sportscrazed2
Well-Known Member
what is the best method for converting a cooler? going to be doing batch sparging
CPVC vs bazooka screen
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theonetrueruss
Senior Member
Im using a bazooka screen and though I've only done 3 AG batches so far I'm liking it. no stuck sparges yet... and it was hella easy. Get the weldless spigot and the screen and attach to cooler.. instant mash tun.
sportscrazed2
Well-Known Member
you have a link to those weldless spigots? trying to compare prices.
Most people on here are fond of Bargain Fittings . Great service, great prices, great product, IMO.
sportscrazed2
Well-Known Member
thanks looks much cheaper than quick google search i did.
Bazooka screen works very well for me, but it's all I've ever used, so take that with a grain of salt.
Zymies "bazooka screen" is a little too large of a mesh for mash/lautering purposes. You are better off finding the sink or toilet water supply line with SS outside braid, removing the braid from the supply line, then using that as your screen. You can use a much finer malt grind without problems and reaching higher efficiency numbers. Works with any shape vessel when batch sparging.
Denny Conn's SS braid version pic.
Denny Conn's SS braid version pic.
sportscrazed2
Well-Known Member
cpvc seems like much less work than removing the thingy from inside the supply line then threading a wire through it to keep it from collapsing
joeunc
Well-Known Member
Well it depends, it could take quite a while to cut all the slits in the cpvc and you need to have the right tools and you have to be precise. The braid is not that hard to get off.
the braid is on the outside or the supply. Side cutters, or tin snips, cut it clean, then you push both ends toward each other (like the principles of Chinese finger locks). this allows you to slide the mesh right off the supply line. (1 minute max) nothing is needed inside the braid to keep it from collapsing
CPVC you need to either drill a ton of holes or hacksaw blade width cuts.
remember that the length really doesn't matter when batch sparging because you drain the tun completely each sparged batch. the end where the solid tubing stops is the draw point, the rest just acts like a gutter way until the solid tubing is exposed to air, then the siphon is stopped.
mariojr
Well-Known Member
UnDeadly
Member
I use a CPVC manifold, and it works like a champ. I can grind a pretty fine grist if I want to, and no problems.
That said, the work that went into cutting all those slits manually was insane. I would recommend either drilling a bunch of really small holes, or getting a Dremel tool.
That said, the work that went into cutting all those slits manually was insane. I would recommend either drilling a bunch of really small holes, or getting a Dremel tool.
bullinachinashop
Well-Known Member
I used a band saw on my pcvc manifold. Very easy and maybe 15 minutes max.
PT Ray
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For batch sparging you're looking for something that will allow the wort to flow out the quickest. It doesn't require anything to stretch the length of the cooler. The screen will be good for that. For fly sparging you need some type of manifold across the bottom to draw wort form a broader surface area to the spigot.
Exactly.. The fly sparge requires a manifold so there is proper fluid dynamics (the flow is equal through-out the entire beds thickness and surface area)
Batch sparge, fluid dynamics does not come into play because you physically stir the clean water through the entire bed on each sparge.
I use a PVC manifold, then wran a large nylon straining bag over it to filter out most of the small particles.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Zymies "bazooka screen" is a little too large of a mesh for mash/lautering purposes. You are better off finding the sink or toilet water supply line with SS outside braid, removing the braid from the supply line, then using that as your screen. You can use a much finer malt grind without problems and reaching higher efficiency numbers. Works with any shape vessel when batch sparging.
Denny Conn's SS braid version pic.
This is what I do and I didn't thread anything inside the braid. It's worked great on 20ish batches.
matthewkbridges
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I've used both. I started with a Zymie braid, and then moved to a CPVC manifold. The manifold was faster flowing without sticking and cleared faster during vorlauf. The braid/mesh was easier to deal with (I didn't glue my manifold, so I could pull it apart to clean it each time). Overall, though, the CPVC manifold was a clear winner between the two options. I can't speak to other methods from my own experience, but many of my friends swear by false bottoms (ease of use/installation of the braid, performance of the manifold). They're just more expensive.
maida7
Well-Known Member
I prefer the braid.
Less expensive, easier and quicker to fabricate
Does a better job of straining out grain
quicker easier vorlauf
Easier to clean after use
FWIW: I don't have a wire inside my braid and it's never collapsed. Even with big heavy grain beds from high gravity 10 gallon batches.
Less expensive, easier and quicker to fabricate
Does a better job of straining out grain
quicker easier vorlauf
Easier to clean after use
FWIW: I don't have a wire inside my braid and it's never collapsed. Even with big heavy grain beds from high gravity 10 gallon batches.
Northcalais40
Well-Known Member
I think that the answer to your question is both of those options are just fine, as are many other options. You may want to go ahead and invent some new option.
If your beer tastes good, and your efficiency is reasonable, your system is working just fine. But you can probably make it better.
All things being equal, I'd prefer to have an all stainless setup, no plastic at all. But all things are not equal, price-wise.
If your beer tastes good, and your efficiency is reasonable, your system is working just fine. But you can probably make it better.
All things being equal, I'd prefer to have an all stainless setup, no plastic at all. But all things are not equal, price-wise.
maida7
Well-Known Member
I made a CPVC manifold for my cooler MLT. I prefer the manifold as you can fabricate it to fit your cooler exactly and ensure you drain all the sweet sugars from the grain with no to minimal deadspace or channeling. I made a braid once and getting the SS braid off the hose is a mother drucker of a task (reminds me of those silly Chinese thumb traps). The CPVC is easy. Measure the piece, use a hacksaw or Dremel and cut, add the T or elbow fitting, make several half cuts int he tubing and voila a manifold. It took me 15 minutes to fabricate mine, including making all the cuts, from start to finish. CPVC does not leach into the liquid and is designed to handle hot water. I also didnt glue mine as just pressure fitting it together holds it tight and it is easy to disassemble to clean.
I found that SS braids or bazooka braids are better for round cooler MLT's.
I found that SS braids or bazooka braids are better for round cooler MLT's.
+1 to what matthewkbridges said
I started with the SS braid, and then moved to a CPVC manifold. The SS braid was slower and I had a few sticking issues. The CPVC is faster and no stuck sparges. Mine is also not glued, so it comes apart quickly to clean. I'd like to try copper pipe sometime, though what I have works just fine.
I started with the SS braid, and then moved to a CPVC manifold. The SS braid was slower and I had a few sticking issues. The CPVC is faster and no stuck sparges. Mine is also not glued, so it comes apart quickly to clean. I'd like to try copper pipe sometime, though what I have works just fine.
http://jonflash.myweb.uga.edu/mashtun.html
Check it out!
I have never had a stuck sparge, and I love the SS braid. Prolly has been said, but I used a water supply hose line from lowe's (~$3), and removed the inner tubing to get my SS braid. Bazooka tubes are waaaay overpriced for what it is.
The braid isn't going to collapse (should matter anyways, the grain is the real filter, the braid is a way of moving the liquid to the spigot.
The only diff. b/w a SS braid and manifold is the points of suction. SS braid = one point; manifold = many points (however many holes you cut in it).
General consensus is that manifolds are better for fly sparging (i disagree and still use a SS braid) and SS braids are better for batch sparging.
Check it out!
I have never had a stuck sparge, and I love the SS braid. Prolly has been said, but I used a water supply hose line from lowe's (~$3), and removed the inner tubing to get my SS braid. Bazooka tubes are waaaay overpriced for what it is.
The braid isn't going to collapse (should matter anyways, the grain is the real filter, the braid is a way of moving the liquid to the spigot.
The only diff. b/w a SS braid and manifold is the points of suction. SS braid = one point; manifold = many points (however many holes you cut in it).
General consensus is that manifolds are better for fly sparging (i disagree and still use a SS braid) and SS braids are better for batch sparging.
That's where I learned about it too! Brings back some memories.....
With BS you have the ability to drain as fast as you want, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect the beer quality.
Remember that none of the commercial beer you drink is BSed. (for a couple of diff. reasons, but still....)
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
How do you think it affects the quality?
maida7
Well-Known Member
The preference for fly sparge in commercial breweries is related to efficiency and economics, not wort quality. All other factors equal you can expect a small increase in efficiency when fly sparging compared to batch. For a homebrewer that may equate to a few extra ounces of grain per batch. To a large commercial brewer it's could be thousands of dollars per year.
BUT, with batch sparge the gravity of the run off is higher and the pH is lower. Your assured a very even and consistent rinsing of the ENTIRE grain bed. It is much more likely to get a higher quality wort from batch sparging. Under ideal conditions fly sparging can produce nearly equal wort quality but not all homebrew systems are set up and operated in ideal conditions.
How is the gravity higher with BS, but you say you get > eff. with FS? That doesn't make sense.
Wort pH is affected by multiple variables, this blanket statement isn't true. You can fly sparge and keep your pH low.
Compared to FS? How is it more consistent and even?
How is this true? Are you saying that it is more likely for someone that doesn't know what they are doing to get a higher quality wort when BS? That may be true.....but should someone do something just because it is more idiot-proof?
IMO they are both fairly equal. I am currently fly sparging, and I use a SS braid. Pretty ghetto setup......
Well, I didn't say it did or it didn't.
But when running off quickly you have a greater ability to extract astringent flavors that appear in the final product of your beer. This is prolly because the inc. runoff rate = greater suction on the grain bed.
maida7
Well-Known Member
Good question. If you had the same recipe and did identical mash and sparge volumes, the final runnings from the batch sparge will be much higher gravity then the final runnings of the fly sparge. Why? because in the BS has the entire sparge at one set gravity and the FS gravity slowly dwindles over the course of the sparge. so that with a FS at the end of the sparge your dealing with some very low gravity wort. You'd also expect that as the gravity dwindles the pH of the wort to rise during a FS.
Sure it's safe to fly sparge. Under normal conditions pH should not be reaching a dangerous level. But with all other factors the same a batch sparge will have a lower pH. The gravity in the BS is higher and there is more buffering capacity.
With a BS you get to stir all the grain and mix it thoroughly with the sparge water. All areas of the grain bed are equally touched by the sparge water until it is a uniform gravity wort in the lauter tun. With a FS your manifold has a huge impact of the flow of the sparge water and what portions of the bed are rinsed. Channeling and preferential flow can give you uneven rinsing in a FS. You could easily miss rinsing one area and rinse the crap out of another section. Only with an ideal manifold can you be sure that all areas are sparged evenly. A false bottom and a very thick grain bed are close to ideal conditions.
yeah I feel it's easier to screw up a fly sparge. But I think people should use the method that works well for them. I doubt there is any significant difference in wort quality. If wort quality was my only concern, I'd go with a no sparge
I'd agree they are both equal. But you should not go around spouting that BS and running off fast effects beer quality. It's just not true.
PS:A single braid in a long rectangular cooler with minimal bed depth is really not a good fit for fly sparge. You probably could get better quality wort and efficiency by changing your set up. Have a look at Palmer's How to Brew. He goes in depth on manifold design and fly sparge
maida7
Well-Known Member
suction? that's silly
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Bovine - its all good. I was playing devil's advocate, not stating opinion.
"that doesn't mean it doesn't affect the beer quality" is not the same as saying "it does affect beer quality"
maida7 - suction may be silly, but so is Darcy's Law.
I'm just going to disagree (honorably, of course) with a lot of your "answer" post.
Who the hell is Palmer?? :cross:
"that doesn't mean it doesn't affect the beer quality" is not the same as saying "it does affect beer quality"
maida7 - suction may be silly, but so is Darcy's Law.
I'm just going to disagree (honorably, of course
) with a lot of your "answer" post. Who the hell is Palmer?? :cross:
maida7
Well-Known Member
whatever
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