COLD CRASH vs LAGERING

Some people talk about cold crashing........for a month.

Isn't that lagering?

In addition to clarifying, does crashing diminish IBU's or flavor?

Does lagering diminish IBU's?

You seldom see anyone lager an IPA, I assume it reduces IBU's

Lagering is a conditioning process. Cold crashing is a clarification process.
Nope
Nope
IPAs are ales and most people do not lager ales.

david_42 said:

Lagering is a conditioning process. Cold crashing is a clarification process.
Nope
Nope
IPAs are ales and most people do not lager ales.

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I understand most people don't lager ales, but at 3 or 4 weeks, crashing for clarification becomes lagering, no matter what you call it.

DOES LAGERING REDUCE IBU's?

Aging a hoppy beer will make it less hoppy.

No, it doesn't "become lagering", just because it may be at similar temps.

Not sure about the reduction in IBU's but I would GUESS that cold temps do not change the IBU count.

EDIT: I'm staying out of whether this is lagering or not.

Lagering should not diminish IBU's. You might have some flavor and aroma components drop out. Even in aged beer, bitterness doesn't diminish very rapidly, hop flavor and aroma do.

cheezydemon3 said:

I understand most people don't lager ales, but at 3 or 4 weeks, crashing for clarification becomes lagering, no matter what you call it.

DOES LAGERING REDUCE IBU's?

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Here's a tip for next time.

When someone answers your question, It's not a good idea to argue with them and then ask the same question again IN ALL CAPS.

annasdadhockey said:

Here's a tip for next time.

When someone answers your question, It's not a good idea to argue with them and then ask the same question again IN ALL CAPS.

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Gee thanks!!

No disrespect to David, thanks for the answer, but The truth is, my question wasn't completely answered. I EMPHASIZED the part that wasn't answered and after that I got ANSWERS.

Thanks.

Edcculus said:

EDIT: I'm staying out of whether this is lagering or not.

Lagering should not diminish IBU's. You might have some flavor and aroma components drop out. Even in aged beer, bitterness doesn't diminish very rapidly, hop flavor and aroma do.

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Thank YOU!! That is what I needed to Know.

Yeah, I am not a stickler for the language, if I lager for 3 weeks it isn't lagering? Whatever.

Lager comes from the German word meaning to store. When making a lager, the lagering period is required to reduce off flavors. It is an intergral part of the process in making this style of beer.

Cold crashing an ale is done to help clarify an ale. It is performed mainly for aesthetics, and is not absolutely required. As such, the time required depends partly on the schedule of the homebrewer. Generally, 24 hours is sufficient, but I may move an ale to my fridge to cold crash it, then not get to bottling it for a few weeks. I guess you *could* say that I was in effect lagering (or storing) the beer at this point.. but most of us wouldn't say that, as my intent is primarily clarification, not removal of off flavors.

So while the physical temperature of the beer may be the same in bath cases, the intent of the two processes is different.

Makes good sense BIO.

You say Lager, he says cold crash, or clarifying. To each their own.


So............................

COLD DOES NOT REDUCE IBU's, EVEN IF It BECOMES LAGERED(which evidently means "cold for a long time").

Right? That's the concensus?

No more than storing the beer warm for the same period of time, as far as I can tell.

Cold Crashing is not lagering...just my opinion

Cold crashing you are usually using ale yeast.
Lagering you are using lager yeast.

annasdadhockey said:

Here's a tip for next time.

When someone answers your question, It's not a good idea to argue with them and then ask the same question again IN ALL CAPS.

Click to expand...

akakaka, I loled

cheezydemon3 said:

COLD DOES NOT REDUCE IBU's, EVEN IF It BECOMES LAGERED(which evidently means "cold for a long time").

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You would have to store something for many months to reduce bitterness, though you could also just leave it hanging out in a closet for that same amount of time and the same bitterness would be reduced out of the beer as if in a fridge.

Hop flavor is removed much more quickly. I am under the impression that it takes longer to leave under cold temps than hot though.

Lager just means storage, or a beer that has been stored. You can make an argument for whatever you want (but you shouldnt). Lagers are lagered, ales are not. You can taste the difference between the two types of beer, so if you are in doubt of whether to say cold crash or lager, you could always just stick some beer in your mouth.

I am lagering some bacon in the fridge right now...I mean it's been in there for 3 weeks, it's cold....so it must be lager now!


Lager not only means "to store", it also means a TYPE of beer. If you STORE your ALE in the cold for 3 weeks it doesn't become LAGER.

BrianTheBrewer said:

Cold Crashing is not lagering...just my opinion

Cold crashing you are usually using ale yeast.
Lagering you are using lager yeast.

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+1 I leave kegs in the keezer for a month or more sometimes before tapping its conditioning but not lagering. And please when you want to emphasize just use bold or color. Caps dont emphasize they are yelling and can be mistaken for being argumentative . thanks.

Isn't it the yeast that makes the difference? Lager yeasts need time to "marinate" (technical term, i swear), ales don't.

david_42 said:

Lagering is a conditioning process. Cold crashing is

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Very concise answer, I don't understand what else needed to be said. Cold crashing takes 2 days tops, and is done with ales. Lagering is usually a minimum of 3 weeks to many months, and is obviously done with lagers.

DurangoHomeBrewMafia said:

I am lagering some bacon in the fridge right now...I mean it's been in there for 3 weeks, it's cold....so it must be lager now!

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Awesome!!

my take on this subject is:
extended Lagering is to bottom cropping yeast as Cold Conditioning is to top cropping yeast. Both are to clairify and stabilize the brew before carbonating/bottling.

"Cold Crashing" is very rapidly dropping the temperatures of the wort. Homebrewers don't have the ability to really cold crash anything of volume rapidly.

The term "cold crashing" as far as I know comes from commercial lager brewers taking hot wort from the boiling kettles and shooting it down refrigerated pipelines or pans and dropping the temps out very rapidly to get good separation of the cold break materials. They would have the wort in a slurry like state 1-2C, then would get the wort off of the break materials prior to fermentation.

DeClerk if I'm not mistaken, had experimented and found if you took the wort off the break material prior to fermentation, your final clarity would be much brighter, and you had less chance of off flavors being produced during fermentation while brewing such a pale style lager.

Anyway.. Somewhere along the way(mid 90s), Homebrewers with the use of different finings decided to use the term as "cold crashing" to relate to dropping the heavier globs of fatty proteins and other junk that clings to the finings out of the solution. It was called cold conditioning for ales or extended lagering for lagers before that period that I can remember.

cheezydemon3 said:

COLD DOES NOT REDUCE IBU's, EVEN IF It BECOMES LAGERED(which evidently means "cold for a long time").

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THAT IS CORRECT.

yooper yelled at me......

Thanks Yoop. Good to know.



I certainly didn't mean to start a "lager/cold storage" debate, but WTF? (yes I'm yelling)

My point is this........

ALE YEAST at 35F = inactive, no fermentation or "conditioning" occurs. Particles fall ot of suspension.

Lager Yeast at 35F = the same damn thing.

So far as I know, Bacon's particles can't fall out of suspension.

I could buy the time thing,ie; 3 weeks + is lagering, but 2 or 3 on this thread claim to "cold crash" (yes the dramatic name sticks and is a little shorter than saying you put your fermenter in the fridge) their ALE's for a month.

SORRY!!! You LAGERED your ale.

lagering some kool aid next week!

Actually, to be more specific, lager yeast DOES work at those cooler temperatures, albeit more slowly. There is still conditioning going on. Beer conditions more slowly at cold temperatures, that's why the cold lagering is so long.

Precursers, like those for DMS, are gradually eaten by the yeast even at the cold lagering temperatures. Acetaldehyde and diacetyl will be metabolized at lagering temperatures; but again, very slowly.

That's the main difference- you can AGE ales at cold temperatures, but you LAGER lagers which is a conditioning state.

Don't know if aging a hoppy ale changes the physical IBU count but if anything your beer is going to taste more bitter as the hop aroma fades.

YooperBrew said:

Actually, to be more specific, lager yeast DOES work at those cooler temperatures, albeit more slowly. There is still conditioning going on. Beer conditions more slowly at cold temperatures, that's why the cold lagering is so long.

Precursers, like those for DMS, are gradually eaten by the yeast even at the cold lagering temperatures. Acetaldehyde and diacetyl will be metabolized at lagering temperatures; but again, very slowly.

That's the main difference- you can AGE ales at cold temperatures, but you LAGER lagers which is a conditioning state.

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samc said:

Don't know if aging a hoppy ale changes the physical IBU count but if anything your beer is going to taste more bitter as the hop aroma fades.

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Maybe the 2 most coherent posts on this thread yet.

Now excuse me while I go lager my dead uncle..............
YES I USED THE RIGHT KIND OF YEAST DAMMIT!!!

Actually I am going to cold crash him, then lager him.

Yoop got it right. Lager yeast will continue to perform meaningful activity during lagering, whereas an ale yeast will go dormant and drop out of solution (i.e., cold crash). Some yeasts fit loosely into both categories. For example, a Kölsch yeast may be fermented at ale temps then brought to a lager state for aging and "cleaning up" the beer.

Lagering is a verb

Lager is a noun

The use of one does not necessarily produce the other.

No matter which beer you store at cold temperatures, you are lagering it. The lagering phase is in place to drop things out of solution, not to let yeast "clean things up." Let the yeast finish at fermentation temps. You lager to get them and other heavier materials (polyphenols) to fall out of suspension. This is why lagers are cleaner (the "junk" has fallen out of solution).

Does lager yeast work at these colder temps? Absolutely! But not if they're done already. Again, let the yeast finish at ferm temps.

From How-to-Brew, our oft quoted internet companion...

Lager comes from the German word "lagern" which means to store. A lager beer is in cold storage while it ages in the conditioning phase. Temperature influences lagers in two ways. During primary fermentation, the cooler temperature (45-55 °F) prevents the formation of fruity esters by the yeast. In addition to producing fewer byproducts during the primary phase, the yeast uses the long conditioning phase to finish off residual sugars and metabolize other compounds that may give rise to off-flavors and aromas.

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Lagers are cleaner because of the yeast activity and the process of yeast activity during lagering.

Again this is all semantics, but if you told a professional brewer you were lagering your IPA, first he/she would ask why would brewed an IPA as a lager. Then you would explain it was an ale but you are lagering it. Then he/she would say, 'Oh, you cold crashed and are cold conditioning?'

tomato, tamoto, but language does hold power.

Yes Lager in German does mean "to store" the intent was to cold store and originally the people who made beer had no knowledge or understanding of yeast. So over time the meaning of Lager has changed from cold storage to a specific yeast, process and type of beer. The meaning of words change over time just as Merry once meant Mighty hence Robin Hoods Merry men were not happy but mighty fighting men.

So have a Merry Christmas in both the old and current meanings!

Not to muddy the waters, but lager yeasts technically do produce a cleaner beer, all else being equal. They convert complex sugars that ale yeasts do not. In fact, this is the strictest definition of a lager yeast.

This concludes our broadcast day. Queue the national anthem.

I have never brewed a lager. I would like to soon as the cold weather is here. Sam Adams makes a black lager that is very good. I may try to clone that one.

I will accept it either way.

The only thing a commercial brewer would laugh at (IMHO) is when you claim to have "crash cooled" anything.

In that case, I crash cooled my motherphucking BACON.

Well a commercial brewer also has thousands of dollars worth of equipment that they use.

cheezydemon3 said:

The only thing a commercial brewer would laugh at (IMHO) is when you claim to have "crash cooled" anything.

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That's interesting... because I first learned about crash cooling because one of the brewers from Three Floyds told me they did it for all their ales... maybe he didn't know what he was talking about.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

That's interesting... because I first learned about crash cooling because one of the brewers from Three Floyds told me they did it for all their ales... maybe he didn't know what he was talking about.

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Hahahahahahahaha!!!

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

That's interesting... because I first learned about crash cooling because one of the brewers from Three Floyds told me they did it for all their ales... maybe he didn't know what he was talking about.

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NO NO NO. pros do crash cool with expensive equipment, homebrewers typically do not have that equipment. Capiche?

PLacing a fermenter in your fridge is NOT cold crashing.

cheezydemon3 said:

NO NO NO. pros do crash cool with expensive equipment, homebrewers typically do not have that equipment. Capiche?

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Dont have the equipment???!!! Its called a small fridge with a temp on it.

cheezydemon3 said:

PLacing a fermenter in your fridge is NOT cold crashing.

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What is that called then?