The taste of Failure...

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Joe13

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Well it happened finally.

I just broke into my last 4 batches of Mr. Beer brews. 4 two gallon full recipes.

Chauffer Red Ale
Blonde Bombshell
Bengal Tiger IPA
Cinco De Mayo cervesa

They are all ruined. :( Each one has a bitter, slightly alcoholish off-flavor that is exactly the same. and that is after three weeks fermenting, two weeks warm condition and 8 days in the fridge.


I think I have found the problem though. into the third week of their fermenter time, the beer so temps from 95-100 degrees for three days. I am guessing this is what caused the issue I am running into now. Im kinda sad to be dumping them, as the clarity and head retention on them are good. I will be investing in a fridge to control fermentation before I brew another batch. Any tips or tricks are appreciated or if you can confirm the heat was the issue I would appreciate it!
 
What are the ferm temps at the beginning of fermentation. That I believe is the more critical time for temp control.
 
You've found exactly the issue. Once you get your temperatures under control, your beer will be better than 90% of homebrewers. It doesn't need to be as expensive as a fridge (though there are cheap ones on craigslist), though. If your humidity is low, you can wrap your fermentor in a wet towel and point a fan at it- re-wetting as it starts to dry. If not, you can get a big rope-tote bucket (muck-bucket in some places), put your fermentor in there, fill it with water and drop frozen water bottles in it to maintain a constant temperatures. You always need to have a few 2Liters frozen though.
 
What are the ferm temps at the beginning of fermentation. That I believe is the more critical time for temp control.

It was around 70-72 for the first two weeks. similar to the temps of my last 8 gallon run which came out awesome.

You've found exactly the issue. Once you get your temperatures under control, your beer will be better than 90% of homebrewers. It doesn't need to be as expensive as a fridge (though there are cheap ones on craigslist), though. If your humidity is low, you can wrap your fermentor in a wet towel and point a fan at it- re-wetting as it starts to dry. If not, you can get a big rope-tote bucket (muck-bucket in some places), put your fermentor in there, fill it with water and drop frozen water bottles in it to maintain a constant temperatures. You always need to have a few 2Liters frozen though.

yea I am trying to find a cheap used fridge that ill throw a controller on. That way it becomes relativly self-sufficient. I figure if I can find a small mini fridge i can take the door off and make a little insulate room that it feeds.
 
I'm not saying it's salvageable, but at least read this before you dump it all:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

That is a good read. I will leave them be for now. IDK if it matters, but they are in the fridge. I won't dump them until I absolutely need the bottles, and I wont be brewing until I can pick up stuff to make a decent fermentation chamber. So we shall see how it comes out in a couple more weeks. My hopes aren't high, but who knows.
 
My first batch (also Mr Beer) was fermented too hot and had some bad off flavors but were much better after a few months. Come back to these in a few months and they should be much better or you can cook with them. The LBK fits nicely in a cooler where you can swap out frozen water bottles to lower temps. I did this after my first batch and kept the temps around 65f in the LBK and things came out great from then on. I know do 5 gal AG batches and use a rubbermaid bucket half full of water with frozen 2 liter bottles, but my little Mr Beer keg is still used for apfelwein and other high powered things I don't need 5 gallons of.
 
So i had a friend over yesterday to give them a try and confirm/debunk my findings. We have found that the Blonde is by far the worse, the cinco de mayo has the least taste, the Red is the best with only a small bitter taste to it, and the IPA in undrinkable :(. That stinks since I really like IPAs. So my hunt is on for a cheap fridge/freezer, and the rest of the beers will continue to chill and be tasted at regular intervals in order to determine if the flavor goes away or not.
 
So i had a friend over yesterday to give them a try and confirm/debunk my findings. We have found that the Blonde is by far the worse, the cinco de mayo has the least taste, the Red is the best with only a small bitter taste to it, and the IPA in undrinkable :(. That stinks since I really like IPAs. So my hunt is on for a cheap fridge/freezer, and the rest of the beers will continue to chill and be tasted at regular intervals in order to determine if the flavor goes away or not.

I wouldn't expect much change in taste if you keep them cold - I'd keep them at room temperature, about 70 ºF, if possible. Keeping them cold just slows down any changes and preserves the beer as it is.
 
Fermentation temperatures ARE important- but if they were in the low 70s during fermentation, the beer shouldn't be that bad.

I'm wondering about water- is it possible that you used tap water with chlorine or chloramines?
 
Fermentation temperatures ARE important- but if they were in the low 70s during fermentation, the beer shouldn't be that bad.

I'm wondering about water- is it possible that you used tap water with chlorine or chloramines?

That's what I'm thinking. If temps were in the low 70s for the first couple weeks, it really shouldn't matter what happened after that. Temp control is very important, but much more so during the early stages from pitch to high krausen when the yeast are going to produce most of their flavor causing compounds. Low 70's is a bit too warm for most yeasts, but not so much as to be causing undrinkable beer. I'd look at other culprits as well as a simple way to maintain ferm temps in the mid 60's or so.
 
I wouldn't expect much change in taste if you keep them cold - I'd keep them at room temperature, about 70 ºF, if possible. Keeping them cold just slows down any changes and preserves the beer as it is.

That's what i figured, but i don't want to warm them back up for fear of skunking them.

Fermentation temperatures ARE important- but if they were in the low 70s during fermentation, the beer shouldn't be that bad.

I'm wondering about water- is it possible that you used tap water with chlorine or chloramines?

That is what I thought. I used tap water, but it was all run through a brita Filter. I had previously made 4 two gallon batches doing this the same way and they came out great. Only difference was that I didn't have the heat wave I decribed above.

That's what I'm thinking. If temps were in the low 70s for the first couple weeks, it really shouldn't matter what happened after that. Temp control is very important, but much more so during the early stages from pitch to high krausen when the yeast are going to produce most of their flavor causing compounds. Low 70's is a bit too warm for most yeasts, but not so much as to be causing undrinkable beer. I'd look at other culprits as well as a simple way to maintain ferm temps in the mid 60's or so.

that is my thinking. I figure I should get fermentation temps under control and see if it happens again. right now I cant think of another reason that i would run into this issue.

You can always cook / bbq with the beer.

True. My main concern is that i only have a certain amount of bottles, so I have to free up these in order to continue to brew

Were these extract or AG batches? What kind of water did you use?


All extract Mr. Beer recipes. right off of their website. I used my tap water, but all of it was filtered through a Brita pitcher.
 
I am wondering one thing though. All of the recipes had hops in them. i left the hops sacks in for the full ferementation time. All of the recipes told me to, but I am wondering if the extra time may have pulled more bitterness out then was intended??
 
Two weeks to condition? That's just not enough time. I've made beers that aren't really good until after 2-3 MONTHS of conditioning. If your beer doesn't taste good, chances are you just haven't given it enough time. If you used recipe kits, their instructions for conditioning time are pretty much garbage. I've used recipes where it took 2-3 times as long to condition properly as the instructions stated. In my experience, there is nothing that will impart more of an off-taste to beer than a too-short condition time. In fact, I've stopped giving beer to friends unless I know for a fact that they're finished conditioning, because the difference in conditioned and unconditioned beer is enormous.

EDIT: Agree with the comment above, but also, and for future reference, please, please use a longer conditioning time.
 
Wait so you threw the hops in for a 2 week fermentation? That could be the problem for sure!

Three weeks. I did that with the prior round of beer too and It didn't have this same effect. But It would explain why the IPA is undrinkable and the others are just different levels of bitterness. I am wondering if the heat and hops might have played parts together? I think either way I def want a temp control fermentation system to at the very least remove one of the unknowns.
 
Two weeks to condition? That's just not enough time. I've made beers that aren't really good until after 2-3 MONTHS of conditioning. If your beer doesn't taste good, chances are you just haven't given it enough time. If you used recipe kits, their instructions for conditioning time are pretty much garbage. I've used recipes where it took 2-3 times as long to condition properly as the instructions stated. In my experience, there is nothing that will impart more of an off-taste to beer than a too-short condition time. In fact, I've stopped giving beer to friends unless I know for a fact that they're finished conditioning, because the difference in conditioned and unconditioned beer is enormous.

I thought that too, but It fermented for three weeks, warm for two and cold for one. that is all over their recommended lengths, and its also the same timeline as the last batches I did which turned out amazing. IDK if it matters, but these kits seem to be a lot quicker then most partial and AG setups.
 
I thought that too, but It fermented for three weeks, warm for two and cold for one. that is all over their recommended lengths, and its also the same timeline as the last batches I did which turned out amazing. IDK if it matters, but these kits seem to be a lot quicker then most partial and AG setups.

Still, it's cutting it way, way short. Whatever you decide to do, make sure to keep a good portion of your beers for a month longer at room temperature and taste again. I'd bet real money they will taste substantially better. Even with my extract batches, two weeks was never enough time, and the first ones I did, I swore there was something critically wrong with my method. Not so. I came back to them after more than a month and they tasted awesome. I don't know why recipe kits have such short condition times, since it sets every new homebrewer up for apparent failure as they taste their beers and think they did something critically wrong.
 
Still, it's cutting it way, way short. Whatever you decide to do, make sure to keep a good portion of your beers for a month longer at room temperature and taste again. I'd bet real money they will taste substantially better. Even with my extract batches, two weeks was never enough time, and the first ones I did, I swore there was something wrong with my method. Not so. I came back to them after more than a month and they tasted awesome.

See, I made the mistake of putting all of them in the fridge. I think I might just struggle through most of them, build up a ferm chamber, and continue on, though Ill give them a bit longer warm and bottled. I had lucked out on my first five batches, so It was sure to hit a snag eventually.
 
See, I made the mistake of putting all of them in the fridge. I think I might just struggle through most of them, build up a ferm chamber, and continue on, though Ill give them a bit longer warm and bottled. I had lucked out on my first five batches, so It was sure to hit a snag eventually.

They will continue conditioning if you just pull them out of the fridge... shouldn't matter how long you've had them in there.
 
I too started with MR. BEER, and had terrible results, I mean terrible! I was more upset that I bought a bunch of recipes to start off with.

I found the Brooklyn Brew Shop kits (all grain) and had success. I started brewing the extracts from MR. BEER in the one gallon fermenter from Brooklyn and again, success.

I have sworn off the MR. BEER fermenter.
 
They will continue conditioning if you just pull them out of the fridge... shouldn't matter how long you've had them in there.

Is there anything wrong with warming them up if they have been cooled though? I was always under the impression that it wasn't a good idea to warm up chilled beer.

I too started with MR. BEER, and had terrible results, I mean terrible! I was more upset that I bought a bunch of recipes to start off with.

I found the Brooklyn Brew Shop kits (all grain) and had success. I started brewing the extracts from MR. BEER in the one gallon fermenter from Brooklyn and again, success.

I have sworn off the MR. BEER fermenter.

The funny thing is that i have had good luck with Mr. Beer kits. it just happen to be this particular run that went bad. I have four more recipes sitting and waiting for me to brew.
 
Is there anything wrong with warming them up if they have been cooled though? I was always under the impression that it wasn't a good idea to warm up chilled beer.

No issue. This 'urban legend' was the result of a big macro-lager's advertising campaign. It is false.
 
No issue. This 'urban legend' was the result of a big macro-lager's advertising campaign. It is false.

I guess I will pull them out today and let them warm up and condition for a couple more weeks. See how it goes. until then i'll pick up some commercials and work on collecting more and more bottles so I can get myself a decent pipeline going without have to run throug beer as quickly.
 
I guess I will pull them out today and let them warm up and condition for a couple more weeks. See how it goes. until then i'll pick up some commercials and work on collecting more and more bottles so I can get myself a decent pipeline going without have to run throug beer as quickly.

Give it a shot, but hold on loosely. There are some things time doesn't heal.
 
If it tastes bad to drink, it will taste worse in food because the liquid reduces, and the flavors concentrate. Same thing as cooking with bad wine.:mug:

I agree with this advice, with two exceptions:

1) Light lagers - Bad to drink to me, but are awesome in cooking, especially beer bread. Then again, their problem is lack of flavor, not flaw in flavor, so concentrating helps there I think.

2) Fusel/hot flavors - I think because they evaporate. Not sure, but have made some killer sauces/marinates/crockpots with hot beers. Not so with other flaws.
 
Give it a shot, but hold on loosely. There are some things time doesn't heal.

Yea, I took them out, and will give them a week or so more. If i lose out, i lose out. The good news is that I have stumbled into a free freezer so a ferm chamber will be happening!:ban:
 
Yea, I took them out, and will give them a week or so more. If i lose out, i lose out. The good news is that I have stumbled into a free freezer so a ferm chamber will be happening!:ban:

Lol, two weeks of conditioning + "a week or so more" is not going to be enough. Save them for at least a month more. Or ship them to me and i'll store them for free. :mug:
 
grimstuff said:
Lol, two weeks of conditioning + "a week or so more" is not going to be enough. Save them for at least a month more. Or ship them to me and i'll store them for free. :mug:

Two weeks conditioning is plenty after three weeks in the fermenter. At least with mr beer kits. I'd ship em over, but I need the bottles. :lol:
 
My first Mr Beer kit needed almost 2 months before the off flavors started to fade, but were still noticable. That was also the same time they had all been consumed as I punished myself for making bad beer by drinking it and haven't had a bad batch since... Yet! Now I gotta go knock on some wood
 
Update. I've drank all four that I put in. IPA is still miserable, the red and the blonde have improved a bit. The corona one is actually perfect. It was the least bitter the first and the most drinkable. I plan to put some more in and see how they are progressing.
 
Since my last post I have done this...

Started the mr. Beer kits in my conical fermenter. Leave it there for two weeks as primary.

Move the beer into two one gallon fermenters to secondary adding gelatin to help clear the beer. Leave it in secondary for a week.

On the day of bottling I will cold crash it to clear it further, I then bottle condition for a MINIMUM of two months. I made an Irish red which turned out great.
 

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