Roadie
Well-Known Member
Brewed today and had a discussion about efficiency with someone. He said you don't really want efficiency greater than 80% but I thought more was better. Thoughts?
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Black Island Brewer
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It helps me to remember that 100% efficiency would be grinding the malt to flour and doing a multiple hour mash. Not good for making good beer, but great for determing extract potential. Above a certain efficiency you may extract undesirable flavors, mostly tannins, but that will be impacted by the pH and the water to grist ratio. I am currently getting around 82% mash conversion efficiency, but that's with really good Pacific Northwest water and a mash tun with recirculation capability. I don't seem to be extracting tannins with this arrangement.
JuanMoore
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Some people feel that with higher efficiency there are more unwanted flavors extracted, and that the wort from a more moderate efficiency set-up is higher quality.
Commercial brewers usually strive for really high efficiency because it translates to huge differences in cost. At the homebrew scale an extra pound of grain per batch usually isn't a big deal, so consistency is typically more important than high efficiency.
Commercial brewers usually strive for really high efficiency because it translates to huge differences in cost. At the homebrew scale an extra pound of grain per batch usually isn't a big deal, so consistency is typically more important than high efficiency.
I heard John Palmer talking about this. He said that he's tasted a lab condition mash with 100% extraction and it tasted terrible. Very high on tannins. Since that's not what we want our beer to taste like, we try to hit the balance between making the most of the grain we have and not extracting tannins from it - hence 75-85% efficiency.
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Roadie
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Culbetron said:
This is exactly what was quoted to me. I was thinking 90% was ideal but maybe the ideal number is lower than I thought. On Kal's Electric Brewery setup (we're putting a similar system together) I thought he said he's getting 90+% efficiency but maybe that's not necessarily a good thing then?
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"Best" is a relative term when it comes to efficiency. The best efficiency is the one that gives you a good tasting beer with consistent results brew after brew. It will differ greatly from person to person, system to system depending upon the equipment set up and the grind of the grist as well as other things.
If you are getting good results and your efficiency is fairly consistent, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Kick back and pop open another home brew!
If you are getting good results and your efficiency is fairly consistent, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Kick back and pop open another home brew!
d_striker
Well-Known Member
With a non-recirculated, single infusion mash that was fly-sparged, I consistently obtained around 81% efficiency.
I got a pump and started recirculating my mash. My efficiency jumped to 91% with no astringency. IMO, as long as pH is controlled you shouldn't be extracting tannins from the husks.
I got a pump and started recirculating my mash. My efficiency jumped to 91% with no astringency. IMO, as long as pH is controlled you shouldn't be extracting tannins from the husks.
d_striker said:
How consistent is this claim? 10% from the investment of a pump or if I were to sit there and just vorlauf the whole time seems like a lot. Is this really the only variable you changed? Malt, water, mash tun, crush all the same? Sorry I don't mean to sound interrogating I am just amazed. I have used different mash tuns and different methods and always seem to get 71-73, with 73 bein my sweet spot for some reason usually.
This ^^^^^^^. I'm perfectly happy getting 76% so long as it remains consistent and predictable.
songe
Well-Known Member
How do you determine efficiency? my total amount of fermentables where around 12.5lb and i got an OG of 1.090 at 6 gallons.... :S
You're using DME, not grain. You are not extracting sugars from grains so you don't need to worry about efficiency.
d_striker
Well-Known Member
The crush is the same. I use RODI water and build water to specific profiles. I generally keep overall Ca and Mg levels the same but alter the amount of Sulfate to Chloride. Mash ph is always at 5.2-5.35. Sparge water is always at 5.2ish with the use of lactic acid. All other equipment the same.
My 80-81% efficiency was always spot on. I brewed today for the third time with the pump. Efficiency was 88%. The first time I got 91% my overall mash time was 90 mins; about 15 min protein rest at 130, 15 mins to get temp to 152, and 60 min sach rest. I think the longer mash contributed to the higher efficiency.
Today I just did a 60 min recirculated mash at 154. I was in a bit of a hurry and sparged fairly quickly. About 2qts/minute rather than my usual 1qt/min. Grain bill today was 40% wheat.
This video is from the first time I used the pump. This batch was supposed to be a blonde ale but I overshot my gravity due to the unexpected jump in efficiency. Not to mention this thing attenuated like crazy.
[ame]http://youtu.be/ZBMlG6KqTIY[/ame]
songe
Well-Known Member
No sir. Grains all the "way" added 1kg of belgian candy since recipe called for that.
But before diluting my brew i had 1.100 as OG.....
d_striker
Well-Known Member
Your prior post about 12.5lbs of fermentables was misleading. I also assumed you were talking about extract.
What do you mean by 12.5lbs of fermentables? 12.5lbs of grain?
Efficiency depends on what type of grain you're using. Different grains have different "extract potentials."
Enter your exact grain amounts, collected wort pre-boil volume, and pre-boil gravity into the following calculator.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/
songe
Well-Known Member
yeah.. sorry was abit unclear about that... but hey 87% Efficiency. not bad for first time biab.
d_striker
Well-Known Member
What was your grain bill and how much wort did you collect?
As a former BIAB brewer, I'm a little skeptical about 87% efficiency.
I've tried a beer from a fellow homebrewer which achieved 90% efficiency. It was a great beer!
I can't achieve that kind of efficiency with my set-up yet but he is who I field all my technical questions to.
I can't achieve that kind of efficiency with my set-up yet but he is who I field all my technical questions to.
songe
Well-Known Member
um.
1 x candy syrup: 1.35kg
6kg plisner heidelberg extra light BM
1kg Munich malt light 15 EBC
OG after boil was 1.100... i think there is allot of vaporization from my kettle.. so i added water to get it around the 20 liter mark. or 25... not sure its not written on my glasscardboy. only the 30 liter mark. and now after 5 days fermenting its at 1.020.
d_striker
Well-Known Member
Like I previously stated, as long as pH is properly controlled tannins won't be extracted.
My beers consistently score in the 40's.
songe
Well-Known Member
well. the syrup boosts my OG allot... after mash i had around 1.054. and after boil 1.100.
d_striker
Well-Known Member
Efficiency is related to grains only. You would leave your candy syrup out of the equation. Efficiency is literally the percentage of sugars you are extracting from the total potential of said grain.
You need to know what the volume and gravity of your wort was preboil before adding the syrup.
songe
Well-Known Member
5.2 gallons ish and preboil before adding candy 1.052
d_striker
Well-Known Member
songe
Well-Known Member
ah xD im totaly new to this soo 
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