whats next

i started to make wine for the first time. I made it from concentrated juice,2 1/4ups of sugar,champagne yeast, 2 tsp of wine nutrient. made it to the directions off a web site. I put a balloon on top of jug. After 6 days the balloon is deflated, I'll shake the jug and balloon inflate then deflate. my question is what is the next step? I do reelize that this probably isnt going to be the best wine, but itll be a start to a learning process.

Quit shaking it for starters. You need the yeast to settle to the bottom so that you can rack it off into another container. Then after a few weeks longer, you will bottle. Do you have a hydrometer? This will be a better guide to tell you when to bottle. Also, I wonder if the CO2 is being absorbed back into your wine because there is no place for it to escape to.I think some people put a pin prick in the deflated balloon so that there is a little bit of room to escape. Some other more experienced people will have to comment on that.

Actually most fruit and juice wines recommend that you stir/shake daily for a week or two to keep the yeast in suspension. I also would not bottle after only a few weeks in secondary. you need at least 3months if not more in secondary in order for all the yeast and sediment to fall out.

heres my recommendation. Keep it in the primary (the container its in now) for at least another week, stirring daily. Then, rack into a secondary fermenter of the same size. You're going to want to top up with either a similar wine, boiled water, or sterilized marbles to make up the volume of what is left behind in sediment.
Keep it in secondary without shaking until you notice that the bubbles have stopped rising and then rack again and stabilize with Potassium Sorbate.
Then after that you're going to want to keep an eye on the carboy and rack in probably another 2-4 months to take it off of the sediment that has fallen out. You'll be suprised how much sediment a wine can produce even when it looks clear!
Since it is a fruit wine I would recommend aging for at least 3 months after it is clear before bottling. 6 months is better. A year is usually optimum.

Good luck!

bluue13 said:

Actually most fruit and juice wines recommend that you stir/shake daily for a week or two to keep the yeast in suspension.

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Really? Wow- I didn't know that you should stir for a week or two. Could you provide a link, or a book for me, so that I could see why I should start doing that? Thanks!

Sure, Just check out this link of recipes

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/visitor.asp

Most of the recipes recommend stirring one or two times a day during active primary fermentation. Also the book I use (Terry Garey's Joy of Home Winemaking) every one of her recipes requires the daily stirring of the must in primary fermentation.

It helps to keep the yeast in suspension producing a more active fermentation and it also helps (if you have actual fruit in your must) to keep the most possible liquid in contact with the fruit so you get maximum extraction of color and flavors.

In actual grape wines, the primary fermentation is a constant process of stirring and punching down the cap to allow the skins to impart their color and flavor and to allow the yeast to circulate through the must, not just sit on the bottom.

There is tons of literature on the web and in books about the process and as you said it definitely is a learning one! Dont hesitate to do some web searches on wine making. Welcome to the hobby and I hope this helped a little!

bluue13 said:

Sure, Just check out this link of recipes

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/visitor.asp

Most of the recipes recommend stirring one or two times a day during active primary fermentation. Also the book I use (Terry Garey's Joy of Home Winemaking) every one of her recipes requires the daily stirring of the must in primary fermentation.

It helps to keep the yeast in suspension producing a more active fermentation and it also helps (if you have actual fruit in your must) to keep the most possible liquid in contact with the fruit so you get maximum extraction of color and flavors.

In actual grape wines, the primary fermentation is a constant process of stirring and punching down the cap to allow the skins to impart their color and flavor and to allow the yeast to circulate through the must, not just sit on the bottom.

There is tons of literature on the web and in books about the process and as you said it definitely is a learning one! Dont hesitate to do some web searches on wine making. Welcome to the hobby and I hope this helped a little!

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Yes, but active primary is usually about 5 days. Certainly not two weeks! You only stir in primary generally to break up the "cap" that forms, not to keep the yeast in suspension. Trust me, an active primary looks like it's boiling, so the yeast are active. Any yeast that fall out do so because they are spent, or otherwise ready to flocculate and that is the stuff you DON'T want to have in secondary. You want to rack off of that stuff as soon as your OG is in the 1.010-1.020 range.

I read the same sources, but no where does it suggest to stir for two weeks to keep the spent yeast (lees) in suspension. You want to keep the cap wetted, that's for sure. Now, I'm not talking about sur lie- that's a whole different ballgame. But of course, that comes later in the process, not during primary or even early secondary.

bluue13 said:

Most of the recipes recommend stirring one or two times a day during active primary fermentation. Also the book I use (Terry Garey's Joy of Home Winemaking) every one of her recipes requires the daily stirring of the must in primary fermentation.

It helps to keep the yeast in suspension producing a more active fermentation and it also helps (if you have actual fruit in your must) to keep the most possible liquid in contact with the fruit so you get maximum extraction of color and flavors.

In actual grape wines, the primary fermentation is a constant process of stirring and punching down the cap to allow the skins to impart their color and flavor and to allow the yeast to circulate through the must, not just sit on the bottom.

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Garey's first time wine maker's apple wine makes no mention of stirring it in the primary daily. Garey does say something about it when talking about primaries, saying, "You need to stir the must, which is the water, sugar, and fruit before fermentation has set in..." However, every single one of Garey's recipes that calls for punching is made with fruit (fresh, frozen, or canned) because the fruit will rise to the top and not mingle with the juice, water, and sugar, which is the reason I think wineries punch, too. But this batch does not contain physical fruit, and therefore has no reason to stir it up.

YooperBrew said:

Yes, but active primary is usually about 5 days. Certainly not two weeks! You only stir in primary generally to break up the "cap" that forms, not to keep the yeast in suspension. Trust me, an active primary looks like it's boiling, so the yeast are active. Any yeast that fall out do so because they are spent, or otherwise ready to flocculate and that is the stuff you DON'T want to have in secondary. You want to rack off of that stuff as soon as your OG is in the 1.010-1.020 range.

I read the same sources, but no where does it suggest to stir for two weeks to keep the spent yeast (lees) in suspension. You want to keep the cap wetted, that's for sure. Now, I'm not talking about sur lie- that's a whole different ballgame. But of course, that comes later in the process, not during primary or even early secondary.

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Active primary length depends on what type of wine you're making and how fast the yeast brings the SG down to 1.010 range. I'm speaking specifically on fruit wines, not grape wines in this case. A lot of the recipes I follow have 10 to 12 days in primary, giving the must more contact with the fruit and I have yet to experience a problem with that length of time. All of my wines come out clear without filtering or fining.
I do know what an active primary fermentation looks like as well, I have made a few wines before And I didnt say it was to keep the spent yeast in suspension, just the active yeast. Go back and read again, it suggests on many sources and recipes to stir daily during active primary fermentation.

bluue13 said:

Active primary length depends on what type of wine you're making and how fast the yeast brings the SG down to 1.010 range. I'm speaking specifically on fruit wines, not grape wines in this case. A lot of the recipes I follow have 10 to 12 days in primary, giving the must more contact with the fruit and I have yet to experience a problem with that length of time. All of my wines come out clear without filtering or fining.
I do know what an active primary fermentation looks like as well, I have made a few wines before And I didnt say it was to keep the spent yeast in suspension, just the active yeast. Go back and read again, it suggests on many sources and recipes to stir daily during active primary fermentation.

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Yes, I've made more than my share of wines, too. I think we're splitting hairs here, as this is a balloon/juice wine. Certainly no reason to aerate it, or to stir daily. We are answering a query here, and took it off-topic, and for that I apologize.

Let's agree to disagree with the motivation behind stirring primary. I believe active yeast remain in suspension while they are active, and stirring is only to mix up the fruit and to break up the cap. You can certainly continue with your process as it works well for you.

I was a winemaker long before I started brewing, and continue to be more of a winemaker than a brewer even now. I'm familiar with most of the techniques, both old and new. My disagreement was with telling a new winemaker that they had to stir their primary for two weeks to keep the yeast in suspension, not with you doing it, but with the reasoning behind it.

You only really need to shake or stir it (punch down the cap) if there is fruit in the must or if you are having a problem with finishing the fermentation to get the yeasts back into suspension to finish fermenting which without a hydrometer youll never know if thats done. If its not showing any signs of fermentation then you can rack to a vessel with very little head space and sulfite it and add sorbate if you plan on sweetening this wine. You can let it sit for awhile and let it clear on its own or you can use a fining agent like Isinglass or SuperKleer to speed up this process.

juicebag said:

i started to make wine for the first time. I made it from concentrated juice,2 1/4ups of sugar,champagne yeast, 2 tsp of wine nutrient. made it to the directions off a web site. I put a balloon on top of jug. After 6 days the balloon is deflated, I'll shake the jug and balloon inflate then deflate. my question is what is the next step? I do reelize that this probably isnt going to be the best wine, but itll be a start to a learning process.

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If it's your first time I'm assuming you don't have any equipment. You also didn't say how big of a batch it is. If it's 1 gallon it's probably not worth the trouble of racking. I would put the cap back on after the balloon stops moving and seal it, and age it for a few weeks and see if you like how it tastes. If you like it you'll want to buy some winemaking equipment and make a bigger batch the next time.

bluue13 said:

Active primary length depends on what type of wine you're making and how fast the yeast brings the SG down to 1.010 range. I'm speaking specifically on fruit wines, not grape wines in this case. A lot of the recipes I follow have 10 to 12 days in primary, giving the must more contact with the fruit and I have yet to experience a problem with that length of time. All of my wines come out clear without filtering or fining.
I do know what an active primary fermentation looks like as well, I have made a few wines before And I didnt say it was to keep the spent yeast in suspension, just the active yeast. Go back and read again, it suggests on many sources and recipes to stir daily during active primary fermentation.

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Thou shalt not blaspheme against the Yoop! She'll smite you upside the head with her hockey stick of truth!

jkpq45 said:

Thou shalt not blaspheme against the Yoop! She'll smite you upside the head with her hockey stick of truth!

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I know you're just kidding, but I wanted to make sure that evyerbody knows that I'm NO expert! That's why I want to learn more about new ideas and thoughts and find out why some things I do may be different than others.

I make wine. But I'm certainly open to new techniques, and I like reading about new ideas and ways of doing things.

Besides I haven't hit anybody in the head with a stick since Sunday!

I also would like to add that I wasn't meaning any disrespect to anyone! I guess the interesting thing about wine making is the many different ways people go about doing the same thing, which is why its such an artform.
In any case, we can all continue to share our ideas and I will try to make sure my tone doesn't come across as rude or disrespectful one day someone will invent ways to make tone and inflection clear through typing haha!

enjoy brewing and fermenting, everyone!

bluue13 said:

one day someone will invent ways to make tone and inflection clear through typing haha!

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Dude what do you think that emoticon just did! I felt the happiness and sincerity in your typing...