Oak Barrels: Why are they retired?

I've been looking into 20L/40L Oak Wine/Whiskey barrels off and on now for awhile and have concluded that shipping appears to be the deal breaker. There are a few AZ Wineries I want to look into though.

It never really occurred to me until now:
Why are these barrels retired?

What quality do they lose that wine/spirit makers deem them no longer suitable? I understand that the barrel character changes, but why can't the barrel be re-toasted? Also it seems that the character is plenty strong for beer. I can't imagine that it'd be so different.

Purely speculation: I think it has to do with repeatability. If I were making the same beer, wine, whiskey, etc time and time again, I would want barrels with the same character. Once the barrel is used a number of times (perhaps even once!), its character will change, and so will the product. Just because the barrel can still impart some woody/toasty notes, it doesn't mean that those flavors will be of the same strength and character as before.

When we picked up the barrel for the Flander's Red project, the guy told us that as the barrel gets older, it takes longer and longer to impart the oak flavor/aroma into the wine. Of course, this in turn delays their revenue so it's cheaper to buy fresh barrels.

Just for point of reference, they quoted $75 but dropped it down to $50 when we got there. We handed him 2 six packs of homebrew and he in turn gave us 4 bottles of Port and one bottle of the Cabernet that came out of the barrel we bought. We ended up with $100 worth of wine and a barrel for $50 and two sixers of homebrew. Not bad at all.

Don't know about where you want to buy your barrel, but IIRC there is some rule with Tenn Whiskey/Bourbon that specifically says they can use the barrel only once. (among other things that are specific to Tenn Whiskey/Bourbon) IIRC this is also why I've heard that they then ship used barrels over to the UK to be used in whiskey making.

Consistency and/or legal considerations. Some times a winery will re-scorch the inside of a barrel, a tricky operation, and continue using it. For use with beer, the characteristics imparted by the wine/whiskey are desirable.

Can't speak to the spirit side, but on the wine side its because of loss of oak character. Re-toasting will not increase the oak flavor, but recooping will. I'm not 100% on the process, but you essentially have to take the barrel apart, shave it down, and then re-toast. Some wineries do this, most just buy new barrels.

As far as oak character in a barrel being strong enough for beer, thus strong enough for wine....I don't think thats the case. I don't think any breweries are using mostly new oak barrels for their beer, especially without blending. However, many winderies use 50%+ new oak for their wines on a regular basis.
edit> ...And the other 50% is one time use barrels, some/many never use a barrel more than twice.

I work for a rather large (5m cases a year) wine company and barrels are our bread-and-butter. In terms of wine barrels - here's the quick and dirty:

Most oak is used for three years. The barrels are toasted to various specifications when new because it caramelizes the sugars in the wood and helps impart more tannin and oak flavor to the wine. After about 3 years, most of the tannin has been leeched out of the wood and the barrel is "retired". The first year is probably the harshest and extended time in the barrel can make the wine astringent and scratchy on the throat, but the increased tannin content in the resulting wine makes it more age-worthy. The second and third years, depending on how much they were used previously, are the sweet spots for many winemakers. Some wineries stretch the barrel use for 5 years or so but at that age its more of a storage vessel. After retirement, many of the barrels are given away or otherwise disposed of (turned into cheese trays or some other random thing sold in Williams-Sonoma for 9x what the whole used barrel is worth, etc.). Re coopering them is occasionally done, but often doesn’t make financial sense. Basically the barrel is taken completely apart and the interior is planed back to raw wood and re-charred. A re-coopered barrel is never the same quality, since the wine draws from pretty deep in the wood and even re-planeing it can't get to completely virgin oak.

As for brewing, you would really want to stay away from a young barrel since the tannin it imparts, while desirable in wine, clashes with beer, even barleywine.

If you're really interested in barrel aging some stuff and have some time, head up to nor cal wine country with a truck. Used barrels fall like rain around here. They're almost a nuisance. I just gave away the three I had in my back yard.

Anything specific you're wondering about?

Gordie said:

If you're really interested in barrel aging some stuff and have some time, head up to nor cal wine country with a truck. Used barrels fall like rain around here. They're almost a nuisance. I just gave away the three I had in my back yard.

Click to expand...

If only I wasn't thousands of miles away

Thanks Gordie.
That seems to have covered it.

I just read this (http://drinkcraftbeer.com/interviews/breweries/interview_with_ron_jeffries_of_jolly_pumpkin.html) article earlier today. Cpt. ron Spooky (of Jolly Pumpkin) talks about his use of used wood (Eeeeeew! :cross: ) Not sure if you can get the pumpkins out your way but his stuff is amazing and definitely worth seeking out.