I don't think full boils are for me

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jigidyjim

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Did my first brew with my new larger kettle today... Unfortunately my stove could barely get it to a boil. It was bubbling, but not vigorously, and after the LME was added, couldn't get past 209 or so. First I had it on my one super burner, but I think the weight was too much and the flames didn't have enough room, as occasionally flames would shoot out the side. So i stradled two burners but that didn't do much good, and at that point I wasn't able to get the full flame of each burner anyway...

Combine that with the fact that carrying 5-6 gal of water in a pot is no fun, pouring it into the fermenter is tough, etc. I'm not sure that I'll be doing full boils that often. at least when I do partial boils now I won't worry about boiling over. Oh - for those of you about to suggest I get a turkey fryer, I don't have a space outdoors to do that.

I still ended up having to top off slightly under 1/2 gal, and I think that messed up my O.G. reading, which came out really light (1.042 vs expected of 1.048). I started with 6 gal water, after adding 6 2/3 lbs LME it read just under 7 gal, and at the end it looked to be close to 5 gal, but after leaving the solids behind, I still had to top off.

Oh, plus I think I put too much anise in (it's a belgian wit with a ton of spices in it). Hopefully that mellows out. I don't even really like anise, why did i put that in?

Good times.
 
Figure out a way to mount a simple electric element in the kettle, and you're set. Lots of people can help you with that better than I.

You can do all grain now!
 
I have wrapped my kettle in about 8 layers of aluminum foil before, it DRASTICLY increased my boil. I wrapped it all the way down so it was flush with the stovetop.
 
WIP said:
I have wrapped my kettle in about 8 layers of aluminum foil before, it DRASTICLY increased my boil. I wrapped it all the way down so it was flush with the stovetop.
Click to expand...


If you plan on boiling on your stove, you need some supplemental heat or insulation like WIP does. It's all about delivering energy to your wort. Many use propane with a burner, but those that use electric tend to use an immersed element rather than an external one. Don't give up on full boils, just manage your energy delivery so that you get the BTUs to your liquid.
 
Dude...just wrap the pot in several layers of aliminum foil....


Cheap, insulation, cheap...

The energy in the heating element is more than enough..the problem you are facing is the LOSS of energy..

You need to capture that loss...

Sorry I am drukn:drunk::drunk:

heat is what it is..


you get out what you put in....less the loss via ...loss


think of heat and energy like cup full of water with holes in it...the more holes you can plug...the better off you are:rockin:


Plug the holes, you get what you put in!!!!

Leave the holes leaking...you lose:mad:
 
Do a search for "heatstick", build yourself one of those to help get that volume of water up to temps on your stove. Not nearly as elegant as a larger element mounted in your pot, but much easier.
 
jigidyjim said:
I still ended up having to top off slightly under 1/2 gal, and I think that messed up my O.G. reading, which came out really light (1.042 vs expected of 1.048). I started with 6 gal water, after adding 6 2/3 lbs LME it read just under 7 gal, and at the end it looked to be close to 5 gal, but after leaving the solids behind, I still had to top off.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing this was a 60 minute boil. I don't think that you can loose 2 gallons in 60 minutes and not have an adequate boil. Check your thermometer and adjust for altitude. Should be fine!
 
Maybe some of you experts can help me on this. Doing a full boil with an extract recipe has nothing to do with the extract, but the hops, right? So is it really necessary to have a vigorous, rolling boil to extract the alpha acids from the hops? Especially if you are doing a late addition of you LME or DME.
 
I don't think anything is necessary, but I do think it helps out with the flavor of the beer. Just like with cooking there are a million different ways to do things, and everyone has their own methods/opinions. I just happen to be of the opinion that MY beer tastes better with a full boil. YMMV
 
How can you not have space OUTSIDE? You only need a few square feet.
 
Trevor57 said:
How can you not have space OUTSIDE? You only need a few square feet.
Click to expand...

well, lets see: neighborhood covenants and apartments that don't allow outdoor cooking are the first things that come to mind.

My encouragement to the OP is to wait until you TASTE this brew.... I would lay money you will keep working on full boils at that time. I remember my first full volume boil was actually a split boil across 2 pots. The hops flavor was much more complex (like a commercial brew). I was blown away how I tasted things like grapefruit for the first time!

It was that AHA! moment that encouraged me to keep struggling with tweaking my system. I am now boiling on a propane burner, but am planning an electric brewery for inside brewing.

Keep at it!
 
Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Though part of the concern is just the weight. The fact that I saw flames sort of oozing out from under the pot was a pretty weird sight - again I'm not sure why this was happening, but I think it's because the pot was pushing down against the uhhhh pot-stand(?) so hard that there was less room for the flames to exist, so they started shooting out sideways. So I had to turn the heat down just cuz of that.

Anyway, I'll think about wrapping it with some sort of shield next time, though I definitely need a flame-proof one, and I want a solution that I can easily take on/off when washing the kettle.
 
There are obviously better insulators than Aluminum Foil but anything that adds mass to the pot will help.
 
chefmike said:
well, lets see: neighborhood covenants and apartments that don't allow outdoor cooking are the first things that come to mind.
Click to expand...
I believe finding somewhere else to live would be close to top priority for me. Cooking outside WHILE drinking a homebrew has to be one of the best things in life...
 
I'm not sure about "no room outside" part.

However, there are some real logistical issues there.

1. Cooling your wort. Unless you happen to have a spigot out side or a long hose.

2. Moving a large pot of boiling water around is heavy.

So even a turkey frier has its own issues.

I know I brew AG in a tiny apartment.

The heat sticks require a 20 amp circuit of their own from what I've read.

I know in my case most of the logistical issues were solved by having an assistant brewer.
 
Regarding why I can't/won't brew outside: I don't have a backyard. I could brew out on the sidewalk I suppose but I'm not sure that would be legal. There is a spot on the side I could setup to brew, but I'd have to carry water up and down stairs and even though I know I can do it, it's not something I'd look forward to at all. So until my next house (which will have a brewing area outside, a place in the garage for lager fridge, and an inside room for a kegerator with 3 taps, oh, I guess a bedroom or two would be optional), I'm content with brewing inside.
 
mparmer said:
I believe finding somewhere else to live would be close to top priority for me. Cooking outside WHILE drinking a homebrew has to be one of the best things in life...
Click to expand...

:rockin:

no doubt. doing anything outside with a homebrew... I live in heaven in that regard... right down the road from you in Jasper.
 
Jigidyjim-
of course you can continue with partial boils. And kits designed for parital boils are fine. When you decide to make your own recipes, remember that hop utilization will be an issue - the hop's alpha acids only get dispersed in the water you boil and then diluted with your top-off water, so you'll have to adjust your hop usage upward.

Also, if you decide to do the aluminum foil wrap and keep the flame on - the heavy pot on the stove is an issue. For that one, get an immersion chiller, cool that wort down where it sits, then autosiphon it into your fermenter. No heavy lifting from that high. (of course moving a fermenter isn't always easy, but you're starting from a lower position).
good luck!
 
Hang Glider said:
Jigidyjim-
of course you can continue with partial boils. And kits designed for parital boils are fine. When you decide to make your own recipes, remember that hop utilization will be an issue - the hop's alpha acids only get dispersed in the water you boil and then diluted with your top-off water, so you'll have to adjust your hop usage upward.
Click to expand...

I am wondering about this. I have been adjusting my hops a bit to compensate for partial boils, but the book "Brewing Classic Styles" says that the hops stay the same for partial boils. The wording is even suggesting that you should be excited about this. It also has you doing a 50% dme addition at the begining and 50% at 15 minutes left, which I have been doing. I wonder if this is why.:off:
 
hop utilization

I am certainly no scientist nor expert, but that seems to be the general concensus - do a search in the forum on partial boil hop utilization and you'll get several hits. The link above has a good explanation.

As far as the partial extract additions - that serves to lighten the color up a bit and reduce caramelization - adding all the extract at the beginning 'cooks' it, and it gets darker.
 
Thanks for the link. That is helpful, I have been wondering why my hops seem to dissapear in the beer. I really need a full boil.
 
WIP said:
I am wondering about this. I have been adjusting my hops a bit to compensate for partial boils, but the book "Brewing Classic Styles" says that the hops stay the same for partial boils. The wording is even suggesting that you should be excited about this. It also has you doing a 50% dme addition at the begining and 50% at 15 minutes left, which I have been doing. I wonder if this is why.:off:
Click to expand...

Yes, doing a late addition of the extract fairly closely approximates a full boil.

So, if you can't do a full boil, doing a partial boil and adding the majority of the extract at the end of the boil gives you pretty darn close to the same results.

You can do most of the extract at flame out, as long as you take the better hops utilization into account.
 

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