Help...steeping grains

I'm brewing a winter spiced ale, said to steep the grains at 152 to 158 F for 30 minutes. I stuck the thermometer in the gains thinking that would give me a good reading of the gains temp. I smelled something kind of funky and put the thermometer in the water and it was almost 200F. I took the water and gains off the stove and now watching the water temp. Is this bad???

joesixpack said:

I'm brewing a winter spiced ale, said to steep the grains at 152 to 158 F for 30 minutes. I stuck the thermometer in the gains thinking that would give me a good reading of the gains temp. I smelled something kind of funky and put the thermometer in the water and it was almost 200F. I took the water and gains off the stove and now watching the water temp. Is this bad???

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Well, it's not good. But you will still get color and flavor from the grains, even if it got too high so you can just soldier on and remember not to do that again! Remember from now on to stir, stir, stir, so that the grains are thoroughly wetted and the same temperature as the liquid in there. Sometimes the grain is jammed too tight into the bag and can't get wetted by the liquid in there, so it's better to use two bags if necessary.

If there were grains that needed to be mashed, the enzymes would have been denatured if they got that high. But color and flavor should still come from them.

Well i'm 16 minutes into 30 minutes of steeping and the temp is 167F. It was in the high 190's when i started the 30 minute steeping. I'm going to roll with it and see what happens. Maybe the orange spice and cinnamon will help with any bad flavors.

Urgg...

Thanks for you help!

Mike

I have had good success adding the steeping grains in a muslin bag when the water is warm and continuing until 20 minutes (by my recipes) or 170 degrees is reached. They have coincided within a couple of minutes on all the steeping recipes that I have done.

kh54s10 said:

I have had good success adding the steeping grains in a muslin bag when the water is warm and continuing until 20 minutes (by my recipes) or 170 degrees is reached. They have coincided within a couple of minutes on all the steeping recipes that I have done.

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This is what my Northern Brewer Black IPA recipe said to do... it's still fermenting, but was tasting nicely sweet before I pitched the yeast. It was only my first time doing this method.

My True Brew Oktoberfest said to kill the flame at boil, put in the specialty grains, and let steep for 15 to 20 minutes. So it started at boiling, and ended around 150 with all the stirring I was doing. Then I came on to these forums, and started to question that practice.

But regardless, I'm thinking he'll be ok. My True Brew recipe turned out ok.. didn't have that tannin flavor to it.

At the end of the 30 minutes of steeping the grains were at 161F so they steeped between 198F and 161F for 30 minutes. I need this by the 17th for a friend who is having a holiday party. I could get a new batch and remake it tomorrow night or keep the ship a sail and see what happens. I don't want it to end up that no one likes it and my friend has to get more beer to make up for it.

Happy holidays...

joesixpack said:

At the end of the 30 minutes of steeping the grains were at 161F so they steeped between 198F and 161F for 30 minutes. I need this by the 17th for a friend who is having a holiday party. I could get a new batch and remake it tomorrow night or keep the ship a sail and see what happens. I don't want it to end up that no one likes it and my friend has to get more beer to make up for it.

Happy holidays...

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Well, the 17th is only 18 days away. If you're kegging it might be doable. But I would definitely not plan on it.

I am kegging it and the recipe calls for 5 to 7 days and then second fermentation 5 to 7 days. So by the recipe i should be fine. The real question is will steeping the grains at such a high temp cause the beer to taste bad and no one will like it. However, if i made it correctly people still may not like it. I don't know i just hate it when things don't go as planned.

joesixpack said:

I am kegging it and the recipe calls for 5 to 7 days and then second fermentation 5 to 7 days. So by the recipe i should be fine. The real question is will steeping the grains at such a high temp cause the beer to taste bad and no one will like it. However, if i made it correctly people still may not like it. I don't know i just hate it when things don't go as planned.

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I don't think you'll extract excess tannins, or at least not too badly, but I do think that you may be rushing things. I keg many beers at 3 weeks old, and drink them. But some beers take longer than others and I would be hesitant to serve a 2.5 week old spiced beer since they tend to have darker grains and spices that may take a bit longer to mellow.

"Early" beers tend to be milds, pale ales, etc, stuff that doesn't have complex flavor. A spiced beer may take longer than 2 weeks to be ready.

Don't worry about it. Dave Line's extract procedure in "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" (circa 1975), called for leaving the steeping grains through the whole boil. I assume his beer generally came out pretty good.

We know we can extract tannins if we let the grains get over 170F, but when steeping we are not using too many grains, and it is probably not that noticeable.

I think the fear with the hot temps is that you could extract tannins from the grains. I've never had this happen to me so I don't know if it will make your beer taste bad or not. The next time you are brewing with steeping grains, put your thermometer in the water and not inside the grain bag. This way you will be sure your water will not get too hot.

I'm going to roll with it and try not to worry about it, which is highly unlikely. However, I've posted here a few times referencing my fermentation time and a lot seem to think it's two short. The recipe and all that i've made so far states 5- 7 days and then 5-7 days second fermentation then keg or bottle. Is that wrong or is it more personal preference? I get my recipes from a local brew house and would think they know what they're doing but maybe not.

The recipe is a guide line really. Some people have fermentation end that quickly. I find it usually takes about 10-14 days. A secondary isn't really necessary, but if you do use one, wait until primary fermentation is over. The only way to tell when fermentation is complete is with your hydrometer.

If the grains were burnt/scorched. Don't add the "steeping" water to the main volume of wort. The flavor of the scorched grain will permeate the wort. If your Ph wasn't in the park, and at the high temps, you stripped tannins...If you add orange spice, cinnamon, oreos, or whatever stuff you're using, to burnt toast. You'll still taste the burnt toast...I loved this: "I don't want it to end up that no one likes it and my friend has to get more beer to make up for it.".... If your brew fails. Why would your friend have to get more beer? He didn't louse up the beer.

joesixpack said:

I've posted here a few times referencing my fermentation time and a lot seem to think it's two short. The recipe and all that i've made so far states 5- 7 days and then 5-7 days second fermentation then keg or bottle. Is that wrong or is it more personal preference? I get my recipes from a local brew house and would think they know what they're doing but maybe not.

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You can rack at 7 days, and bottle 7 days later. I did it for years and made some decent beer.

Leaving it longer will not hurt it and will generally improve it:

- You ensure fermentation is over.
- After main fermentation is over, the yeast start converting some of the harsh alcohols to esters, and reduce acetaheldhyde.
- It clears leaving less sediment in the bottles.
- Harsh flavors tend to mellow.

All this can happen in the bottle, but when you take if off the yeast cake it takes a lot longer. Also the flavor tends to develop better when in bulk (I don't know why).

I think my minimum these days is 4 weeks to the bottle, with many staying in the fermenter for 8 or even 10 weeks. Some sour beers are still in the fermenter after 12 months.

I don't think your time line allows but using PVPP can reduce tannins...It needs time to settle out however.

What was your water to grain ratio? I generally use 1.5 to 2 qts per pound, very similar to mashing to help keep the pH down. High temps with high pH can cause tannin extraction problems.

You may finish primary in 5-7 days. My latest is 7 days now and is still in a fairly vigorous activity. I plan on leaving it in primary for a month then bottle conditioning for 2-3 weeks. This is a pretty standard time frame.


Did the recipe allow for bottle conditioning. I would expect the absolute minimum would be 10 days fermenting and 10 days bottle conditioning. If you are kegging you may be able to force carbonate and cut a few days.

I would expect you will have beer but likely green and flat.


Well, good luck.

I am kegging it and force carbonating after 14 days of fermentation for a couple days, we'll see what happens. Thanks for the advice.

VladOfTrub said:

If the grains were burnt/scorched. Don't add the "steeping" water to the main volume of wort. The flavor of the scorched grain will permeate the wort. If your Ph wasn't in the park, and at the high temps, you stripped tannins...If you add orange spice, cinnamon, oreos, or whatever stuff you're using, to burnt toast. You'll still taste the burnt toast...I loved this: "I don't want it to end up that no one likes it and my friend has to get more beer to make up for it.".... If your brew fails. Why would your friend have to get more beer? He didn't louse up the beer.

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He asked me to make it specifically for this party so someone will have to go and get 2 cases of beer to make up for it if no one likes it. Not that big of a deal but he lives 20 minutes from the store so 40 minute round trip. I guess he could buy a couple cases of a winter brew to have on hand.