1800 IPA: Pseudo-historic IPA recipe

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rexbanner

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Hey guys, I got the book IPA for Christmas and was thinking of trying to brew a 19th century-style IPA. Here's what I got from reading the book.

Older IPAs:

95-100% base malt
Hopped at extremely high rates (7 lbs per barrel)
EKG and fuggles hops
Aged extensively (~1 year)
Most likely underwent a secondary fermentation with brett in the barrel

Based on that, I'm going to try making something similar. Here's what I came up with:

1800 IPA

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.73 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 5.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 54.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 100.0 %
1.00 oz Target [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 2 35.5 IBUs
6.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 5.0 Hop 3 19.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124. Yeast 4 -
1.0 pkg Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WL Yeast 5 -
3.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Dry Hop 4 Hop 6 0.0 IBUs


So basically I don't want to wait a year to drink this. I'll brew it and once primary is over, rack it to secondary and pitch some brett c and oak chips. In three months I'll taste it, and I may or may not do a dry hop depending on taste. Then I'll bottle it up. Thoughts? Anyone tried something similar?

Also, a note on the hops: the hopping rate is lower than 19th century IPAs, but our hops are much higher quality. Also, I know from experience that using tons of EKG doesn't taste that great. The IBUs may be lower as well, but with less aging time, they aren't going to go down much.
 
I just finished the book and got really thirsty for IPA's every time I picked it up. I am impressed at the brewing process they used, especially the aging times. Not sure I want to wait that long myself. I have also been thinking of doing an historic version, but may wait until spring to get serious about it, too chilly outside now.

Keep us updated on your recipe and results.

Sheldon
 
This is an excellent idea - I really like it.

Couple things you MAY want to think about - I could be wrong, having not read the book.

First, wouldn't it likely be a bit darker malt? Maybe an amber, or something like that? I seem to recall reading somewhere that they weren't able to produce pale malt like we have today back then.

Second, I'd be curious what types of Brett would be the ones a beer like this would have been exposed to. Would it have been a blend of several? Something specific to the region.

This is really pretty fascinating. I wish you the best of luck.
 
Never read of English using bret in the ales,much less an IPA. And even my 1890's #3 Burton ale was a rusty amber color to match the malt colors of the day. Pale ales were dark amber red to coppery sort of color.
 
rex, I think this looks like a pretty good strategy overall. Are you going to at least tuck away a few bottles in storage to try a year or so out? Have you considered Burtonizing your water?

I do remember from the book there were several descriptions of historic IPA's as "brilliant" and "sparkling" but I think that refers more to the impeccable clarity of the beer rather than the color. (perhaps consider some finings?)

I'd have to look back to see what Steele says about color. It would make sense that they would be more copper or amber as the earliest incarnations of pale malt would have been "pale" relative to something like porter (the most common ale drunk during that era), and distinct from the super-pale malts we all use today. I'm not 100% on this though.

@unionrdr, it wasn't so much that they used Brett as it was an accidental byproduct of long periods of aging in oak barrels during a time when the specifics of yeast metabolism were not well understood. Mitch Steele spends a good amount of time in the IPA book speculating about this.
 
I don't think they "used" Brett so much as it just happened. Wild Ales mentions some wild ale production in England, but I feel like even if you weren't attempting to do it, it would be pretty likely to happen when storing beer for extended periods of time in wooden barrels. I bottled 1 gallon of my EdWort's haus pale with orval dregs, and 5-6 months later it was delicious, and still changing 8 months in.

Edit: homebrewhaha posts faster than I do apparently :)
 
Northern Brewer has a recipe which is a clone of Town Hall's 1800 English IPA

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...ric-english-ipa-pro-series-all-grain-kit.html

(this is the all-grain version, but NB has the extract version too)

I've brewed the extract version twice now, and it's really, really tasty. It calls for 7 oz. each of Kent Goldings and Fuggles (4 oz. EKG for bittering and 10 oz. for aroma/ late addition). Really good stuff, and it balances out the close to 10 lbs. of extract. My OG was about 1.080-84, which results in 8.6% and 8.4% ABV in the two batches.

Definitely worth a look. 2-3 weeks in primary plus 2 weeks or so in secondary sounds better than a year to wait.

Cheers :mug:
 
Well,one brewery in Sheffield,England mention to a journalist of the day that they barrel aged their Burton ale for 14 years. I casll BS on that,the beer would have to be a barleywine to stand up that long. Even then,IDK...
 
A few things.

Using a lot of hops in the boil may seem unnecessary beyond bittering, but the sheer amount of vegetal matter actually adds a lot of hop flavor even after being boiled for hours. Therefore, if you want to be authentic, drop the small amount of high AA% hops and load it up with whole leaf EKG. Pellet hops don't give the same character for this type of usage.

Also, color wise, don't think that all pale ales were coppery colored back then. That simply isn't true. Maltsters were using coke (fuel) by the early 1800's and were able to produce quite pale beers, so well that some people complained how the palest colored beers were the least flavorful. And then breweries included large amounts of sugar in their beers to further lighten the color.

Lastly, Burton Ales were the most highly hopped beers at the time. And guess what the first Barleywine was?? Burton no 1... a Burton Ale.
 
Are you going to at least tuck away a few bottles in storage to try a year or so out? Have you considered Burtonizing your water?

I will definitely save a few bottles to try over the next year. Unfortunately I moved and don't have access to a water report where I live, so adjusting my water is a lost cause.

A few things.

Using a lot of hops in the boil may seem unnecessary beyond bittering, but the sheer amount of vegetal matter actually adds a lot of hop flavor even after being boiled for hours. Therefore, if you want to be authentic, drop the small amount of high AA% hops and load it up with whole leaf EKG. Pellet hops don't give the same character for this type of usage.

Also, color wise, don't think that all pale ales were coppery colored back then. That simply isn't true. Maltsters were using coke (fuel) by the early 1800's and were able to produce quite pale beers, so well that some people complained how the palest colored beers were the least flavorful. And then breweries included large amounts of sugar in their beers to further lighten the color.

Lastly, Burton Ales were the most highly hopped beers at the time. And guess what the first Barleywine was?? Burton no 1... a Burton Ale.

Thanks, good info. I'll change the target for EKG.
 
Never read of English using bret in the ales,much less an IPA. And even my 1890's #3 Burton ale was a rusty amber color to match the malt colors of the day. Pale ales were dark amber red to coppery sort of color.

Brettanomyces was first isolated at a British Brewery by Claussen. The name is Greek and means British Fungus. I suspect it was pretty well established at a lot of Breweries of the time.

It is not something they used. They didn't know about it. It was just something that was present in the breweries.
 
Well,one brewery in Sheffield,England mention to a journalist of the day that they barrel aged their Burton ale for 14 years. I casll BS on that,the beer would have to be a barleywine to stand up that long. Even then,IDK...
Burton Ale is Barley Wine. A totally different style of beer from Pale Ale.
 
A few things.

Using a lot of hops in the boil may seem unnecessary beyond bittering, but the sheer amount of vegetal matter actually adds a lot of hop flavor even after being boiled for hours. Therefore, if you want to be authentic, drop the small amount of high AA% hops and load it up with whole leaf EKG. Pellet hops don't give the same character for this type of usage.

Also, color wise, don't think that all pale ales were coppery colored back then. That simply isn't true. Maltsters were using coke (fuel) by the early 1800's and were able to produce quite pale beers, so well that some people complained how the palest colored beers were the least flavorful. And then breweries included large amounts of sugar in their beers to further lighten the color.

Lastly, Burton Ales were the most highly hopped beers at the time. And guess what the first Barleywine was?? Burton no 1... a Burton Ale.
Totally correct with most of your points. They went to great trouble to get their malt as pale as possible. That's why Burton brewers all had their own maltings, so they had complete control over the colour.

Burton brewers were also very careful about how they boiled to avoid adding any colour. They had open coppers and tried to keep their boils short.

Massive quantities of whole leaf Goldings are just amazing in a beer. Pretty Things 1832 XXXX Ale had ridiculous quantities of them and is one of the best beers I've ever tasted.

But . . . Burton Ale and Burton Pale Ale are totally different styles of beer. Burton Ale is the stuff they made in Burton before Pale Ale came along.
 
The #1 Burton was a barleywine. The #3 Burton ale around the 1890's was a lighter version,or "pale ale" that the younger folks wanted. They weren't to fond of the sweeter barleywine #1. That's what I read on Barkley Perkins & Zythophile. And some of their boils were something like 3 hours. The barleywine,I'd tend to think would've been the longer one.
 
The #1 Burton was a barleywine. The #3 Burton ale around the 1890's was a lighter version,or "pale ale" that the younger folks wanted. They weren't to fond of the sweeter barleywine #1. That's what I read on Barkley Perkins & Zythophile. And some of their boils were something like 3 hours. The barleywine,I'd tend to think would've been the longer one.
Bass No. 1 was the original Barley Wine.

All the numbered Bass beers were Burton Ales. Only the Pale Ale wasn't.
 
From what I read,the #3 Burton was derived from the #1,just a lighter version. There were other breweries producing what they called a "Burton" that were just clones of the actual Burton ales.
 
From what I read,the #3 Burton was derived from the #1,just a lighter version. There were other breweries producing what they called a "Burton" that were just clones of the actual Burton ales.
No. 3 Burton was not a Pale Ale, just a less strong Burton Ale.

These are Bass's beers (and their gravities) from the 1870's:

India Pale Ale 1060
No. 1 Burton Ale 1110
No. 2 Burton Ale 1090
No. 3a Ale (Old Ale) 1085
No. 3b Ale (Bottling) 1085
No. 3 Burton Ale 1075
No. 4 Burton Ale 1070
No. 5 Burton Ale 1065
No. 6 Burton Ale 1060
No. 2 (P2) Imperial Stout 1095
No. 3 (P3) Extra Stout 1075
No. 4 (P4) Double Stout 1070
No. 5 (P5) Stout 1065

Note that No. 3 is descibed as "Old Ale".
 
3b,yeah. Down the list at 1.075 is the #3 Burton I toyed with brewing with extracts. Gunna cut the volume & add more hops next time.
 
3b,yeah. Down the list at 1.075 is the #3 Burton I toyed with brewing with extracts. Gunna cut the volume & add more hops next time.

Is it me, or are there 2 of you using the same picture? Very confusing!
 
The #3 Burton ale turning into pale ale by 1890. It was a pale strong ale to start with. as pale a malt as possible was the order of the day. Others said no,it's a barleywine,dark,& not a pale ale at all,it was a strong ale. It was a strong pale ale,so there. Who said pale ale could only be session strength? The style was just begining to define itself at the time,when viewed from our perspective.
 
The #3 Burton ale turning into pale ale by 1890. It was a pale strong ale to start with. as pale a malt as possible was the order of the day. Others said no,it's a barleywine,dark,& not a pale ale at all,it was a strong ale. It was a strong pale ale,so there. Who said pale ale could only be session strength? The style was just begining to define itself at the time,when viewed from our perspective.
No, that's not true. The exact opposite, in fact. Beers like No. 3 started getting dark around 1900.

The Pale Ale is easy to spot on that list. It's the only one with Pale Ale in the name.
 
From the way I've read all the info on Burtons,it got lighter,not darker. your own words in the description of brewing it bare this out. Geez. First & formost,it was to be brewed as light or "pale" as possible. If you meant the opposit,you should've wrote it that way. And pale ale colors to vary a bit to copper. It absolutely was not like porter or stout. that,good sir,is a falsehood. I wish I could find that site that had pics * posters of it again...
 
From the way I've read all the info on Burtons,it got lighter,not darker. your own words in the description of brewing it bare this out. Geez. First & formost,it was to be brewed as light or "pale" as possible. If you meant the opposit,you should've wrote it that way. And pale ale colors to vary a bit to copper. It absolutely was not like porter or stout. that,good sir,is a falsehood. I wish I could find that site that had pics * posters of it again...
It's very simple: the colour of Buton Ale changed a couple of times.

The 18th-century versions were dark, it became pale in the early 19th century, but started getting darker again in the late 19th century. You're right, it wasn't dark like Porter and Stout but dark like Dark Mild.

If you read 20th-century descriptions of Burton Ale they say it has a dark brown colour. And I've colour numbers for London-brewed Burtons from 1917 onwards. The same colur as Dark Mild.
 
I'm surprised no one mentioned this, or maybe someone did...

I had Maris Otter in the recipe, checking IPA they actually used the lightest possible pilsner malt (1.5 L). I'm going to go with 2 L German pilsner because that's what I've got. Getting the stuff to brew this on Friday.
 
Rex,that bares out what I gathered from the way what I read was worded. If it was copied verbatem,then it does make for some confusion. Like very old cookbooks,you were supposed to know how much of what they told you to use in the recipe. These old beer recipes to seem to read much like that. Wasn't trying to be a dick,but sticking up for what I understood from all I've read about them by way of how they were worded. Not to mention modern Burtons,which are like a medium to dark amber from what I've seen on youtube in the past.
 
Rex,that bares out what I gathered from the way what I read was worded. If it was copied verbatem,then it does make for some confusion. Like very old cookbooks,you were supposed to know how much of what they told you to use in the recipe. These old beer recipes to seem to read much like that. Wasn't trying to be a dick,but sticking up for what I understood from all I've read about them by way of how they were worded. Not to mention modern Burtons,which are like a medium to dark amber from what I've seen on youtube in the past.

Gotcha. I haven't had a chance to read all of IPA but from what I gathered the early Burton ales (1800-1850) were 100% pilsner, 70 IBU, preferably all EKG hops, oak aged, and probably underwent a secondary fermentation with brett.

I think something like that would taste really good. I'm very excited to try brewing this. If it works, it will become one of the special bottled beers at my nano. I'll follow up with how this turns out.
 
Gotcha. I haven't had a chance to read all of IPA but from what I gathered the early Burton ales (1800-1850) were 100% pilsner, 70 IBU, preferably all EKG hops, oak aged, and probably underwent a secondary fermentation with brett.

While the pale malts they were using back in the day may have approached the color of our modern pilsner malts, they certainly weren't made from pilsner as we know it. The consensus with the historical burton recipes is to use British pale malt (or) if you want something paler still, a mix UK and continental pale malt. Dingemans makes a good one I hear. Or, still yet, a British lager malt. No modern pils malt.

Also, remember that brewers went to huge lengths to prevent their oak barrels from imparting wood flavor into their beers. They even used a certain type of oak that didn't impart wood flavor.
 
While the pale malts they were using back in the day may have approached the color of our modern pilsner malts, they certainly weren't made from pilsner as we know it. The consensus with the historical burton recipes is to use British pale malt (or) if you want something paler still, a mix UK and continental pale malt. Dingemans makes a good one I hear. Or, still yet, a British lager malt. No modern pils malt.

Also, remember that brewers went to huge lengths to prevent their oak barrels from imparting wood flavor into their beers. They even used a certain type of oak that didn't impart wood flavor.

Unfortunately I don't have any of those malts. What's wrong with modern pils? To me pils is just grainier and more flavorful than American two-row. If you're saying to use something more neutral, I could use American two-row. I think that might make for a more boring beer, though.

Also, don't you think there'd be a little oak flavor if you're aging a beer 1-2 years in a barrel? I'm just going to do cubes for 3 months.
 
It's not that you want something more neutral, it's that your not going to get the same type of malt character from using modern pils as you would from a UK or continental pale. Pils is sweet and sharp (grainy) and your UK pales are going to give you a much more of a softer/rounded, biscuity flavor. Even UK lager malt is more like their pale malts than a typical German pils. Exactly how these circa 1800' pale malts actually taste, we don't know for sure, but we can be confident that they are not like modern pils malts given the grain source and kilning methods of the time.

Hell, if you just want to brew the beer with whatever you got on hand (even if it pils) and not do the whole historical-thing, that's great too. I'm just saying that for the sake of historical accuracy, the UK pale is probably closer to the stuff they were using than modern pils.

As per the oak barrels, some oak flavor did come from the barrels, as there are accounts of brewers complaining how casks of their beer have been tainted with oak flavor. This tells us two things: Barrels were probably not lined with pitch and that oak flavor was not wanted in their beer, regardless or not if it was prevalent. The two types of oak they used (that did not give off oak flavors) were 'English oak' and 'Memel' from Poland... which was heavily used by the Burton brewers.

I won't even start about Brett. :D
 
It's not that you want something more neutral, it's that your not going to get the same type of malt character from using modern pils as you would from a UK or continental pale. Pils is sweet and sharp (grainy) and your UK pales are going to give you a much more of a softer/rounded, biscuity flavor. Even UK lager malt is more like their pale malts than a typical German pils. Exactly how these circa 1800' pale malts actually taste, we don't know for sure, but we can be confident that they are not like modern pils malts given the grain source and kilning methods of the time.

Hell, if you just want to brew the beer with whatever you got on hand (even if it pils) and not do the whole historical-thing, that's great too. I'm just saying that for the sake of historical accuracy, the UK pale is probably closer to the stuff they were using than modern pils.

As per the oak barrels, some oak flavor did come from the barrels, as there are accounts of brewers complaining how casks of their beer have been tainted with oak flavor. This tells us two things: Barrels were probably not lined with pitch and that oak flavor was not wanted in their beer, regardless or not if it was prevalent. The two types of oak they used (that did not give off oak flavors) were 'English oak' and 'Memel' from Poland... which was heavily used by the Burton brewers.

I won't even start about Brett. :D

OK, so I have German pils, American two-row, and UK Maris Otter on hand. What would you recommend?
 
OK, so I have German pils, American two-row, and UK Maris Otter on hand. What would you recommend?

Sorry if I came across as patronizing on that last post. Not my intention. With those malts, either MO or a mix of MO and pale should be fine.

Good luck with the brew.
 
Sorry if I came across as patronizing on that last post. Not my intention. With those malts, either MO or a mix of MO and pale should be fine.

Good luck with the brew.

NP man, I'm sure I come off as patronizing all the time, it's just the way things are when you're not talking face to face. I'm here to learn, so it's all good.

I think I'm gonna do 60% MO 40% pale because I have a lot of both, and I think it will taste good.
 
I say if you're trying to recreate as accurately as possible the historic recipe then use British pale malt. Maybe MO & pale. If you want to recreate the recipe with your own interpretation then US pale would be fine.

I think it's great Ron chimed in on this thread. He's quite knowledgeable about historic British brewing and doesn't often post here.
 
Alright, since Ron is in the thread and its sort of on topic, where is Kristen? Are we ever going to get a new Let's Brew post? Maybe somebody can take over if Kristen is too busy with his brewery (I nominate bierhaus). I'm happy with just transcribed brew logs like the EI porter but someone should start an official thread that we can argue about substitutions.

That said, I'm also planning on brewing an 1800's IPA inspired by the IPA book. My plan was to kill my bag of weyermann pilsner, 100% EKG, wy1968 and WLP brett C.
 
I lurk a lot. I only post when I think I can contribute soemthing.

Funnily enough, I just got an email from Kristen about the reason for delay in Let's Brew recipes. Blame his kids (they've wrecked two laptops) and his brewery. The good news is that there should be a new recipe soon.
 
It's not that you want something more neutral, it's that your not going to get the same type of malt character from using modern pils as you would from a UK or continental pale. Pils is sweet and sharp (grainy) and your UK pales are going to give you a much more of a softer/rounded, biscuity flavor. Even UK lager malt is more like their pale malts than a typical German pils. Exactly how these circa 1800' pale malts actually taste, we don't know for sure, but we can be confident that they are not like modern pils malts given the grain source and kilning methods of the time.

Hell, if you just want to brew the beer with whatever you got on hand (even if it pils) and not do the whole historical-thing, that's great too. I'm just saying that for the sake of historical accuracy, the UK pale is probably closer to the stuff they were using than modern pils.

For a recipe like this, really really hoppy, highly attenuated and refermented with brett, I didn't think it would be a horrible crime against beer history to use german pilsner malt as modern UK malt is going to be different from burton white malt too. Maybe I should cut it with some MO or GP?

I won't even start about Brett. :D

Please start about Brett! What are your thoughts?

I lurk a lot. I only post when I think I can contribute soemthing.

Funnily enough, I just got an email from Kristen about the reason for delay in Let's Brew recipes. Blame his kids (they've wrecked two laptops) and his brewery. The good news is that there should be a new recipe soon.

Good to hear! Is there a message board people discuss this stuff on? Should we start a thread on HBT dedicated to lets brew? I'd love a FAQ about substitutions and somewhere I could ask questions.
 
I don't think MO, or any "modern" grain will be historically accurate. Also, the first Corn Law went into effect in the U.K. in 1815, making cost prohibitive to by imported grains, so German Pils is not going to be historically accurate, but seeing as how the title of this thread is 1880 IPA, German grains were more-than-likely imported into the U.K. prior to 1815. Also, if I remember correctly, 2-Row grows better in the U.K., and is the preferred grain. So, personally, I would use a basic 2-Row English pale.


Well,one brewery in Sheffield,England mention to a journalist of the day that they barrel aged their Burton ale for 14 years. I casll BS on that,the beer would have to be a barleywine to stand up that long. Even then,IDK...

Perhaps this was before the 1800s, but there was a point in time when new fathers of male offspring would brew a barrel of beer (or have one brewed for them) that was let to age until the son came-of-age, was married, etc. They did begin in the barleywine territory, but supposedly with the aging they really mellow out. There is a wine shop near my home that sells bottles of 12 year old beer that began life as a barleywine. I have yet to try it, but the shop owner swears that it has lost any indication of being a barleywine and has aged into a quite pleasant tasting ale, albeit quite potent with alcohol.
 
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