Autumn Seasonal Beer Joie De Vivre (Fake Imperial Pumpkin)

I made the following beer and was VERY happy with it. Chewy, malty, and spicy. I gave one to my BIL who was down for Christmas, and his first comment was "Pumkin Pie!". There is no pumpkin in it. The spices are very prominent. My plan is to make this again in the summer. I will cut the spices down 25%.



Joie De Vivre
Spice / Holiday Beer

Type: All Grain Date: 9/26/2009
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.80 gal
Boil Time: 90 min


Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.40 lb Rice Hulls - 50# (1.8 SRM) Adjunct 2.06 %
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Malteurop (1.7 SRM) Grain 41.24 %
4.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.5 SRM) Grain 20.62 %
3.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 15.46 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 10.31 %
1.00 lb Melanoiden Malt (28.0 SRM) Grain 5.15 %
1.00 lb Victory Malt (28.0 SRM) Grain 5.15 %
0.50 oz Tradition [5.00 %] (90 min) Hops 6.2 IBU
1.00 oz Tradition [5.00 %] (30 min) Hops 8.9 IBU
2.00 tsp Clove Spice (powder) (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
2.00 tsp Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
4.00 tsp Cinnamon Spice (powder) (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) [Starter 2000 ml] Yeast-Ale


Beer Profile
Measured Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.029 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.00 %
Bitterness: 15.0 IBU Calories: 423 cal/pint
Est Color: 16.0 SRM

Process
Mashed at 155. 1 hour. Boiled 90 minutes.

[edit] I made a second batch of this and realized that the spice measurements should have been teaspoons, not ounces. I had recorded ounces in my written recipe, but that just CAN'T be correct... so I'm assuming I made an error, and I'm changing everything to teaspoons. I've edited the recipe above to reflect this. Sorry everyone.

This beer just won GOLD. Best Florida Beer Competition, state's largest homebrew comp. AHA and BJCP sanctified. Yep, I'm proud.

CONGRATS! looks great.

Congrats! Looks like a nice beer, I'd love to make something similar sometime for the fall.

Curious... but what do you carbonate this to?

Really interested in this beer. Could we get a little more information regarding what kind of fermentation schedule you used?

Sorry. Just realized that you did list the primary fermentation. So you went 3 weeks and then packaged?

And do you still recommend cutting the spice by 25% even though this won a gold medal? Thanks.

I'm out of town right now, so I don't have all my notes. I'd guess I let this ferment about 3 wks in primary, then bottled. Yes, I would still cut the spices back, especially the cinnamon.

Make SURE you hit your OG on this one or the spices will be too much. If you decide to scale back the gravity, scale the spices too.

How long did you end up bottle conditioning for? I kind of want to do a half batch for thanksgiving. My uncle will go nuts over this.

Jdecarol said:

How long did you end up bottle conditioning for? I kind of want to do a half batch for thanksgiving. My uncle will go nuts over this.

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I made it in September 26. Bottled October 17 at 2.4 volumes (4.5oz dextrose). It won a medal in February.

I remember it was very good at Christmas.

Just ordered the ingredients for a half batch from AustinHomebrew.

Thinking about doing this soon and drinking it throughout the fall. I'll report back with how it went!

I recently made a batch and the gravity came in 10 points low (had a helper and the problem was somewhere there I think). Cinnamon is super strong and nearly ruined it.

So, if anyone brews this, don't add spices until after the boil. Measure your gravity and if you didn't hit it, cut back the spices (esp. the cinnamon). I ended up adding 8 oz. lactose (per 5g) and probably should have gone to a full lb. of it. You can dump the spices into the pot after the boil but before cooling and they will be sanitized.

passedpawn said:

I recently made a batch and the gravity came in 10 points low (had a helper and the problem was somewhere there I think). Cinnamon is super strong and nearly ruined it.

So, if anyone brews this, don't add spices until after the boil. Measure your gravity and if you didn't hit it, cut back the spices (esp. the cinnamon). I ended up adding 8 oz. lactose (per 5g) and probably should have gone to a full lb. of it. You can dump the spices into the pot after the boil but before cooling and they will be sanitized.

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Did you use your original amount or did you cut it by a quarter?

Jdecarol said:

Did you use your original amount or did you cut it by a quarter?

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Yes, I cut back the spices exactly 25%. However, instead of 1.090 OG (first batch), I had 1.069. Just a major f-up, both in the adjusted recipe and execution.

The FG of the original was 1.029 (that's very high, but I mashed at almost 158). That was good for this beer.

For the second beer, I mashed at 150. The FG was 1.015. This is where the problem was.

Moral of the story: make a big beer, mash high. You don't want to dry this beer out. The first one was EXCELLENT. Just a joy, really.

Took the first runnings and boiled the piss out of it for about 60 minutes and then added the rest of the runnings to it. Overshot my boil off and ended up just shy of 3 gallons of wort.

I don't know if it's the spices in suspension or what causing me to get a bad hydro reading or what but there is no way I hit 1.110 for gravity with 9.5lbs of grain even though it is a 3 gallon batch. I also managed to break my thermo during the cooling so I hopefully didn't transfer to the carboy too warm. Pictures going up in picture forum.

4.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 42.11 %
2.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 21.05 %
1.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 15.79 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 10.53 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %
0.50 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %
0.25 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.40 %] (90 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.40 %] (30 min) Hops 8.7 IBU
0.75 oz Clove Spice powder (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.50 oz Cinnamon Powder (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) Yeast-Ale

This one is on the list to brew, I think I will add some fresh roasted Pepitas to the mash as well, just for a bit more toasty flavor, and so I can say: Yes, there is pumpkin in it.

Transferred to a secondary today for some aging. I am in utter disbelief of how much I lost to trub and yeast. Out of a just shy of 3 gallons of beer I lost almost a full gallon to trub. In order to keep my head space limited I topped off with about 3/4 of a gallon of 1.040. Alcohol is looking to be closer to 10%. Spices where way over powering this early but I can see this being one awesome sipper.

I've never made this one but I'm suggesting at our Home Brew Club meeting tonight that we brew this for our holiday party.

If we brew this on September 11th, will it be "ready" by mid december? I mean I know it will be drinkable but I was just wondering how much better this gets with age.

Brewing this tomorrow. Per Beersmith your starting boil volume is way off. I'm gonna roll with it and see what happens on a 6 gallon batch. Also going to drastically cut the spices, it looks way too overpowering.

Brewed this with the spices cut 25%. Added cinnamon at 10'. Beer turned into slime. Has anyone else experienced this? Ive been reading that boiling ground cinnamon causes a gelling effect.

I brewed it and cut the spices 75%, still seemed fine. The beer did change a little but I am hoping that it clears up during fermentation.

Damaso said:

Brewed this with the spices cut 25%. Added cinnamon at 10'. Beer turned into slime. Has anyone else experienced this? Ive been reading that boiling ground cinnamon causes a gelling effect.

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I am going to order the ingredients for this soon. Anyone else have this problem (with the gelatin goo)? I am just going to add the spices at the end of the boil after I measure the OG, I don't want to overspice this thing.

I've made twice. No spice goo. I add spices to a hanging hop bag, but I doubt that keeps them out of the wort.

I was thinking about subbing Maris otter in for the pilsner. How do you think it would work out?

kkocher13 said:

I was thinking about subbing Maris otter in for the pilsner. How do you think it would work out?

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Great. I probably would have done that but I didn't have MO at the time.

This sounds awesome!

jbrookeiv said:

This sounds awesome!

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The sound was only ok. The taste was fantastic.

Brewed this 3 months ago and I think it will be my first dumper. It is like syrup and undrinkable. I read another post about boiling cinnamon being the problem, any ideas? I even cut the spices by 75% still way too much in there. I'm gonna keep a few to try down the road but I don't have much hope. What could I have done?

CrAzYmOuSe said:

Brewed this 3 months ago and I think it will be my first dumper. It is like syrup and undrinkable. I read another post about boiling cinnamon being the problem, any ideas? I even cut the spices by 75% still way too much in there. I'm gonna keep a few to try down the road but I don't have much hope. What could I have done?

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I popped one into the fridge (brewed months ago) and it turned into opaque syrupy jelly. I took it out of the fridge and held it up to the light and I could of sworn it was my stout, I couldn't even see light through the neck. When it warmed up to room temp it went back to liquid form, but who wants warm beer?

Just finished brewing this beer.

Has a great taste going into the carboy, very much like pumpkin pie.

Forgot to mention that I added 36 ounces (I made a 2.5 gallon batch) of canned pumpkin to the mash. The air smelled of pumpkin pie during the brew session. I eagerly await the day I can drink this.

I used pre-ground cinnamon, fresh grate nutmeg, and fresh ground clove and after a week in the carboy all I seem to taste is clove. SWMBO thinks Im nuts and feels that it is balanced but all I seem to get is overwhelming clove.

Some people hate cloves. I.e., I used to love german hefe's, now I can't touch them. Ech.

Spices are a bit of a wild card. I think they can differ greatly due to age, form, origin, etc.

FWIW, I don't think I'll use cinnamon anymore. Bugs me in these beers.

passedpawn said:

Some people hate cloves. I.e., I used to love german hefe's, now I can't touch them. Ech.

Spices are a bit of a wild card. I think they can differ greatly due to age, form, origin, etc.

FWIW, I don't think I'll use cinnamon anymore. Bugs me in these beers.

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It's not a bad thing, I just want to have a balanced beer that tastes like pumpkin pie.

If it does not seem to mellow I think a spice tea is in order.

Added two tsp of McCormack's Pumpkin Pie spice to a spice bag and steeped that in hot water for 15 minutes. I strained the 'tea' through cheese cloth so that most of the lumps were removed, added my priming sugar and will be adding this to the bottling bucket.

The beer tastes great right now, just the spicing left something to be desired. I wanted a really strong spice presence but YMMV.

Has anybody made this in the last 4 years? Sorry to revive an old thread, but I'm always looking for a different Pumpkin beer besides the normal "Pale" with Pumpkin and spices, this would fit the bill, likely not till next year now but I like ot start planing my brew schedule for the next year in the fall.

Is the OP the correct recipe or should the spices still be cut by 25%?

Yea, I'd cut the spices down by 25%. I'd reduce the cinnamon to 1 tsp (from 4). I'm just sick of cinnamon in holiday beers and 4 tsp was a lot. Your taste might be different than mine though.

BTW, when I posted this recipe, I had put ounces instead of teaspoons for the spices. Some people made it and disaster ensued. I did fix that though.

I can tell you that this beer was super good.

How quickly would you say this could be ready, might try for this year, but I've got 3 fermenting right now and two planned to go on yeast cakes as soon as two of those three finish. I try to finish up my brewing by October since it starts to get cold, kids have sports, and football takes Sunday's out of the picture for brew days

Have you tried anything other than Scottish Ale yeast? I have some 1450(Denny's Favorite) all set to go in a mason jar or I could harvest some 1728(Sottish Ale) from some bottles of an Oatmeal Stout that I have. LHBS doesn't stock many Wyeast strains, they can get them but i can be a week or two if I go through them so I try to use what I already have in the fridge.

I'd say that the beer would be ready for bottling 3 week after brewing, and 3 weeks after bottling it would win the admiration of your comrades.