Your Black IPA/Cascadian Dark Ale input

I want to know who thinks they have the best black IPA/Cascadian Dark Ale (whatever you want to call it) recipe or key recipe input. Is it one you've formulated, tweaked form a commercial recipe or purchased from an online vendor? I brewed one a while back that was pretty tasty, but lacked the malt complexity I was hoping for. Please share your experiences and recipe ideas. I plan to brew another very soon and want to see what you guys have come up with as a favorite. All ideas and input are very welcome. Complexity in flavor is obviously a must!

For commercial reference, my favs are Stone's Sublimely Self-Righteous and Deschutes Hop In The Dark.

Excited to hear your feedback!

+1 on the Sublimely.

I just brewed one and it should be ready to go sometime next week but upon taste testing between transfers I found it pretty nice. I agree though it is hard to reach that balance between a nice and balanced roasted malt flavor and still have an aggressive hop profile. Pretty sure my BiPa will be very light on the roast but hopefully once carbonated it will pick up.

What did you use for your malt bill?

Grand Teton's Trout Hop Black IPA would be worth cloning. I loved the bottle I had.

I love the Stone Sublimely, its one of my favorite beers. That being said, I recently brewed a batch of AHS's Black Imperial Rye IPA and I like it better. I (as well as a few of my friends) think its better than any commercial example I've had. I know it has the Imperial and Rye part added in and that might not be what you're looking for, but the rye flavors are very subtle and it only came out to like 7.2%, so its not that big. It is very complex and shockingly balanced for having a half pound of high AA hops.

I did a sublimely clone (mainly grist bill) last month but did about 1.5 times the hops and used F.F and Amarillo as flavoring and dry hop. Turned out very good.

Not my cup of tea. I believe this style went 'over the top' for me given my Sublimely experience. I might try to fuse a Schwarzbier and hop bomb to get the bitterness in check as an experiment but found the Sublimely to harsh for my Pliny loving pallet to enjoy...

Double Arrogant Bastard is the pinnacle for me.

I mad a TRUE dark beer/hopbomb, and it tasted like rocket fuel. (not any off flavor, it just had too much going on.

Just making an IPA "black" for the novelty is fine, but if you aren't adding chocolate, or black patent, or roasted, why not just get some black food coloring and a solid IIPA recipe?

Well on mine I was basically going for a trick of the senses. I used Carafa III de bittered in a small amount and didn't add it till about 5 minutes left in the mash. So, mainly it was just for color. There is a small amount of dark malt flavor but mainly it is what the name describes. A black IPA

crlova2 said:

Well on mine I was basically going for a trick of the senses. I used Carafa III de bittered in a small amount and didn't add it till about 5 minutes left in the mash. So, mainly it was just for color. There is a small amount of dark malt flavor but mainly it is what the name describes. A black IPA

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Exactly! Why not just drink an IPA with blinders on? Or use black food coloring.

I am OK with green beer for ST patties, or Orange beer when syracuse goes to the final four, but black beer just for the hell of it?

(Maybe on Martin Luther King Day.KIDDING)

Sorry fellas, but making a black Wit with some de-bittered black and calling it a new style is RETARDED.

Here were the specialty malts I used. It definitely could have used some more beef in the roast department. Possibly a higher lovibond crystal. I don't think I would care for chocolate malts in the mix, however.

1.5 lbs 2-Row Caramel Malt 10L; Briess
0.75 lbs Weyermann Carafa® II;
0.5 lbs Roasted Barley; Pauls Malt

I made the Northern Brewer Black IPA Extract Kit a couple months ago and it's the best beer I've ever brewed. OK, well I'm still a noob - it's my 4th batch. I was a little scared after I dry hopped it as my previous "green" samples were great. After I added that last addition, it was a bit too bold, but now that it's been in the keg for a few more weeks its mellowed out and I'm thrilled with it!

People who think this style as just an ipa that's black apparently haven't had a good representation of the style.
There is going to be some amount of roast if only minute. It's the getting the balance of roast were the difficulty arises. There are many techniques to do this. As to which works best I cannot say as of yet.
I have done two both with carafa 2 one which I mashed the entire 60. It was good but Mabe too roasty. The last one I tried with c2 in the last 20...it didn't quite impart the color I wanted so I did a 90 and it still came out a bit too brownish. Good luck I will probably try it again sometime soon maybe with a steeping technique.

Here's mine:
5lb 2-row
12oz white wheat
12oz carafa 2
8oz caramel 40L
3lbs Briess pilsen DME

1.5oz nugget @ 60 12.0%
.5oz simcoe @ 30 14.1%
.5oz amarillo @ 30 10.1%
.5oz simcoe @ 10
.5oz amarillo @ 10
.5oz simcoe @ 0
.25oz citra @ 0 14.3 (all leaf)

Tried and True! Take from it wut like and it will give back to you!

does carafa 2 add that much "black"?

I brewed up the DOZE Black IPA AG kit from MoreBeer.com about 6 weeks ago.. it spent a month in the fermenter, I dry hopped it for a week, and even after only a week in the bottle, it is GOOOOOOOD.

I don't remember the recipe, right off the top of my head. I'll have to dig through my files the next time I'm in the basement, if anyone is interested.

cheezydemon3 said:

Exactly! Why not just drink an IPA with blinders on? Or use black food coloring.

I am OK with green beer for ST patties, or Orange beer when syracuse goes to the final four, but black beer just for the hell of it?

(Maybe on Martin Luther King Day.KIDDING)

Sorry fellas, but making a black Wit with some de-bittered black and calling it a new style is RETARDED.

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I never said I was trying to call it a new style or make a new style. I just wanted to do something different for a change.. I don't see why you have such a problem with what someone else wants to do with their own homebrew. I guess you missed the fact that I said there was a little dark malt flavor as well so no it wouldn't be the same as "putting blinders on" while drinking a normal IPA. I like sublimely self righteous but wanted something hoppier so that is what I made. Don't see how that is so "RETARDED."

All I can say to the haters and doubters.. try one. It's not an IPA with black food coloring in it... it's something completely different.. and better than an IPA, IMHO.

Of course, I greatly dislike IPAs, so there ya go.

redshift said:

I made the Northern Brewer Black IPA Extract Kit a couple months ago and it's the best beer I've ever brewed. OK, well I'm still a noob - it's my 4th batch. I was a little scared after I dry hopped it as my previous "green" samples were great. After I added that last addition, it was a bit too bold, but now that it's been in the keg for a few more weeks its mellowed out and I'm thrilled with it!

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I'm brewing this kit tomorrow. It will be only my third batch and my first with liquid yeast, a yeast starter and dry hopping. Glad to here yours is comming along so well. I can't wait to get started.

I'd agree with what others have said about this not being just an IPA with coloring. I'm thinking that anyone who's saying that hasn't tried one or hasn't had a good one at least. I think alot of the doubters get caught up in the naming issue. IMO a good BIPA has a roasty malt flavor you would never find in a traditional IPA.

I'm not hating, just said it wasn't my cup of tea. I like hoppy beers and I like stouts. The combination / fusion of the two just didn't work for me when I tried Stone Sublimely - and I'm a HUGE Stone fan with AB and their IPA in my top 5 Favorites. Maybe that's not a good representation of the style- if not, tell me what is and I'll give it a shot.

The BIPA/CDA I made is more of a hopped up porter.. just saying..

If you can get it, try Otter Creek's Alpine Black IPA. I find that one to be fairly good representation.

I like Arrogant Bastard. I also like that it didn't require it's own "style", and seriously, Many of the "Cascadian Dark Ale" threads went "How do I make a black IPA that tastes just like this non-black IPA"

The answer? Food coloring.

Sorry to be a hater but I gots to keep it real (or some such crap).

It just seems a little contrived, but hey if you really are making a roasty, dark IPA isn't that just a hoppy stout?

Maybe I am missing it.

Isn't a stout just a porter with some roast in it?

Same difference.

Hence why I call "Black IPAs" "Cascadian Dark Ales". There's nothing IPA-ish about a CDA, other than an obscene amount of hops.

brewmcq said:

The BIPA/CDA I made is more of a hopped up porter.. just saying..

If you can get it, try Otter Creek's Alpine Black IPA. I find that one to be fairly good representation.

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I've been on a huge alpine kick lately-i'm gonna have to find this now

the_trout said:

I'm brewing this kit tomorrow. It will be only my third batch and my first with liquid yeast, a yeast starter and dry hopping. Glad to here yours is comming along so well. I can't wait to get started.

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I brewed that awhile back and I had such good feed back from my buddies over it I had to brew it a second time. It's a good beer

The thing with the American Dark Ale (isn't that now the politically correct term?) is that it ranges from literally an IPA in every sense of the word that is colored black to a hoppy porter. I think they are great beers throughout the range of possibilities, but also hope that it won't be artificially "fenced" into style guidelines very soon - it's too new for that, and still evolving.

Hoppy porters, OK, black IPA's, OK.

Once again, I shall call mine the Darkly Hopped Kentucky Ale.

But it's not a hoppy porter. I don't feel like posting my recipe, it's Widmer's Pitch Black recipe which I was sad to see was not mentioned at all in this thread. Carafa and a tiny amount of special roast are what set it apart from the majority of IPA recipes.

If you're making a hoppy porter and calling it a black IPA, you're missing the point. If you're making a black-colored IPA and calling it a black IPA, you're missing the point. That's just my opinion, though. Brew whatever you want.

Well thought out post Rexbanner.

I am intrigued (finally)

rexbanner said:

But it's not a hoppy porter. I don't feel like posting my recipe, it's Widmer's Pitch Black recipe which I was sad to see was not mentioned at all in this thread. Carafa and a tiny amount of special roast are what set it apart from the majority of IPA recipes.

If you're making a hoppy porter and calling it a black IPA, you're missing the point. If you're making a black-colored IPA and calling it a black IPA, you're missing the point. That's just my opinion, though. Brew whatever you want.

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I just tried the Widmer's Pitch Black last night and I agree it's an excellent representaion of the BIPA/CDA/ABA/whatever you want to call it. Anyone on the fence about this style should try one of these. Regardless of the name it's an outstanding beer IMO.

Tried 21st Amendment's Back in Black around Christmas. Good stuff. Their web site tells us Pale + C-45 + Munich + De-Bittered Black. I would tinker around with these ingredients and shoot for 60-75 IBU range with C style hops.

the_trout said:

I just tried the Widmer's Pitch Black last night and I agree it's an excellent representaion of the BIPA/CDA/ABA/KDHA, whatever you want to call it. Anyone on the fence about this style should try one of these. Regardless of the name it's an outstanding beer IMO.

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Fixed

actually I thought your consideration of all 3 names was slightly awesomely funny in itself, showing no bias whatsoever. Nice!

I accept rexbanners take on the style, sorry to have been a hater.Please see earlier posts.

I'm calling mine the Black India that C-Hopped, aka the ***** :rockin:

bdeck02 said:

I want to know who thinks they have the best black IPA/Cascadian Dark Ale (whatever you want to call it) recipe or key recipe input. Is it one you've formulated, tweaked form a commercial recipe or purchased from an online vendor? I brewed one a while back that was pretty tasty, but lacked the malt complexity I was hoping for. Please share your experiences and recipe ideas. I plan to brew another very soon and want to see what you guys have come up with as a favorite. All ideas and input are very welcome. Complexity in flavor is obviously a must!

For commercial reference, my favs are Stone's Sublimely Self-Righteous and Deschutes Hop In The Dark.

Excited to hear your feedback!

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This is my fav by far, it came out VERY balanced. This was one of those beers that after the first drink i thought to myself "sometimes I even impress myself!" It was just sooo good!

Black Bomb
Cascadian Dark Ale


Type: All Grain
Boil Size: 8.00 gal
Batch Size:5.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 48.28 %
2.00 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 13.79 %
2.00 lb Oats, Malted (1.0 SRM) Grain 13.79 %
2.00 lb Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 13.79 %
1.00 lb Caramel Malt - 80L 6-Row (Briess) (80.0 SRM) Grain 6.90 %
0.50 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 3.45 %
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] (30 min) Hops 22.7 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] (20 min) Hops 25.3 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (10 min) Hops 16.4 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.078 SG

Est Final Gravity: 1.022 SG

Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.43 %

Bitterness: 68.2 IBU

Est Color: 33.3 SRM


Mash Profile


Double Infusion, Medium Body

30 min Protein Rest Add 13.05 qt of water at 132.1 F 122.0 F
30 min Saccrification Add 11.60 qt of water at 197.3 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 10.15 qt of water at 205.6 F 168.0 F

the_trout said:

I'm calling mine the Black India that C-Hopped, aka the ***** :rockin:

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Got my vote!

Vance71975 said:

This is my fav by far, it came out VERY balanced. This was one of those beers that after the first drink i thought to myself "sometimes I even impress myself!" It was just sooo good!

Black Bomb
*****


Type: All Grain
Boil Size: 8.00 gal
Batch Size:5.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 48.28 %
2.00 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 13.79 %
2.00 lb Oats, Malted (1.0 SRM) Grain 13.79 %
2.00 lb Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 13.79 %
1.00 lb Caramel Malt - 80L 6-Row (Briess) (80.0 SRM) Grain 6.90 %
0.50 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 3.45 %
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] (30 min) Hops 22.7 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] (20 min) Hops 25.3 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (10 min) Hops 16.4 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.078 SG

Est Final Gravity: 1.022 SG

Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.43 %

Bitterness: 68.2 IBU

Est Color: 33.3 SRM


Mash Profile


Double Infusion, Medium Body

30 min Protein Rest Add 13.05 qt of water at 132.1 F 122.0 F
30 min Saccrification Add 11.60 qt of water at 197.3 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 10.15 qt of water at 205.6 F 168.0 F

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Just the recipe melted my face. Good work!, except I had to fix your "style".

cheezydemon3 said:

Got my vote!



Just the recipe melted my face. Good work!, except I had to fix your "style".

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lol glad you liked it and damn i missed that category in the list!

I WILL try that ***** recipe Vance, thanks for sharing with the class.

I went 90% 2 row, 5% each carafa iii (dehusked/special) and crystal 60 or 80. After a few batches I took the bittering charge down to 50 or so IBUs and then added a ton (3 ounces each of Amarillo and Simcoe) of flavor / aroma hops. I whirlpool but you can split them up at 15/10/5/0/however you normally do it. Then dry hop with at least an ounce of each. I pitched around 64 (I don't have my notes with me), kegged after 2 weeks, and dry hopped in the keg. It was really good, I was going for a slightly tamer SSR and it worked great. Stone's yeast is similar to wlp007, but US-05 will work fine. I mashed higher than I would for a normal IPA, 154 or 155.

I've never brewed one of these yet, but have been thinking about it for a while.

What occurred to me is that a lot of dark grains like roasted barley and black patent add a distinct bitterness of their own, and it might be interesting to make a pretty bitter beer without even using an IPA level of hops. Haven't tried it, so not sure if it would work, but just a thought.

I had a friend talk me into adding a bit of pale chocolate into my Black IPA..... I might tell you..... DONT do it!

bschoenb said:

I had a friend talk me into adding a bit of pale chocolate into my Black IPA..... I might tell you..... DONT do it!

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Too much?

My DHG (dark hop grenade...not mine, someone else on here said it and I like it...) has .75lb carafaII and .25lb Choc. wheat as well as .75lb crystal 60. I mashed for the full mash (70min I think). It looked and smelled beautiful but I have not tasted it yet. I'm not going to worry...