Cut keg top for false bottom?

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benbradford

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Here is an idea that I came up with today...

I have several old keg tops that are sitting doing nothing, and I thought that I might be able to modify them so they will act as a false bottom.

I trimmed teh old sanke coupler fitting off of the top of the keg top, and grinded it down smooth, so that I am left with essentially a concave disc, that is twelve inches around.

A rubber stopper fits perfectly into the new hole (is the stopper okay for mash temps?)

A copper pickup tube from the bulkhead, pushed throught the hole in the stopper after I enlarged the center hole. This moves all the way through the stopper to about 1/2 inch from bottom.

I took the angle grinder and cut small slits moving from the center of the disc to the edge. There are about 8 rows of slits, ten per row.

I will test this on wednesday, and see how this new false bottom works :)
 
This is a great idea. Keep us posted on the result.

Another idea down that same road. If you didn't cut off the sanke neck. You could use a tri-clamp and cap. Drill the cap and insert your dip tube. Could decrease the chances of knocking out the stopper when you stir.
 
This seems like one of those "why didn't I think of that" kind of things. It's so simple it has to work, and for the price who cares if it doesn't. :mug:
 
I have two tops sitting there from my kegs as well. I also thought about using them as false bottoms. My plan is to plasma cut the areas in between the "triangles" and spot weld some SS mesh that I got from the scrapyard over the top of it. I might decide to go with a coarser "prefilter" over that. Maybe something with larger holes. We'll see how the mesh works though. I anticipate it being so fine that it will get clogged though.

Then only have to fashion a hole for the dip tube to fit into in the center. Weld a piece of SS with a hole drilled in and whammo! Done.

So at the speed at which my projects get done, I anticipate this going into use sometime next month or so...
 
Great idea.

Homer-I would not suggest a "prefilter". That would just allow smaller particles through, which could pack tight and clog the smaller filter. With a filter, you want the holes about the size of median particle (grist) size. It holds those back, and it forms a natural filter. Smaller particles are expected to come through, at least until the natural filter develops (you recirculate until this happens). At least that is how you design ground water well screens. I admittedly have zero experience with false bottoms.
 
Great idea.

Homer-I would not suggest a "prefilter". That would just allow smaller particles through, which could pack tight and clog the smaller filter. With a filter, you want the holes about the size of median particle (grist) size. It holds those back, and it forms a natural filter. Smaller particles are expected to come through, at least until the natural filter develops (you recirculate until this happens). At least that is how you design ground water well screens. I admittedly have zero experience with false bottoms.

Yeah, you may be right. I was not thinking about using it for a Mash tun. I was thinking for straining hops after the boil.

However, if I build my RIMS system, I would have to have a pump. And if I have a pump, I may change to recirculating my wort during the chill. Need to think about this some more.
 
The flow on this thing couldnt be better...I am ready for my new pump, and the herms coil. It drains as fast as the boil kettle, even though it is through a grain bed, and filter. I probably lost about a half gallon in the mash tun, but it looks like for now the efficiency into the the boil was about 86%!

Here is a pic of the finished product. Cost about $5.00.


http://picasaweb.google.com/108488725530733315820/100CANON#5509530347857091442
 
Ben,
Thanks for the idea. I just cut my keg and still have the lid. Also, are those weld-less fittings?
 
best DIY project i have seen in a while. this onr will actually SAVE me money. i have been holding off on a false bottom since my cooler mash tun works, but now i can convert that extra sanke into a MT. awesome, just an awesome idea.
 
Awesome. I was going to be in the market for a False bottom really soon. No point in not trying this first. I have a friend of the family with a plasma cutter. Might give it to him for holes vs slits. I like the tri clamp idea as well.
 
The flow on this thing couldnt be better...I am ready for my new pump, and the herms coil. It drains as fast as the boil kettle, even though it is through a grain bed, and filter. I probably lost about a half gallon in the mash tun, but it looks like for now the efficiency into the the boil was about 86%!

Great idea and nice work. It will be interesting to see how well it works with your new pump.
 
Guys, I'm planning an upside down keg for my MLT, "bottom draining" through the sankey opening - Thank you Duckfoot.

My "top" will be smooth and have no hole in the middle so this will be a PERFECT use for it. I am planning on a different lid for my MLT.

Thanks!
 
This is a picture of my herms coil. It will operate to control the temp of the mash, once my pump is here. Right now it is serving its other purpose as a fixed immersion chiller.
 
How wide are the slits in the keg? Have you had any problems with grains getting through? Really nice idea.
 
You might consider nipping the edge to allow complete drainage. I made mine out of a colander and decided to nip the edge so it wouldn't pool around the lip.

DSC04343.jpg
 
I used an angle grinder with a cut off wheel. The slits are as minimal as possible, just enought to push through the keg top. Basically, I would cut until the the blade pushed through the metal, and the cuts were pretty even for cosmetic purposes. I actually had no grain coming through at all. The grain itself kind of makes a filter bed, but even at first, other than the usual thick first runnings, everything was great. I was more worried about a slow flow that grains getting through.

As far as the edges, I felt like that there was never goind to be a seal on the false bottom as is, and some water would move through no matter what. My first brew did leave some wort behind, the dip tube through the stopper is now a little bit lower, but I assume some wort will still be lost. I will adjust beersmith to compensate, and I think that with the efficiency that I recieved (92% final efficiency), I won't worry about losing a half gallon in the mash tun, is no problem.

The parts that i used are as follows:

1/2 inch npt threaded to 1/2 inch compression
6 inches or so of 1/2 inch tubing
1/2 inch to 1/2 inch compression to compression, 90 degree angle
another 2 inch or so of tubing
the stopper
keg top

I hope to build another 6-8 of these and sell them on ebay (not for much, just enought to maybe pay for a new pump!)
 
I don't understand how you can lose a half gallon and still get 92% efficiency. Isn't dead space factored into efficiency?
 
I can adjust my equpment in beersmith to factor in loss to boil kettle and chiller. My efficiency into boil kettle might have been a little low, I topped up a little water into boil kettle. The gravitiy reading, into the boil kettle was pretty high however.

When I mentioned the half gallon, that is what I believe that will be the future loss, when the dip tube is pushed down pretty wellm and close to the bottom. I have always had some kind of loss in the mash tun, but as long as I get the correct amount or close into the boil kettle, I am happy. I have even stopped squeezing grain, or trying to get more out of the mash tun, as long as what is going into the boil kettle is the correct amount. Hopefully it is a better product going into the boil kettle, especially if some of the questionable mash is left behind.
 
Well, I did this DIY but a bit "over board" one may say...

I cut the coupling end of the top of the sanke off with the spare cut off wheels I had from making the keggle top. I then took it with me to my LHBS and fitted a #10 drilled bung. It was the off white rubbery kind. I asked the owner if he new off hand, what these things could handle as far as temps and he said,"I know a guy, that knows a guy, that uses one of those in the top of a water distiller. I also know that it gets to 178 degrees F." He then added, "He has been using those for years now this way. I just would not expose them to direct flame." I also had to use a 15/32" drill bit on the #10 stopper so that my 1/2" dip tube would go into it.

Then I ran to Harbor freight. I grabbed up a pack of the 1/8" nitrate coated drill bits and headed home. I got about 1/20th of the way through hand drilling a few hundred holes in this thing when all of these bits either smoked or snapped... :mad:
Ran back to HF and saw a pack of the 1/8" double ended short drill bits for $4.99. (It is like 2x as many for a buck more.) Grabbed them and another pack of the normal 1/8" "just in case". Headed back and opened up the double ended bits first. WHAT A DIFFERENCE THOSE ARE!!!!! I used a total of 4 bits to finish the job! (BTW I was not using any oil or water just "pulsing" the hand drill and applying a decent pressure.)
I made a + pattern then an X pattern with holes then split was left and filled in the larger areas that needed a hole. I did not center-punch all these and it shows...

Grabbed the trusty 4-1/2" angle grinder and loaded in 3 different "flapper/sander disks" that came in a variety pack at HF. (They had a couple grinder type and 4 cutoffs in the pack for $10.) They went fast but got all the burrs off the top and bottom. Once I found the "sweet spot" for the stopper on the 1/2" dip tube there is plenty of down pressure so I will never have to worry about stuff "sneaking under it" or it "coming up".

So, total time was 4-5 hours drilling and deburring (this could have been faster but my wrists tell a very different story...) and less than $20 in parts.

Here is were I add the obligatory use safety goggles, gloves and hearing protection when doing this...

Enjoy the pics!

Falsebottom4.jpg


Falsebottom3.jpg


Falsebottom2.jpg


falsebottom1.jpg


I did get to test this and it works great! As you can see I use the weldless keggle fittings from barginfittings.com. I just hand tighten the nut down onto the fitting, this makes for easy removal.
 
Let's see now:

Estimated $20 for parts & 4-5 hours even at a minimum wage would be roughly another $32 or so for a combined approximate total of $52.

While I admire the effort and your craftsmanship, I really don't understand why you would not simply buy a manufactured FB similar to this one for only $39 plus shipping:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/11-sanke-stainless-steel-false-bottom.html

I like building stuff myself, but sometimes it just seems to make more sense to simply buy it off the shelf.
 
That looks awesome, good work. I'll bet you'll get more satisfaction from using that, now that you spent the time and effort to DIY.
 
Let's see now:

4-5 hours even at a minimum wage ...

.....I really don't understand why you would not simply buy...


I can explain it for my household:
1. satisfaction
2. limited budget
3. I dont get paid for time around the house.

So for myself, and many others here I believe, this project is a great example of the balance achieved by increased satisfaction and reduced capitol expenditure.

Kind of like brewing your own beer... :fro:

Then again, you would likely laugh at my shop, brew rig, garden and truck. :D

But come drink my beer and you will only increase my satisfaction in the joy of process. :mug:

And kudos to this project. Now I know why I have the top I just cut off. Took it to work to throw in with the metal scrap and could NOT do it. I dont need a false bottom right now, but I am sure I will. Eventually.

Great work!
 
I agree with a potential loss of time and effort, if this is taken too far. I really like the build and the stainless parts that went with zamial's build.

My false bottom, however, came from the realization that my new mash tun, was going to be ready, and I had not remembered to buy a stainless braid.

I had several tops around, and compression fitting and stopper in my cabinet, and an angle grinder that was screaming to be used. The grinder approuch takes maybe 10 minutes to cut slots. Mine was ready in a total of maybe a half hour, and the 12 inches of copper pipe, fitting and grinder cost about $7

This really isn't meant to replace a store bought false bottom, but does cost about the same as the copper pipe setups, or the stainless braid setups, and imitates the efficiency of a false bottom.

BTW, a couple of brews later, and this thing drains perfectly, no stuck sparges, even without rice hulls. I flows as fast as the hlt drains, as if there was no grain bed restrictions at all :)
 
That is one purdy FB... I have two Sanke lids just sitting here... I was wondering if I should make a FB or a sparge arm / lid for my MLT...
 
It is really lame to come onto a DIY forum and rip on people for wasting time on DIY.

Well, IMO it would be retarded to interpret my comment as ripping on someone. I did not say that it is a waste of time. I only said that I do not understand why one would go to all that trouble and expense when the store bought ones are not terribly costly. It's just a point of view thing; nothing more.
 
Well, IMO it would be retarded to interpret my comment as ripping on someone. I did not say that it is a waste of time. I only said that I do not understand why one would go to all that trouble and expense when the store bought ones are not terribly costly. It's just a point of view thing; nothing more.

I may be "retarded" then.

You equated time spent working into dollars minimum wage. Than compared that to buying a piece of equipment. The reasoning behind that line of thought appeared to be that your time is worth more money. Thus I concluded that you thought it was a waste of time.

If you apply the same logic you stated to homebrewing beer, the conclusion would be similiar: you would not understand why someone would spend $20 in supplies and 6 to 8 hours (at your rate) to brew beer. As you could buy store bought that is not very costly in comparison.

The logic does not fly in a community that is about DIY. Time does not equal money directly here. There are other factors, including satisfaction and involvement in process.

That is my point of view.

Again, come drink a brew, we can chat about it. :mug:
 
Thanks for this diy, i will be doing this to put a fb in boil kettle to help keep some of the hops/break out of the fermenter. As for the negative comments from some, well yea I could buy this, but hell i could buy beer for that matter. Plus diy is very wife friendly as it doesnt generate receipts.
 
Am I a thread killer?

:mug:

It kind of looks like this thread strayed from it's original idea of cross utilizing leftover stainless from a keggle build.

Seems pretty simple, cut top off, make holes in top, connect to bulk-head, enjoy:)
 
Haha... Sorry man...

I applaud your effort to figure out what to do with a Sanke top... I also wondered what could be done, but alas, I was lazy...

Cudos to you sir...

:mug:
 
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