However, I had a setback today in that the powdercoater didn't want to touch the frame as they're deathly afraid it's not going to withstand the heat and I'll be knocking in their doors.

So I'm here to find out how well the powdercoated frames have been holding up. The stand is built out of 2" square mild steel. The wind shields are 3" mild steel strip. It looks like I may need to cut these out and convert to stainless around the burners and then powdercoating may be ok.

Any advice would be appreciated. Open to other suggestions too.

Powdercoat is cured at about 400*F. Steel becomes plastic at 2000*F.
I think your powdercoater is BS'ing you.

I would go to somebody who likes good beer or wants to learn how to make beer (that's what I did) and wants to exchange goods for services.

Uh, I think the powdercoater is afraid of his product not standing up to the heat...Not the stand fellas.. I am also considering powdercoating my stand and will discuss this with my guy today.. I will get back to you with his opinion.. JJ

When I read the first post, I interpreted it as saying that the powder coat-er was concerned that the powder coat, once applied, would not hold up to the heat generated by the burners when the stand is used. Then the OP would be upset if the coat flaked off or chipped, or failed, or whatever... I've like the high temp engine paint pictures that I've seen. How well does that hold up? How much does it cost? What's the difference in cost between high temp engine paint and powder coating?

I started to go down that route (high-temp engine paint) - but my problem with that is in order to do it properly it has to be baked to cure. I don't have an oven big enough sitting around to fit a Brutus in

Don't a lot of people just turn on the burners to bake it on? I'm assuming most people don't have ovens that big, except for maybe powder coaters People have used it, to seemingly success. Good to have experience chime in here ....

I don't know of any commonly available finish that will hold up to exposure to direct flame including powder coatings and high temperature paint. They probably do exist, but I'm also fairly sure that they would be expensive and require all kinds of special application procedures and curing. The powder coating will most likely be just fine where it is not exposed to direct flame. I would just assume that the coating on the wind screens won't last, but so what? Everything else should be OK.

Ya.. I think if I change the wind/burner shields out to stainless and leave them uncoated, then powder coat the rest I should be ok. Agreed?

Agree with Catt about the powder coat damage on the wind screens, also the top of your stand where the kettle is sitting will be damaged. you will need to protect any area you don't want damaged.

jcaudill said:

Ya.. I think if I change the wind/burner shields out to stainless and leave them uncoated, then powder coat the rest I should be ok. Agreed?

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Sounds like a good plan. I don't know if you can weld stainless to mild steel, but it's probably doable. If it were me, I would leave them as mild steel and if the coating flakes off, so be it or not coat the windscreens in the first place.

rekoob said:

Agree with Catt about the powder coat damage on the wind screens, also the top of your stand where the kettle is sitting will be damaged. you will need to protect any area you don't want damaged.

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Maybe not. His wind screens will also serve to shield the frame from very high temps and he is using the 6" ring burners, not the big, high output multi-jet wok burners or a Banjo type. The powder coating can withstand fairly high temperatures, but I'm not sure what the max is.

Just got off the phone with a local powdercoater.. He figured the Hi Temp coating would work fine.. of course direct flame impingement for several hours will eventually harm the finish. He also suggested that a ceramic coating could be used on the top and regular / hi temp on the rest..

Based on coating 50 feet of 2inch square tubing....60-80 bucks. not bad considering im already about $800 deep into this project! hahaha JJ

Catt22 said:

Sounds like a good plan. I don't know if you can weld stainless to mild steel, but it's probably doable.

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I agree.
Yes, you can weld them. You just need the right wire/electrode (309L) and the right gas (Argon wih 2.5% CO2).

Can anyone yield a wild ass guess on what the temps would be like around the burner?

Jc,
I have a powder coated stand. powder coat will burn. I had a meltdown,literally. However, I found the fix. I made stainless inserts out of 1.5x1.5 stainless angle. I'll send pics later. Diatonic did the same thing. He reports the same success.Powder coat your frame and never look back. cleans easily and will not rust. The insert is made to be smaller than the burner hole and has spacers which allow the frame to stick up and not touch your frame. Pm me and I'll send you some pics. Its a heat shield so to speak. My frame isn't a branding iron either. Oh, if you make wind screens, use stainless. It will Patina and look good.
Snake10

Snake10 said:

Jc,
I have a powder coated stand. powder coat will burn. I had a meltdown,literally. However, I found the fix. I made stainless inserts out of 1.5x1.5 stainless angle. I'll send pics later. Diatonic did the same thing. He reports the same success.Powder coat your frame and never look back. cleans easily and will not rust. The insert is made to be smaller than the burner hole and has spacers which allow the frame to stick up and not touch your frame. Pm me and I'll send you some pics. Its a heat shield so to speak. My frame isn't a branding iron either. Oh, if you make wind screens, use stainless. It will Patina and look good.
Snake10

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I did something very similar, and added heat vents (also like diatonic) in the skirt of the keg. No problems so far with the keg sitting right on the powdercoat.

Thanks all! The coaters have all the information and are coming up with a plan. Once I know, I'll let you know. I think this is probably great information for everyone to have.

Jc,
High temp powder coat will cost more than regular. It won't make it with a direct flame. Good luck, though.the flame will swirl underneath your keg and the flames will lick your frame. It will suck. Just being positive.
Snake10

High temp powder coat is out for areas in direct contact with flames - that's already been established. However ceramic coating on the top part of the stand looks like a strong candidate.

Also bare in mind I am not using those big BG-14 burners like you have. My burners have 5" of clearance on both sides so the chances of flames ever creeping around the kettle sides is really unlikely.

JC,
Finally get a chance to show you what I mean by "inserts". The last picture has stainless blocks which are now welded in place. My kegs sit on the blocks. The blocks raise the kegs up and allow the burner exhaust to exit under the keg without swirling. I brew in my garage so I don't have wind shields. I am about to make some portable wind shields for kicks. My frame is warm to the touch even after a 90 minute boil. In one of the pictures you may see some of my initial melt-down. But overall I was able to save the look. My next build will have the inserts before I do a test run!
Sanke10

Snake10 said:

JC,
Finally get a chance to show you what I mean by "inserts". The last picture has stainless blocks which are now welded in place. My kegs sit on the blocks. The blocks raise the kegs up and allow the burner exhaust to exit under the keg without swirling. I brew in my garage so I don't have wind shields. I am about to make some portable wind shields for kicks. My frame is warm to the touch even after a 90 minute boil. In one of the pictures you may see some of my initial melt-down. But overall I was able to save the look. My next build will have the inserts before I do a test run!
Sanke10

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Looks good and a very creative solution. I'm surprised that no one had addressed the issue sooner.

I tend to agree with the masses here. The areas that are in direct proximity to the flame may be damaged, but overall I think you will be fine. Your thoughts of SS screens (or inserts) should work too. Might be some discoloration after use, but that is just character. Besides, I assume your building it for use, not to be a trailer queen, right?

Also,
You could have screens but where the keg/pot sits on the frame, would melt. As for the stainless, it does discolor but is nice looking. It looks like a keggle after its been on a burner, the copperish color. Like Mason says, its for use but it could be hauled to another place to brew.
Snake10

Just wanted to post a quick pic up of what I ended up doing:



I decided to go with a ceramic coating. I haven't really seen anyone else do this and it can withstand a significantly higher temperature than any powdercoat. This particular coating is called Cermachrome and is typically used on hot engine parts like exhaust manifolds or downpipes. It polishes to a brilliant chrome look. Mine is not quite as bright because I just knocked it down with scotchbrite and polished it with aluminum polish. The burner supports were put through a tumbler and look incredible. If only they could have tumbled the whole thing!

jcaudill said:

The burner supports were put through a tumbler and look incredible.

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And where are the pics...?

BTW: polished or not, it still looks great.

I will post some better close-up pics soon... I was short on time today and exhausted from polishing

That looks really awesome! Now its time to see what a flame will do to it. I can't wait for the results of this one! I'm on pins and needles. Put some fire to that baby!!!
Snake10

So what did that set you back? I'm looking at doing a build this summer perhaps and that looks awesome!

Snake10 said:

Now its time to see what a flame will do to it.

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I doubt it'll do any damage.
Ceramic coating is used for exhaust headers, not only on he outside of the tube, but also on the inside, because it prolongs the life of the header and minimizes restriction. If it can take the flames from the engine, a propane burner should be a walk in the park.

Very nice. I'm building a stand and still face the Powdercoat / Paint question.

How much prep work did you have to do to the stand before they took it? How much prep did they do?

Ed

They bead blasted it before they coated it so all you really need to do is just the normal finish work like grinding welds, etc. then hand it off to them! The bulk of the work comes after the stand is coated - just knocking off the dull finish as it comes out of oven to expose the shine.

Did they need to see your stand to give you an estimate, or did you just describe it to them?

I just gave them the dimensions and showed them a picture - that was good enough for estimate purposes.

Where is this kind of work done? Body Shop? Engine Pro Shop?

Powder Coat vs. Ceramicoat... how big of a price difference?

I used Black Muffler paint on my stand. It's been 2 yrs since I've painted it and have brewed countless batches. The paint holds up extremely well and has not burned off yet. I highly recommend looking into using it.

jcaudill said:

They bead blasted it before they coated it so all you really need to do is just the normal finish work like grinding welds, etc. then hand it off to them! The bulk of the work comes after the stand is coated - just knocking off the dull finish as it comes out of oven to expose the shine.

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Did you get normal powdercoat? There shouldnt be any reason to buff or polish any powdercoating.... if it comes out dull they used the rong stuff or asnt cured at a high enough temp.....

He said it is a ceramic coating called Cermachrome.

Right - ceramic. Normally when they apply this to car parts they're able to put them through a tumbler and they polish brilliantly this way. Obviously a brewstand is a bit too big so I had to simulate that as best as possible

It cost about 100 bucks more than a high-temp powdercoat but can take 3 times as much heat so crossing my fingers the problems people have with their powdercoatings melting is solved for a small additional investment.

To answer who does these coatings: same people as powdercoaters normally but not every one will do ceramic and certainly not necessarily this cermachrome finish which is unique because it fully cures at 500 degrees.

oops sorry i should have read the whole thread lol, the ceramic coating will hold up to the heat, i have ceramic coated headers and i imagine they can get in the range of 1000-1500 degrees, ive seen turbo engines with theyre headers glowing red and have the ceramic coating hold up well.