What is your reaction when you discover a 'local' beer is actually contract brewed?

In other words, a brewery that has been promoting itself etc as a local product is actually having their beer brewed somewhere else. Even as far as another state. And say, they make a very small percentage of their product in their promoted local brewery so they can say they are local, like <10%.

Does this impact your opinion of their beer? (And it happens probably more than you know!)

don't care, I buy beer because it tastes good. I don't care where it's from. Osama bin laden could brew it and if it was a great beer and reasonably priced I would buy 100 cases.

You don't find it disingenuous? That it impacts the soul of the brand in some way?

Just asking, no right or wrong answers here.

The only thing that impacts what I think of a beer, is how it tastes...nothing else. If I like the beer then I will spend money on it, and drink it, whether it is from a mega brewer if I am in the mood for it, a craft brewery, a brew pub, or a third party contract brewer (Like Trader Joes and Costcos, uses many contract breweries including Gordon Biersch, and unibroue for their signature brews.)

I emailed Gordon Biersch's brewmaster once, and he confirmed they are all brewed under the Reinheitsgebot.

So if the beer is good, I drink it, if it's ****e, I don't, it's that simple. I usuallydon't give a flying frig if it is brewed onsite or a contract brewery, heck, wasn't Sieerra Nevada or Sam Adam's contract brewed initially?

Heck some micro breweries/brewpubs, simply don't have the space to brew all the beer that they want onsite, especially if it's a chain....as long as they have developed the recipes with the contract brewers, that is fine with me. Now if a place claims to be a brewpub, and has no fermenter on site, and no brewer who coordinates with the contract brewer, then I might have a problem with it, somewhat, but again, if I like the beer, I like it.

If you ask them and they say they contract brew and they are upfront about it, fine...if they hem and haw and don't admit it and claim they are a brewery/brewpub but are just slapping their na,e on someone else's beer, then I would have an issue. But I think that is probably a rarity...I think most places, including breweries that contract brew are pretty above board about it. Then I don't have a problem.

Eh... depends on the place. If the centerpiece is the beer and they're promoting themselves as some great "local brewpub" then I might be irked - it all depends on the attitude of the place, the owner, the staff, etc.

A place that is more of a restaurant/bar that serves microbrew/local brews and focuses more on the overall experience (food, ambience, beer) - it wouldn't bother me so much.

If the beer is good, the food is good, and if it's local to where I live (i.e. I don't have to drive 10 miles to get good beer) I would probably still eat/drink there.

Mermaid said:

it all depends on the attitude of the place, the owner, the staff, etc.

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That's a big point right their...their attitude about it.

It is rare actually that a beer brand will admit they are actually brewed elsewhere. Here in NYC/LI for example, all beer with one exception is brewed elsewhere. And there is no one owning up to it, as it were...

fastricky said:

It is rare actually that a beer brand will admit they are actually brewed elsewhere.

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My experience as been quite the opposite. If you have a good relationship with a place, and you sound like you know what you are talking about, and you are complimentary about the beer, it's not too difficult to find out how/where it is brewed, if it is onsite or not, and by who......

Sure, if you take the time to visit the brewery and chat up the folks there...

fastricky said:

Sure, if you take the time to visit the brewery and chat up the folks there...

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You mean the knowlegable and friendly bartender actually. If they are into beer, as passionately as most of us are, and they genuinely like what they are pushing out, and you do, then not only will you get info, but maybe a few free drinks too. Again, it's going to be about the attitude, yours and theirs....Like I said, if it's good beer, it really doesn't matter if it's contracted or not. I think the only places that are going to be cagey, are the one's that are in it for the money, and don't care if their beer sucks or not, don't know what they're going, or think their poo has no aroma...but most genuine places are going to be above board about things. At least in my experience.

True enough Revvy!

fastricky said:

It is rare actually that a beer brand will admit they are actually brewed elsewhere. Here in NYC/LI for example, all beer with one exception is brewed elsewhere. And there is no one owning up to it, as it were...

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Who are you referring to? Brooklyn Brewery contract brews Brooklyn Lager, and a few of their permanent runs, but not their specialty beers. They are honest about that. Sixpoint brews locally on the equipment that Heartland owns in Brooklyn. Heartland doesn't brew at their actual brewpubs, but they brew their own at the facility in Brooklyn. Chelsea brews on site. Coney Island is contract brewed, and they are also honest about it.

In LI, Southampton brews on site for the pub, but contracts what they bottle. John Harvard's is on site, Black Forest Brewhaus, onsite. Blue Point I'm not sure of, but I have a friend who has toured the brewery. I've never been to the others, so I cannot comment.

For me it all kind of depends on the situation.

I really liked Kona's beers for a while. Then I found out that they were part of the Craft Brewers Alliance (or something to that effect) which Anheuser had a 49% stake in, and that soured it for me. I still buy Kona every now and then, but less often than I used to.

On the other hand though, I was in Lake Placid last summer and managed to get a tour of Ubu's brewpub. It's tiny. They brew onsite ONLY for the brewpub. The stuff you buy in the store is contract brewed by Saranac/FX Matt brewery a few hours away. I'm fine with that - I get it. They don't have the capacity in house to brew enough for the stores, but Saranac is set up nicely for that, and that's fine by me.

I guess it comes down to management and ownership for me then. When anheuser is trying to make a buck off of a good craft brew that doesn't have their name on it it bugs me. But Ubu has no problem telling you that they are contracted out....

Sixpoint is now brewed out of Pennsylvania.

Great South Bay, Brooklyn, Southhampton, Blue Point, all contract brew as well. Brooklyn only makes a small percentage of their beer locally, but that will change with an expansion they are working on now.

I would be put off if a "local brewery" wasn't locally brewing their own beer. It would depend though. I'd be more understanding if they were being assisted by a larger brewer letting them use their "spare" equipment, while they work on growing to the point where they can actually brew on their own. Sometimes that's how a little guy can hit the ground running.

Our local brewers are local. One has 3 restaurants and one franchise that aren't actually "brew pubs". They have their brewery in a central location and ship their beer out to the restaurants and surrounding areas.

fastricky said:

Sixpoint is now brewed out of Pennsylvania.

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I didn't know this, but the brewery still exists, so I bet it's mostly Sweet Action that gets contract brewed.

fastricky said:

Brooklyn, Southhampton, Blue Point, all contract brew as well. Brooklyn only makes a small percentage of their beer locally, but that will change with an expansion they are working on now.

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But none of these have ever lied about it. Southhampton is actually brewed in Wisconsin I believe. And they all brew a good amount of beer locally.

Personally, I'm with Revvy, doesn't bother me at all. I'm not a "hipster" so I wouldn't have a problem with things like branding and locality. If it is good, I'll buy it. Hell, spend some time at Brooklyn Brewery... its full of the very people who "refuse" to accept stuff like contract brewing and deception! I've been there many times. Great time.

A lot of great perspectives here.

My 2 cents is it does matter to me. What I like about craft beer is it is about more than mere product. It is a labor of love, passion, blood, sweat and tears. And for the practitioners that have made it on their own, with their own hands and hearts, well, I give that a lot of props.

Clearly craft brewing has become a profitable industry - and many have jumped on the bandwagon not necessarily to make a fast buck (tho' some do) but certainly to market a decent product and take the fastest way to making a profit.

Sure, that is just good business sense. And much of it translates to good beer.

I guess I just like to root for the little guy. And have a romantic notion about integrity and how that has to translate to the pint glass.

One man's opinion clearly y'all!

didnt i see this thread on TGP ;D

Wow, I didn't think the 2 worlds intersected!

fastricky said:

Wow, I didn't think the 2 worlds intersected!

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there seems to be a few homebrewers on TGP..

Many brewpubs just don't have the capacity like others have stated. Belmont Brewing down in my area brews all of the house beers on tap on site as well as all the bottles sold at the restaurant however all of the bottles sold in stores are brewed and bottled about 30 mins away down in Irvine. They just don't have the fermenters to make enough on site.

If they claim to be brew pub but don't brew beer, I have issue with that.

I used to go to a place on business that brewed two beers and had the usual fair of commercial beers. They brewed a light pale ale and dark mild style of beer and that was all. The sold them as light & dark, no style distinction whatsoever. In fact I went there for two years before I new they brewed their own beer. They don't push it very much. Anyhow, the last time I was there they had a "Red Ale" on the beer list. I drank a few sitting at the table. Finished dinner then drank at the bar. I ordered another, they did a two pull 75% Miller Light, 25% dark ale and called it red. I was floored!!! The bar keep said they were out of the light and the red, so this was how they were told to make a red beer!!! - That is so wrong.

I went to a place called the Ale House in Oakbrook IL. They only had one ale out of about 20 taps. I think it was Bass. The selection predominantly focused on mainstream beers, or Lagers. BMC I didn't even argue about the 12oz pint either. Food was ok, I got deep fried lobster which was nothing to right home about or recommend for that matter. It happen to be the special. It seems to be fo-pas in a way. Who deep fries lobster then covers it with cheddar and salsa? - That place is so wrong on many levels.

fastricky said:

You don't find it disingenuous? That it impacts the soul of the brand in some way?

Just asking, no right or wrong answers here.

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Soul of the brand? For real?

Found a "brewpub" in Cadillac and called to see what they had. I asked what type of brewing system they used and they said they don't brew there. They have it contracted by (I think) Bells.

Ok, so if you are NOT brewing ONSITE, you are not a brewpub. You may have a signature beer, but you are not a brewpub.

*Caveat: Unless you have your wort made somewhere else and ferment onsite. However, I doubt that was the case. I have not been there.

fastricky said:

My 2 cents is it does matter to me. What I like about craft beer is it is about more than mere product. It is a labor of love, passion, blood, sweat and tears. And for the practitioners that have made it on their own, with their own hands and hearts, well, I give that a lot of props.
!

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Is there less love in an offsite facility?

It would make no difference to me. I'm more interested in a product that I actually liked to drink and was able to afford.

I would be irked a little bit. I try and drink local beer. I like to drink local beer where ever i travel to.

Synovia said:

Soul of the brand? For real?

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Unless you are Jim Koch, saying "soul of the brand" just sounds weird...

What is your reaction when you discover a 'local' beer is actually contract brewed?

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There's no place like home.......There's no place like home.

BTW, I was only referring to breweries, not brewpubs, which is clearly odd if they don't make their own beer.

Interesting thread for me, I thought for sure there would be a groundswell of support for not contracting, but clearly not the case.

Most of the topics have really been touched upon already...attitude, honesty, etc.

I think the biggest thing for me is that if a local brewery gets an unexpected burst of expansion then contract brewing is the best way to handle it. Lancaster Brewing Co here in southern PA was pretty small time until they got a contract with semi-recently built baseball stadium. All of a sudden they've now got this huge unexpected demand and no way to fill it. They are located in the city, where do they expand? Do they shut down the restaurant and just brew for the stadium? Of course not. Allow your excess demand to flow over to someone with the capacity to brew your recipe to accommodate this demand. If the demand continues consistently then building another brewery or expanding your existing one would prove beneficial, but with the finicky tastes of the average consumer you really don't know what might be in store for the next 5 years. Contract brewing is a great way for a small brewery to get into the game without a huge cost up front....as long as the recipes are original and (as others have said) they're honest about it, I think it's not only "okay," but wise.

fastricky said:

BTW, I was only referring to breweries, not brewpubs, which is clearly odd if they don't make their own beer.

Interesting thread for me, I thought for sure there would be a groundswell of support for not contracting, but clearly not the case.

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I think most of us who have been part of "beer culture" awhile are really not surprised by it. We know beer history, we understand the Jim Koch started out using a contract brewery. And that Brooklyn Brewery still does. Heck even a couple folks on here who have "gone pro" have started with them.

It's a lot more above board then a lot of new brewers/beer geeks might believe. I think a lot of newer "craft beer geeks" see thing more dramatically than folks who've been around awhile do. They see "the big bad corporate monster that is BMC," or in your case contract breweries as something "bad." When in reality, it IS reality.

It's the same thing with the fact that not every beer geek HATES bmc or thinks the old BS chestnut that "Anheisur Bush started to use adjuncts in their beers to cut cost and foist an inferior product on the people."

Once you start delving into beer and beer history, especially the history of beer in the US, and you read Maureen Ogle's "Ambitious Brew: The Story of American Beer." You get more real about stuff like that and it doesn't really bug you. Some people will drink craft beers, some folks will prefer bud light...and neither folk is, is dumb, or wrong, or better than the other, for what they chose to drink. Bud light's not going anywhere, despite the sales lost to craft beer every year. Craft beer's been around pretty much since the day I turned legal 24 years ago, by now there is not one beer drinker on the planet, or at least not North America, who doesn't see a ton of other beers on the shelves next to their beloved Bud Light, and many BMC folks do try those other beers, just like they may try our homebeers, and STILL choose to stay with what the know best. They have a choice. And they make it everyday. Just like we do.

Meh. I know Sargeants Brewing Company has Michigan Brewing Company brew their beer. It's a plain American Lager. Like, terribly plain lager IMO. MBC contract brews lots of beer. I think their doing good with Kid Rock's American Bad Ass Beer though. (Let's not tangent onto that subject though...)

I have no idea how much recipe formulation and decision making went into Sargeants by the veterans who started the project.

Homercidal said:

Meh. I know Sargeants Brewing Company has Michigan Brewing Company brew their beer. It's a plain American Lager. Like, terribly plain lager IMO. MBC contract brews lots of beer. I think their doing good with Kid Rock's American Bad Ass Beer though. (Let's not tangent onto that subject though...)

I have no idea how much recipe formulation and decision making went into Sargeants by the veterans who started the project.

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Yeah, Kid rock is being brewed by MBC.

It's great that he went local for it, even though I don't think it's a beer I'm interested in.

Homercidal said:

Found a "brewpub" in Cadillac and called to see what they had. I asked what type of brewing system they used and they said they don't brew there. They have it contracted by (I think) Bells.

Ok, so if you are NOT brewing ONSITE, you are not a brewpub. You may have a signature beer, but you are not a brewpub.

*Caveat: Unless you have your wort made somewhere else and ferment onsite. However, I doubt that was the case. I have not been there.

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What about places like BJs and Karl Strauss which have all their own beer, but are brewed at a central location and shipped to the restaurant/pub?

Schlafly out of St. Louis is actually partially contract brewed up in Wisconsin. They've out grown there two breweries in the area and had to keep up with demand.

Schlafly is still my favorite brewery, by far. The people there are great. I've personally met the two head brewers and gardener. All are amazing people and will take the time to help a homebrewer out with questions.

So again, it comes down to the attitude of the people who work there.

I am all for buying local. If it turns out it's not local then it loses points with me. There are a lot of great beers so I would just move on to something else.

I think one thing that affects my belief on this is that the Matt Brewery is in NY and it is one of the biggest contract breweries around. I believe that they are the ones who make Brooklyn and used to make Sam Adams. Because I have experience with their Saranac brand, and how good some of their beers are, I don't see why one would shun contract brewed beer.

Revvy, I fully agree with you about the new beer geeks. But I think it's not so much that they are new, its that they think being a beer geek somehow makes them better than the average beer drinker who drinks BMC. Me personally, my favorite summer beer is either a kolsch or original Budweiser. I never understood all of the BMC hate.

They make beer; no one should hate them.

My "bmc hate" stems more from their sales tactics than from their product. Homebrewers I think know better than most that the difficulty that goes into creating that "BMC swill" is at a level that most of us can never dream to approach. There's no room for off flavors, there's no "aging out," there's no "I missed my numbers."

There's a market for the product, no doubt. There's also market for McDonalds. BMC knows they're not making beers that are complex or flavorful. They make a crsip, refreshing beverage that appeals to a large audience.

I take more issue with deliberately misinforming the public by using catchphrases like "frost brewed" or "triple hops brewed" or "taste the rockies" than with the flavor of the beers. For god's sake...you've already got half-naked women on your commercials, do you need to assume we're all idiots too?

snowveil said:

I take more issue with deliberately misinforming the public by using catchphrases like "frost brewed" or "triple hops brewed" or "taste the rockies" than with the flavor of the beers. For god's sake...you've already got half-naked women on your commercials, do you need to assume we're all idiots too?

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couldn't agree more. Not that I mind the half naked women, but I hate the quotes that they have. The new vortex bottle that helps "unleash the triple hops brewed taste" is ridiculous. The one that annoys me the most though is how coors is "the coldest tasting beer in America." Can someone explain to me what "cold" tastes like?

It gets me when I'm hanging out with a few BMC drinkers and they'll get in an argument about which ever brand they are loyal to, and their arguments are based off of the commercials on tv. "Dude, miller is better than coors - it has more hops! it's triple hops brewed!" Gah....