Gus_13
Cul de Sac Brewer
Well I found a vial of this from last year in my fridge. Wonder if it's still any good? I don't know how I over looked this. I never developed a recipe is probably what happened.
ECY34 "Dirty Dozen"--now what?
- Thread starter TriggerFingers
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if you believe chad yacobson from the crooked stave, brett's viability is lower at fridge temp then it is at ambient... so i would expect low viability but not zero. making a starter and giving it a week is probably the best way to gauge that. alternately use it as a secondary yeast along with some sacch.
Gus_13
Cul de Sac Brewer
I've wondered, ever since I heard him say that, about leaving my bretts out of the fridge. I wonder if that would work.
This may be a good candidate for a 1 gallon batch then use the dregs for something. The blend will be off kilter but I'm sure it will still brew something nice after the one gallon!
secondbase
Well-Known Member
Three months into my Dirty Dozen pale ale and it has formed a nice pellicle. Gravity is down to .0999. The complexity in flavor is really starting to come through now. I'm getting lots of fruit, mainly strawberry and melon with hints of vanilla and pear. How's everyone else's coming along?
I've made a few beers on this blend. Not a pellicle to be seen anywhere, but yeah, a lot of fruity aromas with full attenuation over time as expected.
my DD-as-primary batch is in secondary. i doubt that i'll touch it before it's a year old in November.
i also used DD as a bottling yeast for a saison that i bottled 7 months ago. i was expecting the bretts to chew off a few more points than they did, so the beer is a tad under-carbonated. such are the risks of adding brett at bottling. initially it was a lemon bomb, but the citrus is slowly giving way to some funk. a lot of development has happened since i lasted tasted this one about 2 months ago.
inflictor-of-grimness
Well-Known Member
I have some Dirty Dozen that I ordered back in February. At this point I think there's certainly not enough viability for a 100% fermentation, so I think I'm going to do a saison using some of the Saison Brasserie Blend that I saved from a previous batch and then do Dirty Dozen in secondary for a few months before bottling.
ShemRahBoo
Active Member
I quick soured a 1.042 wort 60/40 pale and wheat with lacto brevis and after three days pitched the dirty dozen blend. This kicked up in under 12 hours and fermentation appears done in just 3-4 days. 2 weeks after pitching the dirty dozen brett I plan on adding a tart montmorency concentrate from kingorchards. 16 oz concentrate is roughly ten pounds of cherries, I'm planning on 20 oz into this and letting that sit two weeks. Should be ready to keg then so about a month on this total. Quick and dirty kriek anyone? Hope it comes out well, previous quick sours have been great (especially a recent one with 15 lbs nectarines). Higher gravity then my berliners and with the bugs eating the cherry sugars I'm hoping the dirty dozen adds a nice character to my quick souring method.
Anyone have any thoughts on my method? I'm just hoping I get something different out of this.
Anyone have any thoughts on my method? I'm just hoping I get something different out of this.
secondbase
Well-Known Member
Your process sounds good. I would definitely let it sit for a few months to allow the Dirty Dozen to develop its character. Might have to steal your idea once I harvest the yeast from this batch.
be ready for a violent fermentation after you add that concentrate. it's like pure sugar. the yeast will go nutz.
should be interesting to see how this develops over time. ECY claims that DD develops a lot with complexity coming in around the one year mark. i wonder what it tastes like relatively fresh?
I added some maltodextrin syrup to a fermentor of old not-quite-sour-enough beer one time and had a violent offgassing eruption all over the room. It was really cool to watch, but no fun to clean up. I'd add the concentrate early in the process if it were me. And video record it just in case 
ShemRahBoo
Active Member
I'm thinking complexity over time like that would occur if used as a secondary strain. Used as primary I'm expecting it to be more similar to other 100% brett beers, where complexity will develop over time but not nearly as much. Now I'm really debating how long I should let this go before I keg (where I'll drink half and bottle half). I'm thinking maybe just a month after adding the concentrate, and thinking it'll be at terminal a couple of weeks before that even.
If I go just a month or shorter I do not think I'll have any issues with bottles exploding, the simple sugars of the concentrate should ferment out completely quickly. If I do this I can try some of this fresh and then stash some bottles to see if this develops any further in the bottle.
On the other hand, if I want to let this sit in primary longer (I wasn't planning on racking into secondary but should I worry about this?) I could also add a little oak for complexity.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
With 100% brett, young it's nice and clean, but it does develop some brett complexity with age. A little more than a single strain all-brett beer. If added as a second yeast it adds a lot of character.
I have a pitch I've been reusing in cider, it's definitely a bit wild tasting and kicks out more acidity than I expected. Works really well.
our knowledge of "what brett does" is centered on brux (and clausinii).
DD also contains anomala and naardenensis. this changes the rules of the game...
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
That's a good point. I suppose I should have said "100% mixed brett culture" or "with dirty dozen".
I popped a bottle of the cider last night, it is crazy good... I think it's the best cider I've ever had anywhere.
I have a "kriek" that I fermented in primary with a wild yeast isolated from germinating barley. Secondary was about 1/3rd of a vial of ecy34, this went in around a SG of 1.01 (OG was like ~1.05something).
At first the 34 was throwing a lot of sulfur off, 3 months later it went onto 9lbs of frozen thawed sour cherries. It smells awesome now, very gueuze like.
I have not done any beers with ecy34 as the primary, but from what I have I would say it really shines as a secondary fermentor.
Also just started a 4-way cider experiment with ecy34 as the fermentor, what did you notice in your ecy34 fermented cider?
At first the 34 was throwing a lot of sulfur off, 3 months later it went onto 9lbs of frozen thawed sour cherries. It smells awesome now, very gueuze like.
I have not done any beers with ecy34 as the primary, but from what I have I would say it really shines as a secondary fermentor.
Also just started a 4-way cider experiment with ecy34 as the fermentor, what did you notice in your ecy34 fermented cider?
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
The cider is bright, quite tart, and mildly funky. Not over the top at all, a pleasant moderate funk.
It took a lot longer to ferment than I'm used to, didn't bottle until 7 weeks, and then carb'ing up took a little longer than usual as well.
It took a lot longer to ferment than I'm used to, didn't bottle until 7 weeks, and then carb'ing up took a little longer than usual as well.
had another one of these last night, and the carbonation is finally up to something acceptable. still not saison effervescence but it'a at normal beer carbonation.
i can't say that i'm crazy about this beer. it has some tartness, and a little funk... but it's really drying on the palette, almost prickly. i'm not convinced that DD makes for a good bottling yeast, at least not with this particular saison. i may or may not try this again, TBD.
I've pitched ECY 34 DD into a tripel fermented with ECY13 Belgian Abbaye II, a 10.5% tripel that came out absolutely delicious - I still have the other 6 gallons clean. It's definitely drying out what were some very smooth and delicate pear/apple esters into something with a more pungent funk. It has only been 2 months, so quite a bit more time to go, but I would agree with the 'prickly' descriptor that sweetcell used to describe the dryness.
I have a dark saison that I co-pitched DD with ECY08 Saison brasserie, and it hasn't gotten quite so dry, definitely more tartness to that beer, perhaps because the DD got an earlier start. That beer is on month 7 in the carboy, and getting more complex with a spicy and tart funkiness that I am enjoying.
Another 1 gallon of Belgian stout wort fermented solely with DD has much more pronounced tartness and more restrained funk, enough to make one think there could be lactic acid bacteria at work. So many different flavors coming from this blend, all depending on how and when it's used.
I plan to update when these beers get to bottles.
I have a dark saison that I co-pitched DD with ECY08 Saison brasserie, and it hasn't gotten quite so dry, definitely more tartness to that beer, perhaps because the DD got an earlier start. That beer is on month 7 in the carboy, and getting more complex with a spicy and tart funkiness that I am enjoying.
Another 1 gallon of Belgian stout wort fermented solely with DD has much more pronounced tartness and more restrained funk, enough to make one think there could be lactic acid bacteria at work. So many different flavors coming from this blend, all depending on how and when it's used.
I plan to update when these beers get to bottles.
Schumed
Well-Known Member
Just kegged a 13 month dark saison ..might be the worse beer ever ..really weird not Brett like flavor ..way too dry probably oxidized too...not sure what went wrong but will stick to what I know when it comes too Brett
loctones
Well-Known Member
Any other updates on this blend? I just ordered some today, and I'm interested in hearing more about others' experiences. My initial thoughts are a standard saison with this blend and Dupont co-pitched, or a strong golden with WLP750 and this blend (hoping to get some nice interplay with the pear esters, maybe).
inflictor-of-grimness
Well-Known Member
I used my Dirty Dozen in a "farmhouse pale ale" with citra and mosaic a month ago. Maybe I'll pull a sample soon and let you know how it tastes as a primary yeast in a young beer.
I also saved some slurry from the yeast starter I made. I'll probably use that in a saison sometime soon.
I also saved some slurry from the yeast starter I made. I'll probably use that in a saison sometime soon.
secondbase
Well-Known Member
My DD pale ale is about 8 months old now. The flavor is a pure fruit bomb. Lots of overripe, musty fruit alongside a little tartness. I wish I had a carbed it a lot higher because the body feels a little flabby. Carbed it at 2 volumes, and if I could do it again, I'd go with 3+. I can't wait to get another beer going with this.
BGBC
Well-Known Member
Care to share some recipe details?
secondbase
Well-Known Member
Sure.
10# 2-row
8oz vienna
8oz flaked wheat
8oz acidulated
.5oz centennial @ 60
1oz each centennial, cascade @ 10
1oz each centennial, cascade @ flameout
No dry hop but I would if I make this again.
Mash 152º for 75 minutes. Pitched at 70º and rose to 75º. Took about 3 months to drop to 1.000. Bottled at 5 months.
my DD-as-primary batch is coming up to its one year anniversary, along with a few other sours (namely the other half of the same batch, which got ECY20 Bug County). at some point i need to take a half day to taste, blend and bottle several batches.
had another one of my DD-at-bottling saison. same as before: major citrus, tiny hint of tartness. a non-beer-drinker told me they specifically got lime. they also didn't like it, then again they don't like sour/funky beer. overall i'm not particularly impressed with this beer. doubtful that i'll repeat this experience - too much else to try, not enough carboys...
had another one of my DD-at-bottling saison. same as before: major citrus, tiny hint of tartness. a non-beer-drinker told me they specifically got lime. they also didn't like it, then again they don't like sour/funky beer. overall i'm not particularly impressed with this beer. doubtful that i'll repeat this experience - too much else to try, not enough carboys...
BGBC
Well-Known Member
Anyone have thoughts/opinions on using this blend for primary in a mead? Maybe @MarshmallowBlue ?
MarshmallowBlue
Well-Known Member
Did someone call?
I say go for it. Keep the ABV below 10, use .25lb/gal of maltodextrin if the blend has regular yeast in it.
BGBC
Well-Known Member
100% brett blend, but still thinking about adding the malto-d for mouthfeel purposes.
MD won't work, brett can ferment it.
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I have it going in a cider, don't see why it wouldn't be awesome in a mead!
BGBC
Well-Known Member
Would steeped oats be a better choice for the beta glucans?
http://www.lewybrewing.com/2013/02/100-brett-mead-oohh-yes.html
BGBC
Well-Known Member
Straight juice?
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Yes, mix of feral apples. But it finishes so dry even with regular yeast, I wasn't too concerned about enhancing mouthfeel. Strangely, though, it's a lot cleaner so far than previous ciders I've done with sacch.
popquizkid
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So I made a big brown ale (similar to Pentagram) and did 100% primary with this yeast. Added some oak cubes a few weeks ago and this actually was sour? This was a month in the fermentor.
Was a little surprised. ECY says it can develop some sourness with log term aging but I thought this was pretty quick. Curious to see what it tastes like after a few months on the oak.
Was a little surprised. ECY says it can develop some sourness with log term aging but I thought this was pretty quick. Curious to see what it tastes like after a few months on the oak.
Finally got my hands on some DD last week. Had an August production date, which surprised me (given how it flies off the Love2Brew shelves as soon as it's posted). Opened up the vial - no fizz/pop that one would expect from opening a vigorously shaken bottle of yeast.
4 days post pitch (sitting at 62 degrees) and still no signs of fermentation (meanwhile the other half of the 10 gal batch I brewed - spruce kveik - took off within 2 hours or so).
Anybody experienced a DD lag time this long?
4 days post pitch (sitting at 62 degrees) and still no signs of fermentation (meanwhile the other half of the 10 gal batch I brewed - spruce kveik - took off within 2 hours or so).
Anybody experienced a DD lag time this long?
Well 7 days later, it's finally working! View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1480129866.800987.jpg
The brett can take longer to get going, especially when not freshly pitched from a starter. If you pitched the whole vial, there's definitely enough to do the job.
I use DD as a bottle conditioning yeast, it doesn't take much, just a bit more time.
I use DD as a bottle conditioning yeast, it doesn't take much, just a bit more time.
Well dang- 3 weeks in and only down 10 points from 1.046. Is this normal for this blend? Roused, raised, and fingers crossed
