Saflager S-23

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Thanks for the tip. I cleaned and sanitized an old growler, boiled a qt of water, stirred in 1 cup DME, gently boiled for 10 min, cooled, put in growler, shook for 2 min, added ENTIRE yeast vile (had to beat on it to get it all out), shook for another 2 min, sealed with sanitized airlock and we got bubbles this morning! I can't believe it worked!

That was probably a bit too much DME - you want your starter wort to have a gravity of about 1.030-1.040. I use about 4 oz. (by weight) DME per liter of water (I don't know offhand just how much of a cup 4 oz. of DME is). Even though Palmer recommends the same concentration that you used, 1/2 cup DME to 1 pint of water (3rd edition, page 73) and he says that gives a gravity of 1.040, I think that must be wrong. I remember calculating that once and came out with a gravity of over 1.060. Maybe someone else can weigh in on this. At any rate, your starter should still work OK as is.

Another tip for starters - you don't want to seal them with an airlock - the yeast need oxygen to grow - with a starter, you are trying to make yeast, not beer, so you don't care if the beer ends up oxidized. I use a foam stopper in the mouth of my flask, but many people just cover the top with a piece of sanitized alum. foil crimped lightly over the top to allow air into the container. Shake the starter every time you walk by to keep the yeast in suspension as much as possible. When activity dies down, cold crash overnight and discard the beer, pitch only the yeast slurry (you can pitch the whole thing, but I prefer to pitch only the slurry).
 
I switched to foil, cold crashed, and tried to pitch slurry only. But by the time I dumped the liquid, I had a paste on the bottom of the jar that wouldn't come out! I used distilled water and swished it around to get it out of there. Hope it works...
 
I switched to foil, cold crashed, and tried to pitch slurry only. But by the time I dumped the liquid, I had a paste on the bottom of the jar that wouldn't come out! I used distilled water and swished it around to get it out of there. Hope it works...

I wondered about this very same thing. I made a starter with Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale Yeast yesterday in an Erlenmeyer flask that is bubbling just fine, but having read on Palmer's website the following: -

"One consideration when pitching a large starter is to pour off some of the starter liquid and only pitch the yeast slurry. One recommendation when pitching a large starter is to chill the starter overnight in the refrigerator to flocculate all of the yeast. Then the unpleasant tasting starter beer can be poured off, so only the yeast slurry will be pitched.",

I was wondering just how to get the slurry out of the flask? It seems like the distilled water would certainly work to loosen it up, but I wonder if it doesn't then becoming just the same "unpleasant tasting starter beer" that was just poured off.
 
fxdrider said:
I wondered about this very same thing. I made a starter with Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale Yeast yesterday in an Erlenmeyer flask that is bubbling just fine, but having read on Palmer's website the following: -

"One consideration when pitching a large starter is to pour off some of the starter liquid and only pitch the yeast slurry. One recommendation when pitching a large starter is to chill the starter overnight in the refrigerator to flocculate all of the yeast. Then the unpleasant tasting starter beer can be poured off, so only the yeast slurry will be pitched.",

I was wondering just how to get the slurry out of the flask? It seems like the distilled water would certainly work to loosen it up, but I wonder if it doesn't then becoming just the same "unpleasant tasting starter beer" that was just poured off.

We'll find out. I have pretty vigorous deem this morning (11 hours). Looks good. Smells right. So I guess I worked.
 
6 days and still bubbling at least once every 20-30 seconds. Egg smell is gone, smells wicked now. Another week and I will take a gravity reading. Its been at 12C. As mentioned above I used it in a mash extract recipe I made with Muntons Continental Pilsner. I can't wait for this.
 
HopHeadGrady said:
6 days and still bubbling at least once every 20-30 seconds. Egg smell is gone, smells wicked now. Another week and I will take a gravity reading. Its been at 12C. As mentioned above I used it in a mash extract recipe I made with Muntons Continental Pilsner. I can't wait for this.

It may be time to do a diacetyl rest.
 
We'll find out. I have pretty vigorous deem this morning (11 hours). Looks good. Smells right. So I guess I worked.

Just curious...how much water did you use? I would think you'd only need just enough to loosen the slurry - but I've never done a starter with liquid yeast before, so this is kinda new to me.
 
Just curious...how much water did you use? I would think you'd only need just enough to loosen the slurry - but I've never done a starter with liquid yeast before, so this is kinda new to me.

I just dumped about 2 cups of water into the growler I used for the starter, put the sanitized lid on, shook the hell out of it, and dumped the whole shebang into my primary, shook the hell out of that, and VOILA!
 
I just dumped about 2 cups of water into the growler I used for the starter, put the sanitized lid on, shook the hell out of it, and dumped the whole shebang into my primary, shook the hell out of that, and VOILA!

Cool. Thanks. That's just what I needed to hear! :mug:
 
Ok now i am concerned about this diacetyl rest stuff..
I just tested my Euro Lager mash extract and it doesn't taste like butter. Been in the bottle nearly two weeks now at 12C after being in the fermenter for a month at 12C.
I did nothing but stick it on the shelf of my cold storage. This used the coopers lager yeast. Turned out nice on bottling day. Nice and clear, 1006 FG. I didn't do any rest. Never heard of it actually before this thread.

Now for this next lager I pitched using s-23. As mentioned I am on day 6 of fermenting and theres still some activity going on.

If I just moved it from 12 to 18C for a couple days, then back into the 12C for a couple more weeks, will that screw it up. I could move the fermentor to my garage which is 2C but I start my cars up out there and dont' want all this crap near my beer.

Am I about to make a Butterball Lager? I basically have 2 temps to play with 12C, 18C

When i bottle it I can put it in the garage in a rubbermaid. Is this ok?

1) Move to 18C for 3-4 days
2) Move back to 12C for a week
3) Bottle
4) Let condition for a week at 70.
5) Lager in garage in rubbermaid container (2 C)
 
I just move mine indoors around 64 degrees when I am a few points away from my target FG. I leave there to finish. Then rack to secondary and place it somewhere where it's close to 32 degrees F

If you are using an airlock, you shouldn't have to worry about car fumes. I lager in my garage
 
I just move mine indoors around 64 degrees when I am a few points away from my target FG. I leave there to finish. Then rack to secondary and place it somewhere where it's close to 32 degrees F

If you are using an airlock, you shouldn't have to worry about car fumes. I lager in my garage

I do basically the same thing. I rack after one week, no matter what. Then I monitor secondary (still at 50ishF) until I'm close to FG. Then leave it in a room in the house that's closer to 65F for 2 days. Then plunge it into lager temps (35ishF).
 
Ok, so I am going to rack to a secondary carboy\airlock then and toss er into the garage.
My problem is that I haven't made this recipe before so I am not sure when I will be a few points off.
 
HopHeadGrady said:
Ok, so I am going to rack to a secondary carboy\airlock then and toss er into the garage.
My problem is that I haven't made this recipe before so I am not sure when I will be a few points off.

Use iBrewmaster or Beer Smith to estimate your FG for you.
 
HopHeadGrady said:
Ok, so I am going to rack to a secondary carboy\airlock then and toss er into the garage.
My problem is that I haven't made this recipe before so I am not sure when I will be a few points off.

I usually move it indoors when my airlock has slowed down considerably. Most of the off flavors you would get from too high fermentation temps come during the early vigorous stage of fermentation. I would take a sample. If its closes to 1.020, move it indoors
 
I managed to get my lager in to the target temp for the diacetyl rest for a couple days.
I was 1018 (from 1054), and now I am 1009. I siphoned to a 23L carboy and it's tucked in the corner of my garage at 0-1C. I am going to leave it there for as long as I can stand... probably a month... It tasted fantastic. The yeast at the bottom was like a very very lite brown colour and was compacted nice. I was able to get a lot of beer out.

Thanks for the tip here guys on the diacetyl rest.

How do you pronounce "diacetyl" BTW?
 
I have an octoberfest clone that's 11 days in and still going. Just tasted it today no butter that I could tell. First time with s-23 dry yeast. Almost fully fermented according to the gravity. 1.020. It might be too late for a rest anyway. There was still plenty of yeast clumps on the surface. I'll let it go a little longer and then set it to lager.
 
dubicus360 said:
I have an octoberfest clone that's 11 days in and still going. Just tasted it today no butter that I could tell. First time with s-23 dry yeast. Almost fully fermented according to the gravity. 1.020. It might be too late for a rest anyway. There was still plenty of yeast clumps on the surface. I'll let it go a little longer and then set it to lager.

You might want to do the rest yet. That could or should ferment out more 1.020 is fairly high FG
 
I've read in posts I should rest around 2/3 of the way through my primary. I've also heard it should be around 80% of the way thru. According to the recipe my fg should be 1.016, with an og of 1.056. I found my actually og was 1.058. Anyways that means I'm already just over 90% thru my primary. Too late? I've also heard to rest then rack and vice versa. Seemed to be good reasons for both.
 
I don't believe it's too late. Moving it in right before it finishes is perfect
 
So far so good with the Lagering. Sediment has formed at the bottom, for some reason the beer almost looks darker now. But it's very clear. You could see a layer of darker clean beer working its way down the carboy over time. I will post a pic, but when I took a gravity reading the beer is super clean, and tastes great. I am guessing this is because of the particles etc falling out of suspension? I am cold crashing all my beer as much as I can if this is the case for Ales too. Only good thing about Canada is my garage will be below 10C for 7 months of the year. I built a Lagering cabinet... no need for a fridge here. Im thinking winter will be my Lager season and summer will be my Ale season.
 
6 weeks later and it's still Lagering at 2C. I have kegs coming today and it will get racked to kegs and be one of the first beers on my new taps. The other is a Hefe. The beer is super super clear now and tastes smooth on the pallet with just a bit of Hallertau. This yeast rocks.
 
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