Recipe Help: Belgian Golden Strong Ale

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ColoradoXJ13

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So I live near Avery brewery and they took their Belgian golden strong ale and aged it in Ferrari Carano chardonnay barrels...probably one of the most fantastic beers I have ever had, mellowed the normal sweetness of Salvation and gave it an oaky, tannin, bitter quality that I associate with white wine....I loved it and want to make something like it.

So they list the ingredients as 2-row, cara 8 (CaraVienne), and cara 20 (CaraMunich).

Description: The success of HOG HEAVEN and THE REVEREND clearly demonstrates that beer drinkers are willing to embrace "BIGGER" beers. In the fall of 2001, we decided that a lighter BIG BEER would complement its darker colored predecessors. Salvation has luscious apricot and peach aromas delicately interwoven with spicy suggestions of nutmeg and cinnamon. This heavenly soft, champagne-like elixer is cellarable for 3 years.

Hops: Styrian Goldings

OG. 1.080 9% ABV (So about 1.013 FG), 25 IBUs

I was thinking about soaking some oak chips in white wine and adding them to the secondary, then blending in a little white wine before kegging/bottling to taste...but I need a base recipe and I have no idea...any help is much appreciated.
 
Good Lord. Well, not having the ability to taste this one makes it really hard to ballpark it. I mean they mention Apricot and some spice flavors, probably coming from the yeast.

I'll take a quick stab for 5 gallons:

13 lb 2 Row
.5 lb Cara 8
.25 Cara 20

60 1.25 oz Styrian (@6.0)
15 .75 oz Styrian (@6.0)
5 .75 oz Styrian (@6.0)

I did the flavor and aroma hops additions because it seems as though they like hops there?

But, I am guessing they probably add sugar, so you'd have to adjust the base malt to reflect this. I'd use clear invert @ about 1 lb. (They might use more)

As for the aging, not sure. Your idea with the chips is probably as good as any without a barrel.

Yeast, I'd go with the Achouffe strain maybe. It sounds like it, I think.

At any rate the above should roughly give 1.08, 8 lov, 25 IBU.
 
So I got some more info from Adam Avery this weekend at the first Bikes and BBQ event at the brewery and from listening to his interview on Basic Brewing Radio...

-he said they use a very small amount of specialty grains, less than 5% of malt bill

-They do use light belgian candy sugar, and then add turbinado to adjust the SG at the end of the boil (I think I will avoid this since I have more precision in a 5.5 gallon batch

-yeast is Wyeat 3787, Trappist high gravity, start fermentation at ~66*F for two days and then let it come up to 75-80*F until it finishes

-hops are all styrian golding, about 23-25IBU, and he said 'we hop the crap out of it at the end to add lots of flavor and aroma without adding a lot of bitterness, over a pound per barrel of late additions'.

-mash is at 150-152, single infusion

So here is what I am thinking

14# 2-row
0.25# CaraVienne
0.25# Cara Munich
1.5# Belgian clear candi sugar

All styrian goldings pellets
1.25oz @60
and ~2.5-3oz added continuously over the last 10-15 minutes of the boil

This should give me an OG of abot 1.083, 30 or so IBUs depending on aa%, and 10*L

I asked adam about how to do the oaking, and he thought my idea of soaking lightly toasted french oak cubes in chardonnay for about a month, then dumping the cubes in a secondary with the beer might work. I will test it after a few days to see if the flavor is right, and adjust accordingly. He said it really shouldn't take more than a few days of oaking since it is pretty high ABV and will pick up the oak and wine flavors quickly.

Interestingly, another employee told me they have to dump almost 25% of the beer that they age in barrels because it comes out tasting bad due to conamination...wow.
 
I would say don't bother using Belgian Candi Sugar and just go with straight table sugar. I made a Belgian Tripel that was a Westmalle clone using 2 lbs of table sugar a few months ago, and it turned out great. From what I've read, there is little or no difference between candi sugar and table sugar in the way of finished flavor.
 
Here's the recipe in case you're interested:

Tripel
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 5/9/2007
Style: Belgian Tripel Brewer: Mike Young
Batch Size: 5.50 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 7.00 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 % Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Actual Efficiency: 77.3 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 43.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.0 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (60 min) Hops 15.7 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 13.1 IBU
0.50 oz Tettnang [3.70%] (15 min) Hops 2.7 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [3.60%] (15 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
2.50 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 20.0 %
1 Pkgs Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast Labs #3787) Yeast-Wheat

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.074 SG (1.075-1.085 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.072 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.016 SG (1.010-1.016 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.004 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM (4.5-6.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 34.1 IBU (25.0-38.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 2.5 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 7.6 % (7.5-9.0 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 8.9 %
Actual Calories: 319 cal/pint


Mash at 148 for 60 minutes
 
damntheman said:
Here's the recipe in case you're interested:

Tripel
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 5/9/2007
Style: Belgian Tripel Brewer: Mike Young
Batch Size: 5.50 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 7.00 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 % Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Actual Efficiency: 77.3 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 43.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.0 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (60 min) Hops 15.7 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 13.1 IBU
0.50 oz Tettnang [3.70%] (15 min) Hops 2.7 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [3.60%] (15 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
2.50 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 20.0 %
1 Pkgs Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast Labs #3787) Yeast-Wheat

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.074 SG (1.075-1.085 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.072 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.016 SG (1.010-1.016 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.004 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM (4.5-6.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 34.1 IBU (25.0-38.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 2.5 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 7.6 % (7.5-9.0 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 8.9 %
Actual Calories: 319 cal/pint


Mash at 148 for 60 minutes
Click to expand...

Very similar to the one I made recently:

Ingredients:
10 lbs Belgian Pils
2 lbs Candi Sugar Clear
1 oz Styrian Goldings (3.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz Czech Saaz (2.50%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Czech Saaz (2.5%) - added during boil, boiled 45 min
.5 oz Czech Saaz (2.5%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
.5 oz Czech Saaz (2.5%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
.5 oz Czech Saaz (2.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
0.0 ea White Labs WLP570 Belgian Golden Ale
.5 tsp Irish Moss - added during boil, boiled 15 min

I made my own candi sugar for the heck of it. It turned out fantastic.
 
ColoradoXJ13 said:
So I got some more info from Adam Avery this weekend at the first Bikes and BBQ event at the brewery and from listening to his interview on Basic Brewing Radio...

-he said they use a very small amount of specialty grains, less than 5% of malt bill

-They do use light belgian candy sugar, and then add turbinado to adjust the SG at the end of the boil (I think I will avoid this since I have more precision in a 5.5 gallon batch

-yeast is Wyeat 3787, Trappist high gravity, start fermentation at ~66*F for two days and then let it come up to 75-80*F until it finishes

-hops are all styrian golding, about 23-25IBU, and he said 'we hop the crap out of it at the end to add lots of flavor and aroma without adding a lot of bitterness, over a pound per barrel of late additions'.

-mash is at 150-152, single infusion

So here is what I am thinking

14# 2-row
0.25# CaraVienne
0.25# Cara Munich
1.5# Belgian clear candi sugar

All styrian goldings pellets
1.25oz @60
and ~2.5-3oz added continuously over the last 10-15 minutes of the boil

This should give me an OG of abot 1.083, 30 or so IBUs depending on aa%, and 10*L

I asked adam about how to do the oaking, and he thought my idea of soaking lightly toasted french oak cubes in chardonnay for about a month, then dumping the cubes in a secondary with the beer might work. I will test it after a few days to see if the flavor is right, and adjust accordingly. He said it really shouldn't take more than a few days of oaking since it is pretty high ABV and will pick up the oak and wine flavors quickly.

Interestingly, another employee told me they have to dump almost 25% of the beer that they age in barrels because it comes out tasting bad due to conamination...wow.
Click to expand...

Good deal. Yeast strain got me :D. Westmalle it is! :). This'll turn out fabby! Just watch you don't push the bitterness too high in the end of the boil. Personally, I'd just toss them in a few minutes prior to flame out. Two reasons for this....1) it is tedious to add stuff and 2) it'll make it more repeatable. Let us know how it goes!
 
The golden I have made (which has gotten raves from friends) uses Styrian Goldings and some Saaz. I use Belgian candi sugar along with some corn sugar. Some aromatic malt and coriander help it out as well.

One thing I read about the Trappist yeast is that it loves a stepped feeding schedule. So, about a week into the fermentation, I boil up another pound of corn sugar and add it in.
 
As an update, I came out with an OG of exactly 1.080, it was in primary for about two weeks until activity died, the attenuation when I racked was about 1.026, so I hope it went a little farther. It has been aging with 1oz of american med. toast oak for three weeks, I am going to bottle it in another week and blend in some nice chardonnay in the bottling bucket to taste.

The samples I have had taste amazing, exactly what I wanted from this beer...I don't know if I can wait the months it requires to age, I will definitely be doing this again!
 
Here's a bump for a well-aged thread.

ColoradoXJ13 gave me a deuce of this a couple of weeks ago. I drank it last night.

Wow.

This is one delicious beer. The color, like most BGSA's, doesn't give away the punch the beer is packing. The head is relatively thick and a bit rocky, and there's plenty of carbonation, which gives it a nice zing.

The belgian character is just right -- nice phenolic nose and a bit of spicy licorice, which goes nicely with the oak character. No sour or horsey notes -- just clean spicyness. There's just enough malt presence to offset the alcohol bite, which is considerable, given that this beer is around 9.5%ABV. Any hops character has mellowed to really let the phenolics shine through. I wish I had more of this beer. I'm inspired to brew one of my own now.

Great beer. Well done.
 
If you are interested in this and other similar Belgian styles, I'd highly recommend "Brew Like a Monk". I just got finished reading it and it provides some great insight to making these great brews. As someone mentioned, table sugar is very similar to clear Belgian candi sugar that is available in the US. There is also some great information on filtering, cold conditioning and bottle carbonation.

Yes, a Belgian Golden Strong Ale is my favorite type as it is a wonderful beer.
 

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