Can someone explain what went wrong ( malted corn)

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

OHIOSTEVE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
3,546
Reaction score
80
Location
SIDNEY
I soaked the shelled corn in water,,, got sprouts about an inch long.. put it in a pillow case in teh dryer and got all of the sprouts off....ran it through a grinder ( major pain in the rear) Mashed it at 150 degrees tonight for 90 minutes.. 5 gallons had an adjusted hydro reading of 1.019...SHOULD have been about 1.050.....I thought I did every thing right. The only change in my normal mashing I just did a full volume mash...no sparge.
 
I soaked the shelled corn in water,,, got sprouts about an inch long.. put it in a pillow case in teh dryer and got all of the sprouts off....ran it through a grinder ( major pain in the rear) Mashed it at 150 degrees tonight for 90 minutes.. 5 gallons had an adjusted hydro reading of 1.019...SHOULD have been about 1.050.....I thought I did every thing right. The only change in my normal mashing I just did a full volume mash...no sparge.

You didn't use any 6-row barley with it, just corn?
 
I thought the reason we had to process the corn either by gel rolling it (flaked) or doing a cereal mash, is because malting it didn't work like, or at least as well as malting barley does.
That may well be true.. I used JUST corn, BUT I though when properly malted ( which I THOUGHT I did) it had a high enough power to convert on its own.. I guess maybe I was wrong. I also thought malting it removed the necessity of a cereal mash...again I was evidently wrong....back to the drawing board
 
malting does work with corn, it's how they make chicha, and it's called jora after malting.
 
well I searched for a corn whiskey recipe to see where I went wrong because the process would be the same up to a point. They do exactly as I did EXCEPT they pour BOILING water over the corn after it has been malted and crushed. They let it set until it cools naturally, so they are malting it AND doing a cereal mash basically... Oh well try and try again.
 
But then why don't we buy malted corn along with all the other grains? Why do we still have to further break it down with grain in a cereal mash or use it processed in some other way? I don't think malting it alone is good enough. I'm thinking even though you malt it, you still need something with distatic power to fully convert it.
 
well I searched for a corn whiskey recipe to see where I went wrong because the process would be the same up to a point. They do exactly as I did EXCEPT they pour BOILING water over the corn after it has been malted and crushed. They let it set until it cools naturally, so they are malting it AND doing a cereal mash basically... Oh well try and try again.

So you WERE missing a further step to it. Cool!!!
 
But then why don't we buy malted corn along with all the other grains? Why do we still have to further break it down with grain in a cereal mash or use it processed in some other way? I don't think malting it alone is good enough. I'm thinking even though you malt it, you still need something with distatic power to fully convert it.

Even distilleries use other grains in their corn mash. I do not know the numbers, but I just always thought it was because it was due to the lower diastatic power of corn.
 
beer....trying to make an all corn beer and spent a great deal of time only to fail.. I will however succeed...somehow. I do not want to add sugar or 2 row but I may have to. Although it seems what I missed was the cereal mash after malting.
 
chicha does not use any other grain in the mash and it is a beer but it is only 1-3% ABV so obviously there are conversion problems there.
 
eastoak said:
chicha does not use any other grain in the mash and it is a beer but it is only 1-3% ABV so obviously there are conversion problems there.

Chicha is made by actually chewing/masticating the corn and then fermenting it. It's my understanding that the saliva provides what's necessary to convert

Sam from Dog Fish did an episode on this when his show was on TV, forgot what it was called....
 
Chicha is made by actually chewing/masticating the corn and then fermenting it. It's my understanding that the saliva provides what's necessary to convert

Sam from Dog Fish did an episode on this when his show was on TV, forgot what it was called....

that is a type of chicha and the mouth processed corn is called muko (after it's processed), it's not sprouted but dried, ground and chewed. this is not as common anymore being so laborious.
 
Chicha is made by actually chewing/masticating the corn and then fermenting it. It's my understanding that the saliva provides what's necessary to convert

Sam from Dog Fish did an episode on this when his show was on TV, forgot what it was called....

Saliva contains α-amylase, just like malted barley does. Chew on a few grains or some potato and do an iodine test every couple of minutes, you'll see that the starch is being converted. Or if you keep on chewing, you'll actually taste the sweetness after a while.
 
I believe Shiners use at least 25% malted barley in their grain bill to get enough DP to convert the corn.

Edit:

It's my understanding you need an average diastatic power of 70 for overall conversion of mash.


Diastatic Power as reported by
Cargill Malt Specialty Group:
Grain Type
Diastatic Power in Degrees Lintner​
2-Row Pale Malt
110​
6-Row Pale Malt
150​
Highly modified Pilsner Malt
125​
Malted Wheat
120​
Vienna Malt
100​
Munich Malt
70​
Crystal Malt
0​
Unmalted Wheat
0​
Chocolate malt, roast barley
0​
Unmalted Adjunct grains (rice, corn)
0​
 
it in a pillow case in teh dryer and got all of the sprouts off....

If the overall temperature of the grain went above the maximum temperature for the enzyme, the enzymes will have been deactivated.

A quick google shows that folks air-dry the corn once it has sprouted, usually using a fan.

You may want to try it on a smaller scale, say 4 or 8oz and see how it goes.

MC
 
I called Jack Daniels to see exactly how they malted their corn. Evidently they felt I wasn't far enough south at this time. I did get directions.
 
krackin, JD uses barley too in there mash. Saw ut on one of there many history channel specails.

I would guess you would either need A enzyme or atleast 10-20% barley to get conversion
 
If the overall temperature of the grain went above the maximum temperature for the enzyme, the enzymes will have been deactivated.

A quick google shows that folks air-dry the corn once it has sprouted, usually using a fan.

You may want to try it on a smaller scale, say 4 or 8oz and see how it goes.

MC
+1

Pretty much. Didn't sound allthat scenic.
Now that there is funny I don't care who you are
:)
 
How much corn did you actually use? I am fermenting up a 5gallon batch right now, and I got OG of 1.048 with 14lbs. And only about 5 of that was malted, the rest cornmeal and sugar.
When the corn sprouts are about an inch long, there should not be any starch left in the kernel. It will have all been converted to simple sugars for the baby plant to consume while its breaking the surface of the ground in search of the sun. The enzymes should still be there though, that's why you can use cornmeal. They will break up the starch in your boil, provided its not too hot to kill them off. Be forewarned, the meal makes a big mess to clean up afterwords.
 
FYI, when drying your newly malted corn, do not let the temperature go above 130. Anything higher will start killing off the enzymes. If you have the time, let it air dry in a sunny area. Also, when when heating on the stove, keep your temp between 140&150. The enzymes will die off at higher temps, and try to keep your boil around 45 minutes max. Again, the enzymes start dying off at boils longer than that. Hope this helps a bit. It's all the special info I've been able to come up with in my trials
 
thanks for the info.....brewing has been on hold.. I have a few gallons of different things setting in the ferment room that have ben done for months and just need kegged...havent even done that yet.
 
in case no one has recommended this yet corn malt is rather delicate, if you want to ensure proper conversion do not dry it before the cereal mash, dryed corn malt will have a dp of 40 at best and typically much lower due to excessive temperatures during drying, but wet it can have a dp in the 200 range wet malt is always more potent
 
Just in case anybody stumbles across this needing an answer. Corn can convert itself easily and when using 100% malted corn you can also convert an equal amount unmalted corn (1lb. Malted 1lb. unmalted). I’m thinking when drying and mashing you’ve heated it way too high denature gets the enzymes so you have only the sugars converted prior to this and no power to convert anything else. You have to keep the temp under 150 Fahrenheit once the grain has sprouted. You don’t need any other grains except corn, like I said before it can convert itself without issue. People have made moonshine for years with only corn around the area I’m from. If you have any doubts you can find science to back this.
 
@Seth999 please explain....have you personally done this? the geling temp of corn is above the denaturing temp of amylases.....the only way i can imagine doing a 100% corn brew would be to do a cereal mash, then cool to strike temp, for an additional addition of corn malt?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top