Chill Haze

As I get this problem, I have been reading up about it. It seems I should
1) put dry grain in mash tun and fill from bottom
2) not worry if some "bits" come out with mash liquor
3) not return any runnings to mash tun
4) not over sparge the mashed grains
5) avoid oxidysing the pre boil mash liquor (ie minimise splashing during transfer)
6) have a strong rolling boil of at least 60 minutes
7) mash out for 20 minutes at 77 deg C
8) cool down to 20 deg c as quickly as possible after boil
9) do not agitate / aerate liquor during this chilling
10) use some darker grains and add them during mash out

At present I carelessly pour the wort into the boiler, aerating it, I don't mash out at all, and after boil I vigorously agitate my cooling coil in the liquor to increase cooling rate. I shall use the 10 principles above in my next brew. Please tell me what you think about the 10 principles above, and have I missed any? thanks.

My first impression is that there is no need to aerate your wort prior to boil. In fact (depending on your views of Santa Claus and the aerodynamics of his sleigh) this may result in undesirable off-flavors.

I would make adjustments to your process incrementally, rather than doing all of your steps at once. In order, I would:

- make sure you get rapid cooling
- be sure to get a boil... how "hard" a boil you get, in my opinion, and for how long depends largely on the grains and adjuncts you've used, but this is as much for flavor as clarity
- if you use lots of grain adjuncts, try a cereal mash, and beyond that, try a protein rest
- give your beer a good aging in secondary, or in the bottle, preferrably at a cold temperature

Pounds Sterling to Doughnuts, you'll find a greatly improved clarity from one or all of these steps, without having to worry about your vorlauf.

thanks, but note I am NOT trying to aerate wort prior to boil, point 5 is AVOID aerating, I shall implement them all because I see improvement possibility, and then I shall look at water - which I do not modify, I boil tap water 30 minutes and cool to 72 deg f and add pale malt grain.

IMO, these helped my chill haze issues the most:

11) Add Irish Moss to boil @ 30min
12) Use Finings (gelatin or polyclar) about a week before bottling or kegging

...just sayin'

- M

chill haze is caused by an improper cold break. you have to drop the temp of your wart as fast as possible. i use an immersion wort chiller and put the brew pot on top of a block of dry ice in a small tub of regular ice.

then once the wart is below 80F i aerate.

#2 should read worry if grain bit get into your boiler. you vorlauf to make sure your wort runs clear before draining. clear means no husks or bits getting transfered.

1) B.S.
2) Worrying is a negative emotion, and never cures anything
3) B.S.
4) True, but shouldn't affect chill haze
5) True, but shouldn't affect chill haze
6) Yes
7) B.S.
8) Yes
9) True, but shouldn't affect chill haze
10) B.S.
11) Don't chill below 13C

-a.

I think that is a long list of BS... Sometimes I dont even chill my wort, I pour grain into hot water to mash in... some of those things I cannot imagine have anything to do with precipitating out protiens... What are the explainations for those items? Or is it just because someone said so... I mean, what are the mechanics behind them?

There are times I dont even CHILL my wort. Takes about 24 hours, want to know what happens to my beer? This. Rapid cooling doesnt seem to be necessary huh?

Sorry pol but the complete lack of condensation suggest that the beer is not cold enough to exhibit any chill haze. It doesn't look all that cold outside there.

Conroe said:

Sorry pol but the complete lack of condensation suggest that the beer is not cold enough to exhibit any chill haze. It doesn't look all that cold outside there.

Click to expand...

Well, you are wrong, it was 38F.

It helps when trying to get a photo of a clear beer, to wipe away the condensation, helps the photos.

I can pull beers all day long that look like that, just need a towel.

If I were you I would have left some condensation just for proof.

Well, I dont lie to make myself look cool... so I didnt think Id need proof.

I have a hard time even getting the camera to focus beyond the glass. I just get a reflection of myself. Nice pic. If it had a lot of condensation it would be a great pic.

I'm not calling you a liar, just looking at your evidence.
Are you ever going to kill that keg with Fire in the hole? I remember you brewed that before I did and mine was gone at last Christmas.

one of the answers says mash out at 77 deg c is "BS" do we all agree on that...will find the source of this info and post it in full later on today.

here is the reference

Hot Side Aeration and Beer Stability

by Micah Millspaw
Introduction


This article was originally published in the American magazine Zymurgy and looks at hot side aeration and beer stability, the reactive effects of oxygen on hot wort and some methods for reducing the effects.
Oxidation and Melanoidins

Conroe said:

I have a hard time even getting the camera to focus beyond the glass. I just get a reflection of myself. Nice pic. If it had a lot of condensation it would be a great pic.

I'm not calling you a liar, just looking at your evidence.
Are you ever going to kill that keg with Fire in the hole? I remember you brewed that before I did and mine was gone at last Christmas.

Click to expand...

Ive got 7 kegs worth of beer here... so, I have to find an open tap. I will get it on when the Hefe is gone.

Just listen to the last Brew Strong with guest Dr. Bamforth about beer haze and you will have all your answers. Listened to it yesterday and learned a lot.

I have only had one problem with chill haze. But it was a hefe so it wasn't bothersome. I would go with some irish moss @ 15 mins during the boil. That has always cleared my beer before bottling.

I typically toss in whirflock at the last 5 minutes and have an incredible break when chilling. When my lagers go to the fermentor, they look like bottled BMC

BOBTHEukBREWER said:

here is the reference

Hot Side Aeration and Beer Stability

by Micah Millspaw
Introduction


This article was originally published in the American magazine Zymurgy and looks at hot side aeration and beer stability, the reactive effects of oxygen on hot wort and some methods for reducing the effects.
Oxidation and Melanoidins

Click to expand...

I was wondering if that was where you had gotten some info (the not recirculating stuff).

I don't mean to diss Millspaw, who is a very good and intelligent home brewer, but I think he has the effect on chill haze of HSA backwards.

Charles Bamforth mentions that HSA leads to more colloidal stability in both of his BN appearances and even George Fix, who was one of the first and most vocal advocates of reducing HSA admitted this (however he thought the positives outweighed the negatives).

I already use irish moss, and they are crystal clear after a week at 22 deg C, but if I refridgerate, or ambient garage temperature drops to 6-7 deg C, I get the chill haze.

BOBTHEukBREWER said:

I already use irish moss, and they are crystal clear after a week at 22 deg C, but if I refridgerate, or ambient garage temperature drops to 6-7 deg C, I get the chill haze.

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Of course you do, everyone does. Because it is precipitating, it will precipitate out given time.

Now I am very confused - is chill haze inevitable, and, a new related question, can I use papain enzyme treatment to get rid of it ? thanks

ok maybe there is a miss communication about your symptom. when the beer is cold there is a haze when the beer warms up the haze goes away. that is chill haze. to combat this problem you have to have a proper cold break at the end of brewing. once you do, whirlpool then siphon the wart into the fermenter. do not pour the cooled wart into the fermenter if you do you will just be adding the cold and hot break materials back into you wart defeating the purpose of having a hot and cold breaks in the first place.

Basically, no matter what you do, unless you filter your beer, you will have some chill haze until you let it stay chilled so that it can precipitate out. I have never seen a HBing process that will eliminate all chill haze without precipitating it out cold.

No amount of cold break of siphoning will eliminate chill haze. Why? How cold are you getting it? 65F? Well that is all well and good, except there are still tannins and protiens that are NOT precipitated out until you cool the temp. to serving temp. Which is exactly why your beer is clear when warm, and not when it is chilled.

Whenever my beer becomes crystal clear
I know that the end of the keg is near
But I rarely ever fret or fear
I just hook up another keg of beer.

oswegan said:

Whenever my beer becomes crystal clear
I know that the end of the keg is near
But I rarely ever fret or fear
I just hook up another keg of beer.

Click to expand...

I nominate oswegan as the Poet Laureate of HBT. :rockin:

I do a 20 min. protein rest around 130 f regardless of the grain bill. Never had a chill haze problem even when my coldbreak wasn't all that rapid.

Completely anecdotal story here, and I'm not sure if this applies to an all grain disussion as I'm still doing extracts. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

As a comparison/test with one batch, I put some beer in the fridge soon after carbonation was complete, while the rest of the beer stayed in the basement (50 degrees or so). As somewhat expected, when cooled the beer in the fridge soon developed chill haze. After a number of weeks, some beer was taken out of storage and put in the fridge for a couple of days in preparation for consumption.

While the beer that had been in the fridge for the whole time had cleared for the most part, the beer that had been stored at 50 degrees developed no appreciable chill haze and was noticeably clearer than the beer that had been in the fridge the whole time. I don't know, maybe given more time the beer would have developed haze, but what my incredibly unscientific test suggests to me is that, depending on the time alloted, beer that is susceptible to chill haze may ultimately have less if stored at a more moderate temperature rather than if it is refrigerated right away.