Historical Beer: Kentucky Common "Kiss Yer Cousin" Rye Kentucky Common Ale

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Ok, I tasted the final beer and l like it very much. I might go a bit lower on the hops next time. I used 4 year old hops, sealed and flushed and properly stored, so I added a bit more as I thought the alphas went down over time, but it looks like they didn't. Tastes now like about 25-30ibus, which is fine but I think I would enjoy it more around 15-20 ibus.

But that's my fault. Overall I am impressed how much taste this beer has, given the fact that there is no late hop addition and a very clean yeast used.

It almost tastes a bit British to me, that might be the combination of corn, rye and daaaaark Crystal, mimicking British style esthers.

I might have to do a taste test with a simple pale ale smash type beer with rye additions and another with corn, to really figure out what flavour they each add individually.


Anyhow, great and unusual beer, thanks for sharing!
 
Miraculix said:
Ok, I tasted the final beer and l like it very much. I might go a bit lower on the hops next time. I used 4 year old hops, sealed and flushed and properly stored, so I added a bit more as I thought the alphas went down over time, but it looks like they didn't. Tastes now like about 25-30ibus, which is fine but I think I would enjoy it more around 15-20 ibus.
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Funny you should mention the aged hop IBU thing... we were just talking about this on AHA forum this morning...

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=31457.msg408543#msg408543
 
dmtaylor said:
Funny you should mention the aged hop IBU thing... we were just talking about this on AHA forum this morning...

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=31457.msg408543#msg408543
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Actually, my hops were even five years old.

I did not recognize a lot of this "freshly opened hop bag" smell when opening the pack so some aroma might got lost, but the pure ibus were definitely not down much.

Reading what the other guys wrote in your link, I would say I agree.there is not much ibu loss over time, at least not when sealed and frozen.

.... Actually I do not even know if my hops were frozen all the time, as they were handled by the shop and not by me, the majority of the time.
 
On another note, I was looking into bjcp guidelines and wiki regarding the listed ingredients for the Kentucky common style. Non of them seem to list rye as a typical ingredient. Why?
 
Miraculix said:
On another note, I was looking into bjcp guidelines and wiki regarding the listed ingredients for the Kentucky common style. Non of them seem to list rye as a typical ingredient. Why?
Click to expand...

I don't believe rye was a typical ingredient, based on things I have read. But, none of us were alive 100 years ago to know for sure either.
 
I agree. Next time l might skip the rye, just to see how it tastes without it. Flaked barley instead to give the nice head :)

When I drink the rye version though, I have the instant urge to bring some oak flavour in. I never had a beer that I imagined to work that well with oak barrel flavour.

I will open a bottle, add some toasted oak chips and taste it after a few days to see where we would be going with that...
 
I'd like to try this as a steam beer.

Is 68 F too warm?

My cooling fermentation chamber is currently lagering near freezing so I am bound by the nearly constant 68 F of my basement.

Which would be the best lager yeast to use? The ones I have easy access to are: Wyeast 2112, Saflager S-23, Saflager W-34/70

If it's too warm for a steam beer, I'll use US-05.

tx.
 
I found that one corner of my basement was still 61F so I went ahead and used 2112 for a batch over the weekend. Fermentation was well underway in 12 hours.

Curious how it is going to turn out because at the 24 hour mark had crazy bubbler activity and the outside temp of the bucket was 67 F. Next day it was down to 64 F and today it is 63 F.
 
Revvy said:
It is heavily inspired by O'Daniel's research into the style and his original recipe- O'Daniel's Kentucky Common 1902, conversations with him via pm, and my own research.
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I traded PM's and even bottle swapped with O'Daniel on his Common recipe, hate that the original thread is gone. I was fond of the 24hr mash for mine. It added a HINT of sour. It was a flavor contribution that everyone could perceive, but couldn't quite tell you what it was. I'll have to go through my notes and see what I have for this brew.
 
Completely overshot my numbers when brewing this. Estimated 75% and ended up at 85%. The result was 6.7% ABV.

Was a little harsh just after kegging but now that it has aged for a few weeks it is really smooth. Dangerously so.

I kept hitting the tap as I brewed a Zombie Dust clone today which is probably why I forgot to add the yeast nutrient.

hJ4gGVC.jpg
 
I've been watching this thread for a couple of years. Think my next brew will be a Kentucky Common (no rye tho', I'll use corn grits for all the adjunct) I did a small cereal mash 2 weeks ago using wheat flour and it was much easier than I expected, so I'm not so intimidated by having to cook several pounds of grits.

Have y'all decided what yeast works the best? English or German ale yeast? I also have a couple of pack of dry lager yeast, and a corner of my basement is in the 50's right now.
 
b-boy said:
Any reason you want to exclude the rye? Without the rye, it won't be the same beer at all.
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I know it won't be the same beer. I just wondered if there was a consensus on what yeast to use for Ky Common beers in general. I'm leaning towards either a Kolsch yeast, Nottingham, or S-04.
 
z-bob said:
I know it won't be the same beer. I just wondered if there was a consensus on what yeast to use for Ky Common beers in general. I'm leaning towards either a Kolsch yeast, Nottingham, or S-04.
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Has to be a fast fermenting ale yeast. I use Notty and suggest it's most authentic. This is no German style. Maybe S-04, but I haven't seen this beer described as being too distinctive when it comes to yeast, and Notty I think is cleaner than S-04.
 
I found a small bag of rye flour in the pantry, and it doesn't smell rancid or stale (it doesn't smell like anything.) So I think I'm going to brew the recipe at the top of the thread afterall. Here's my recipe, adjusted for 4 gallons instead of 5 and doing a cereal mash instead of using flaked grains.
HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Kiss Revvy's Cousin ;)
Style Name: Kentucky Common (with Rye)
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 4 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.036
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

Original Gravity: 1.045
Final Gravity: 1.009
ABV (standard): 4.64%
IBU (tinseth): 24.31
SRM (morey): 12.68
Mash pH: 5.58

3.75 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (57.7%)
28 oz - Grits (26.9%)
12 oz - Rye Flour (11.5%)
2 oz - United Kingdom - Black Patent (1.9%)
2 oz - Belgian - Special B (1.9%)

HOPS:
0.75 oz - Cluster, Type: Pellet, AA: 6, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 24.31

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 4 gal
2) Sparge, Temp: 120 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 8 qt

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
350 ml - lactic acid, 1.5%, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Danstar - Nottingham Ale Yeast
Starter: No
Fermentation Temp: 65 F

NOTES:
Recipe source: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/kiss-yer-cousin-rye-kentucky-common-ale.290419/
I scaled it down to 4 gallons and substituted corn grits and rye flour for the flaked grains. The grits and flour will have to be cooked before mashing.
I will be using sour mash (Sauergut) to acidify the mash; that's the 1.5% lactic acid. I haven't actually titrated it, but if it's anywhere between 1% and 2% acid it should be okay.
Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/
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It's boiling now. I used masa harina tamale flour for the grits (or flaked corn) and rye flour for the flaked rye, and did a cereal mash. If I brew this beer again, I will do a full volume mash instead of a dunk sparge -- or add my sparge water a half-hour into the mash. The BIAB bag drained amazingly slow with all that flour, then I had to drain it again after the sparge.

The wort looks good and smells good. My Cluster hops are higher AA than I thought so I'll need to adjust that a little, but it's been a good brew day! (the day is not over yet)
 
Did a 10 gallon batch yesterday, pitched US05 in one, s-23 lager yeast in the other, steam beer style.
I also did a bit of a partigyle and used the 2nd runnings (1st batch sparge) for a rye pale ale... thing. Will be dry hopped with a bunch of Citra, 2-3oz for the 3 gallons. I find I like the Citra/rye combo.
 
SirHC_ said:
Did a 10 gallon batch yesterday, pitched US05 in one, s-23 lager yeast in the other, steam beer style.
I also did a bit of a partigyle and used the 2nd runnings (1st batch sparge) for a rye pale ale... thing. Will be dry hopped with a bunch of Citra, 2-3oz for the 3 gallons. I find I like the Citra/rye combo.
Click to expand...
How did the two turn out? Did you find you liked the steam beer over the ale more?
What have people been fermenting the steam versions at? . . ~64? Sorry for all the questions. Want to make this soon and trying to figure ale or lager or both ;)
 
Bier1080 said:
How did the two turn out? Did you find you liked the steam beer over the ale more?
What have people been fermenting the steam versions at? . . ~64? Sorry for all the questions. Want to make this soon and trying to figure ale or lager or both ;)
Click to expand...
Hard to tell so far, just packaged them up yesterday...
Same OG (1044) and FG(1008), fermented at basement ambient temperature. Basement is 64 so fermentation was around 67 I'd guess. Left them sitting on the cold cement basement floor to help the temps stay low. They certainly smelled different at bottling but won't really know for 2 weeks! Try both and decide for yourself, that's what I did!
 
I bottled mine 2 weeks ago. It's carbonating *very* slowly, according to the firmness of the two plastic bottles. (bottles are stored on the basement steps, probably a little too cold.) I will open one at 3 weeks whether it's ready or not. When I tasted it at bottling time, it was kinda watery and had very little hops flavor. I'm hoping a little fizz takes care of that.
 
I opened another bottle today. It's still flat (I think I got a batch of bad bottle caps) but I can taste the rye now. I like it! Going to put one of my plastic twist-off cap bottles in the fridge. I know they are carbonated; the bottles are hard. (they are bigger bottles is why I didn't open them first)
 
I've done this recipes for 50+ gallons, adjusted the ABV from 3.5% to 6.0%. HAve used grits since I've moved to Florida. I really like it in the 5-5.5ABV range using a bigger pitch of US-05 for 5 gal (1.5 packets per 5 gal). I love rye (love me rye whiskey/bourbon) and this recipe also appeals to my "non-craft beer" friends. Yeungling is big around here and this goes over better than the Yeungling.
 
Hmm, mine are also under carbed after 2 weeks though not by much. I agree they have much more flavor carbed and chilled than the hydrometer sample. Very tasty, a good bitter bite that lingers a touch. Not much caramel. Definite rye.
Mines just a touch sour, I did an overnight mash (~14hrs) before I drained the first runnings. Ill try again in a week when they will hopefully be fully carbed.
 

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SirHC_ said:
Hmm, mine are also under carbed after 2 weeks though not by much. I agree they have much more flavor carbed and chilled than the hydrometer sample. Very tasty, a good bitter bite that lingers a touch. Not much caramel. Definite rye.
Mines just a touch sour, I did an overnight mash (~14hrs) before I drained the first runnings. Ill try again in a week when they will hopefully be fully carbed.
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I opened my plastic bottle tonight and it was undercarbed after over 3 weeks! It did have some carbonation... I wonder, with all that corn in the grist if it could use some yeast nutrients? I will try that next time.
 
Windsor on the left, s-23 on the right.
Both are 12oz pours, neither have much head retention. Nice and foamy at first but quickly dissipates to almost nada.
For all their similarities they do taste different.
Both are rye up front and a little sweet. The steam beer tastes a bit maltier/smoother to me whereas the windsor batch is a little "sharper" on the ttongue.Theres not much difference in flavor profile like you'd expect in a steam beer. Perhaps that is concealed by the rye spice.
I'll be interested to see how they compare in 3 weeks. So far, I don't have a clear preference.
As always, YMMV.
@Bier1080
 

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Awesome, SirHC!! Thanks for the update! They both sound good. I plan on brewing the KC this weekend. Think I'll do 4 gallons with 05 and save a gallon for a small 34/70 slurry I have. Looking forward to it!
 
I've had this kegged for about two weeks now. Definitely smooth and tasty! Had a busy day and only did 05 for yeast. Next time will try 34/70. Thanks Revvy!
 
I plan on brewing a small batch of this weekend in during my Vienna Lager mash. Busy day but will be a good way to use a big yeast cake from a dopple.
 
And a month later I'm out of the windsor batch to compare...oops. the steam beer is still quite good, has gotten a little less smooth, I think, and a little less sweet. Tasting more like anchor steam plus rye.
I've mostly had them at fresh from the fridge temp but the bottles I let sit awhile before opening (backyard gathering, hence the lack of Windsor batch) had a more robust temperature. Not surprising but I e cold is Def NOT the desired temp for this beer. I'd guess 45° has been a good target temp. Just leave the bottle on the counter for 15 minutes before opening.
In summary, I think I prefer the steam version overall. The yeast adds just a bit more character that I appreciate on a warm evening on the deck.
Good luck!
 
Fascinating thread, and I'm excited to try a version of this. I picked up the following grain bill from my LHBS:

4.5lb pale malt 2-row
2lb malted rye
2oz black patent malt
2oz crystal/caramel 120L

The plan was to brew a 5 gallon batch. They didn't have flaked corn so I was going to just add corn sugar.

However, thanks to a lucky equipment loan, I can now brew it sooner as a 3 gallon batch rather than 5, so my plan is to use that grain bill and skip the sugar entirely. Is this a bad idea for any reason? I have been using BeerSmith for all of an hour now and it doesn't seem unreasonable there, but I might be doing it wrong.

The LHBS didn't have Cluster and suggested Magnum. 0.5oz at 60min and the other 0.5oz at 20min seems like it looks good.

Yeast: US-05. I don't have good temp control at the moment, but on an 80F day today the basement where I'll be fermenting hit 66F at max, so I think Us-05 should handle that OK. I might have a slightly better system (i.e. a bucket with water) by the time I brew.

Any comments or advice very welcome.
 
Ollie8000 said:
Fascinating thread, and I'm excited to try a version of this. I picked up the following grain bill from my LHBS:

4.5lb pale malt 2-row
2lb malted rye
2oz black patent malt
2oz crystal/caramel 120L

The plan was to brew a 5 gallon batch. They didn't have flaked corn so I was going to just add corn sugar.

However, thanks to a lucky equipment loan, I can now brew it sooner as a 3 gallon batch rather than 5, so my plan is to use that grain bill and skip the sugar entirely. Is this a bad idea for any reason? I have been using BeerSmith for all of an hour now and it doesn't seem unreasonable there, but I might be doing it wrong.

The LHBS didn't have Cluster and suggested Magnum. 0.5oz at 60min and the other 0.5oz at 20min seems like it looks good.

Yeast: US-05. I don't have good temp control at the moment, but on an 80F day today the basement where I'll be fermenting hit 66F at max, so I think Us-05 should handle that OK. I might have a slightly better system (i.e. a bucket with water) by the time I brew.

Any comments or advice very welcome.
Click to expand...

Corn sugar is not the same thing as flaked corn. But Corn Flakes breakfast cereal is really close (I've used it before.) For corn, I usually use cornmeal or grits or tamale masa flour, and cook it first. Breakfast cereal is already cooked, that's part of the appeal of using it.
 
Ollie8000 said:
Fascinating thread, and I'm excited to try a version of this. I picked up the following grain bill from my LHBS:

4.5lb pale malt 2-row
2lb malted rye
2oz black patent malt
2oz crystal/caramel 120L

The plan was to brew a 5 gallon batch. They didn't have flaked corn so I was going to just add corn sugar.
Click to expand...

Don't use corn sugar expecting it to be a suitable substitute for flaked corn/maize. Order it online if your LHBS doesn't have it and wait to brew until it arrives.
 
I recall Jamil on one of the brew strong shows say that flaked corn(and other flaked products) does not have as long of a shelf life as whole grains and to try find fresh stuff.
 
Thanks folks, good info.

The correct thing to do is probably to wait. However, I've recently returned to homebrewing which alters my perspective a little. My top two priorities are to fill the pipeline with drinkable beer and to practise and refine my technique.

The unexpected access to a bit more kit means that I can brew a 3 gallon batch of something, provided I have it on hand. I can get to the LHBS (which is not very L) before I get left with idle equipment again, but not soon enough to deliberately design a 3 gallon batch from scratch.

Scaling down my plans for a 5 gallon batch of this beer seems like the best route. This means abandoning my plans to replace the flaked corn with sugar and just leaving it out entirely, using the ready-milled grain bill I have as all of the fermentables.

On reflection, this is probably a different beer at this point rather than a variation on the thread's main recipe. Still, I plan to give it a shot tomorrow (and certainly welcome further advice).
 
Are you doing BIAB? That's a lot of rye for a traditional sparge but will work with BIAB. Rye is gummy. Also, the corn is there to reduce the protein as well as provide fermentables. (corn sugar will do that too, but it won't taste the same.) Try an 18 oz box of Aldi's corn flakes cereal for the corn. If I recall correctly, it's considerably less than $2. There's other stuff in there besides corn, but it's mostly a little bit of sugar and some vitamins.

The recipe you posted should taste good, but I think it will be hard to brew and will be a bit cloudy instead of clear when it's finished.
 

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