Whats this Setup Worth ?

Well i am new to home brewing but have certainly caught the bug after my first AG batch. A Friend of a Friend is looking to get rid of his Brew System quickly, and has asked me to make an offer. Point is I dont have the slightest idea what its worth, and similar systems online vary immensely

The System:

48 Gallon (1 1/2 bbl)
Includes: mash tun, hot liquor tank, and boiling vessel all made out of stainless steel and outfitted with 0.5" stainless steel ball valves.

The heaters are 4 KW 30 amp 240V single phase each with independent thermostats (3 of them).

A Schmidling Malt Mill.

Two sanitizable, magnetic impeller driven pumps

a stainless steel 30-plate heat exchanger

Pictures can be found here:

Brewery pictures from friends & fun photos on webshots


This would

and various braided PVC tubing.

What other items will I need, I have access to 55 gallon sealable drums which were used to ship apple juice, would a set up like this work. Also I see no mention of cooling, any ideas?


Overall what would be a good deal for this system, IE whats my first offer??

Thanks

Ryan

I think the bigger question is, "Do you need to brew that much beer?". I think $500-$750 would be a really fair offer...but you never know what he is expecting to get.

Truth is, for that kinda money, you could easily put together a nice setup that you wouldn't have to climb inside to clean. I think there's something to be said for buying AG stuff a little at a time so if you change your mind about what equipment is worthwhile, you haven't already committed yourself. Later on down the line, you might decide the plate chiller is a PITA. Also, consider doing a 5 gallon batch on that kettle. It'd barely fill that thing! Plus, you might not want your wort directly in contact with the element.

Do you have access to 220?

I honestly don't have a good answer for you......but it's definitely worth a couple to a few hundred dollars.

Damn. That's a hell of a "Starter kit"



But ScubaSteve is correct. For that money you could really have a nice brewery and have exactly what you want.

Probably at least $500. If you are just getting into AG, this seems like a huge plunge. For me, half the fun is planning future beers AND what future equipment I want to get. This would take some of that fun away. Plus, you have less control over designing your system.

Out of curiousity, is the "friend of a friend" expecting a child soon?

With 8KW to boil 48 gallons how many hours / days is that going to take with only 26,000 BTU's to heat if ever without any insulation? That thing looks like a good idea that went bad from the start. I would pass and build what you want as posted above and use your money wisely.
Only value I see is the grain mill, that maybe is not what you want either. Pump another question, looks like a piston or diaphragm vs a magnetic drive, plate chiller sell it someone might be looking for one but look what comes with it, everything. As for everything else good luck in finding a high gallon brewer like he is. I say pass on the whole thing.

Dang, that's a big coffee can. :cross:

I am not sure if he is expecting a child soon, although it is certainly possible.

I would primarily be doing my smaller batches on my 5 gal setup, but am very interested in possibly supplying beer (assuming I can get a few perfected) to a couple local pubs, as permitting is cheap, and I currently am in a Zoning Free Area. So size wise this would be something I am interested in. From what I gather from you folks you are saying that somewhere around 600-900 would be reasonable. I found out through word of mouth that he countered another offer with the figure of 1700. Does this sound very high. How much would a system like his cost to build roughly. I was expecting the value of each of the stainless drums to be worth 500-600, am I way off?

Brewery pictures from friends & fun photos on webshots

Brew Beemer, Thanks for the input,

From what I gether you are saying that the heating element would not have enough power to bring to boil in a reasonable time? I'm not following you on the plate cooler, are you saying that it is the only thing of value out of the set up? From what I understand the two pumps are magnetic. Is using 55 gallon stainless steel drums not a good idea. I cant seem to find 55 gallon stainless for anything less than 500 a piece. What would the alternative be? If I was building my own from scratch (I do not know how to weld) what would you folks do differently from this setup? Assumong you were looking for a 1 1/2 bbl setup .

Many thanks for the fast responses Guys, this is great .

Ryan

"make me an offer" sounds kind of sketchy. I'd low ball him with $500. If he wants $1700, lol

I cannot get it out of my head, that those are tomato soup cans, and it's is set in a dollhouse, or the photo is taken with a super wide angle lens.

Just looks odd. And sorry I have no clue what that would be worth.

Luck

Ryanmcgrim said:

Well i am new to home brewing...

Click to expand...

Ryanmcgrim said:

...but am very interested in possibly supplying beer (assuming I can get a few perfected) to a couple local pubs...

Click to expand...

These two sentences don't usually follow each other. I'd work on 5 gallon batches for yourself and your process. What happen when one of the pubs says, hey my customers went ape over that last batch, I need 50 more gallons. Can you duplicate it exactly? Do you have fermenting temperature control capabilities?
And assuming you don't get a few perfected, are you setup to drink 50 gallons of a not so great batch or dump? That's a lot of beer of one type for personal consumption.

Your first AG rig should not be one supplying brew to pubs IMHO.

First off,
I want to thank everyone for your input. The reason why i wanted to start brewing beer was 1) I like beer. 2)I really really like beer. 3) I like to be self sufficient. 4) i like to give lots of beer away 5) if there is any possibility that I can get other people to like my beer enough to buy it, that would allow me to spend more money on stuff to make beer. If not, well so be it.

I am sure I am not the only newbie who asks annoying questions along the lines of taking over the world with their new beer, and furthermore, I am certainly aware that I may produce absolute garbage for the next few years that even I wouldn't drink, which is a short list. these are all things I am aware of and am expecting. But quite frankly, in spite of all the cards stacked against me, I am interested in producing a ridiculous amount of beer anyway. Maybe even try to sell it to a few local pubs, simply because I am stuck working a horrible job which is litterally sucking my will to live, and even if I have a 5% chance of having something like this workout, those are odds I am willing to take.

But I would like to know what this setup is worth, so that if things do go horribly bad, and I produce nothing but vinegar, and my pets heads start falling off, I just want to be able to recoup a decent amount of my investment.

If anyone has additional input regarding the worth of this system , that would be great, and believe me, i mean no disrespect to the people, who obviously know their stuff, trying to prevent an overambitious lad from making a big mistake. I truly am grateful to hear your words of wisdom. But I am hard headed and again, want to produce copious amounts of beer even if I have to give it away, quite frankly because more beer , no matter how ill-tasting still is a world with more beer, and thats always a good thing.

If I had to build a brewery capable of producing roughly 50 gallons, would I want to build one similar to this one for sale, and if so what would it cost to accumulate all this crap,

if not, and I should go a different route, what are some ideas?

Thanks again, and to all you folks who are being my voice of reason, I mean you no disrespect, your words are forever marked, and can be called upon later when I have really scr*wed the pooch

I say go for it if you can get it for a decent price.

Before I even made one batch of beer, I built a 1 bbl brutus 10 type system just because I was interested in the hobby.

Now over a year later I have my system at a brewpub. (owner invited me in since i had the equipment)

So I'd just say it depends on where you want to go with it and if you can get it at a good price.

QUOTE=Ryanmcgrim;948125]First off,
I want to thank everyone for your input. The reason why i wanted to start brewing beer was 1) I like beer. 2)I really really like beer. 3) I like to be self sufficient. 4) i like to give lots of beer away 5) if there is any possibility that I can get other people to like my beer enough to buy it, that would allow me to spend more money on stuff to make beer. If not, well so be it.

I am sure I am not the only newbie who asks annoying questions along the lines of taking over the world with their new beer, and furthermore, I am certainly aware that I may produce absolute garbage for the next few years that even I wouldn't drink, which is a short list. these are all things I am aware of and am expecting. But quite frankly, in spite of all the cards stacked against me, I am interested in producing a ridiculous amount of beer anyway. Maybe even try to sell it to a few local pubs, simply because I am stuck working a horrible job which is litterally sucking my will to live, and even if I have a 5% chance of having something like this workout, those are odds I am willing to take.

But I would like to know what this setup is worth, so that if things do go horribly bad, and I produce nothing but vinegar, and my pets heads start falling off, I just want to be able to recoup a decent amount of my investment.

If anyone has additional input regarding the worth of this system , that would be great, and believe me, i mean no disrespect to the people, who obviously know their stuff, trying to prevent an overambitious lad from making a big mistake. I truly am grateful to hear your words of wisdom. But I am hard headed and again, want to produce copious amounts of beer even if I have to give it away, quite frankly because more beer , no matter how ill-tasting still is a world with more beer, and thats always a good thing.

If I had to build a brewery capable of producing roughly 50 gallons, would I want to build one similar to this one for sale, and if so what would it cost to accumulate all this crap,

if not, and I should go a different route, what are some ideas?

Thanks again, and to all you folks who are being my voice of reason, I mean you no disrespect, your words are forever marked, and can be called upon later when I have really scr*wed the pooch[[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. That being said, This particular system look nothing like any others I've seen on this site. Not that that means anything, just not the norm. It is alos nothing like brewery setups. Those barrels look like they would be hard to clean and really get down into. I think that if I was doing a 50Gallon batch I would prefer solid mounted setup with hard gas lines and plumbing for water and wort transfer. I would not do it personally because I enjoy building the pieces individually as I need them. Also each step of the way you find what you prefer. Just look at it in person and ask if you can buy some ingredients and take it for a spin before buying it. See how it flows for you.

Thanks I Pulse,

I appreciate your perspective. Your right, cleaning would be rather difficult it would seem, and i do enjoy building components myself, so that’s another issue I need to consider. He is Firm at $1400, and I guess the big question is can I build my own system for that much? I don’t see anything in stainless in the 35-50 gallon capacity for less than $500 per unit, so right there I am at 1500, then add in the pump, Cooler, filters heaters and Grain Mill, and I am Somewhere north of 2K, i would Imagine, so it seems reasonable.

I like your idea of doing a run on it first before buying, that really would give me a chance to try it out.

Thanks for the help,

Ryan

Also another thing to consider is that you just can't brew some beer, take it to your local pub, and sell it to them (legally that is). If you really wanted to do that there are all kinds of permints, licensing, etc. that will make your head spin and cost thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars.

You can make your own keg-based system for half that price. Plus, I would really encourage you to get to brewing all-grain with a cooler and simple pipe manifold (all of $50 to build yourself). This and a turkey frier (get one with the biggest SS pot you can) for another $60 maybe, and you are able to do all-grain. I do single temp infustion mashes and decoction mashes this way myself, and while I'm enjoying all this beer I can make, I am building my own system.

You can learn how to use a simple wire-feed welder very easily. I didn't know, then a neighbor came over and loaned me his and showed me. 20 minutes later I was welding. I got metal from Home Depot (probably the most expensive place you can buy metal, but I was new at it), and bought two kegs so far and converted them with advice from this board. I got SS valves from B3, site glasses from a bulk buy a guy on here put together, and lids from a local kitchen store. A buddy and I got info from this site and he did the conversions for me with his superior workshop. Now I'm just finding out the propane plumbing and burner info and I'll be finishing up the stand by the end of the year and switching to 10 gallon batches if I wish.

But... by inching along I learned what each part was for, and why I'd want to do it one way or another. I traded beer to my brother and he made me a counter-flow wort chiller based on this site's recommendations. I traded beer to get my kegs converted. I traded beer to get some work done grinding down my welds and starting to dress the stand...

Also, I would echo the PITA of cleaning out 50 gallon drums. You literally will have to lay them on their sides on a padded material and crawl inside them to scrub them. It will take hours to clean up after a brew day. Maybe those hours will equal having brewed seven 5 gallon batches and cleaning your turkey frier or keggle pot that many times, but I'd rather clean for 30 minutes after each brew day (I double batch), than 3 hours of laying inside a barrel scrubbing.

BUT... if you are determined, offer the guy 800 or so and stand firm. If he cannot sell it for more, maybe you'll find yourself leaping into homebrewing.

I say if its what you want buy it, You sure cant build one like that for 600.00 if you had to piece it together. And as far as the electric elements go my rig is all electric and I have never scorched any wort, when its boiling its moving all the time and when in the mash I only use mine to bring to strike temp & if I need to I can still heat it because I have a stirrer.
My 2 cents

I know you said that you don't want to hear naysayers, so I'm not saying "nay"! But, keep in mind that by law you are allowed to brew up to 100 gallons per year per adult in your household, up to a total of 200 gallons per year. I'm married, so by law our household can produce a grand total of 200 gallons. If I had 12 adults in my home, I'd still be limited to 200 gallons per year. That's for homebrewers.

I understand you want to get into it in a bigger way, but then you need all the commercial licenses. You said permitting is cheap where you live- but you still have to go through all the sales tax stuff, the licensing, the health department, etc. I don't know how "cheap" you meant for permitting, but I'd guess in the neighborhood of $5000 or so per year.

So, if you've got a 50 gallon system, you could only legally brew to capacity twice a year. And you couldn't legally sell any of it, but you could give away up to one 6 pack per person per year. (That's the law here, it may vary a bit in your state).

Thank you all for your input and wise words. I have decided to offer him, significantly less than he is asking, by half or more, in which case if he bites, then I literally can't pass up the deal, and if not, well then maybe its for the best. I am thinking that a 10 gallon system would probably be the best at this point, via keg, and its about time I learn how to weld anyway, Again thanks for all your help,

Regards,

Ryan

Ryanmcgrim said:

Thank you all for your input and wise words. I have decided to offer him, significantly less than he is asking, by half or more, in which case if he bites, then I literally can't pass up the deal, and if not, well then maybe its for the best. I am thinking that a 10 gallon system would probably be the best at this point, via keg, and its about time I learn how to weld anyway, Again thanks for all your help,

Regards,

Ryan

Click to expand...

My main brew rig is a 10 gallon system and it works great I also have a 55 gallon system that I have had for about 6 months and I have yet to use. When you go that big there are even more problems to deal with.

Gan you deal with the cost of grain/hops/yeast for that much at one time? Can you control the fermenting of that much at one time? (that's my problem)
Can you bottle/keg that much at one time? To bottle that you're looking at an all day bottling party.

With a 5 gallon batch if you mess something up it's not that big of a deal but with 55 gallons that's huge.

Figure an average 5 gallon batch cost you $35 then that 55 gallon will cost you $385.00


As for what that all is worth, I have no idea, my 55 gallon kettle cost me $160 from a scrap yard.

The brewpub would most likely want you to package it in kegs.....could you afford that many ball locks?

If you're really dead set on getting a huge system, you should look on craigslist in the restaurant section. You can usually find huge steam kettles, etc. for cheap. If you've seen BrewPastor's rig, you'll know what I mean. I think John Beere bought a few too....maybe you should search for that thread.

New to this forum, but I am planning an upgrade to my system as well and doing a bunch of research. What might interest you is a short video with Sam Calagione of Dogfish Head Brewing Co. about how he got started on a 15 gal system. He says that by being effiecient he could brew 3 batches in a 5-6 hour day.

http://www.brew-magic.com/bm_samtest.html

hrm, maybe with a real simple and short mash and a max 60 minute boil you could overlap enough, but damn, without some serious automation you'll be screwing stuff up a lot trying to keep it all straight.

I have an all-manual setup, and I can overlap a bit by starting mash #2 part way through the boil of batch #1, but with chilling, aerating, etc., from beginning to end it's still 10 hours. I could maybe cut it down as I improve chilling, maybe some other things, but I can't see how to crank out 3 in 6 hours.