Secondary Fermenter

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Jdb2012

Member
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
17
Reaction score
1
Location
Vista
I have two 6.5 gallon carboys. Is it ok to use a 6.5 gallon carboy as the secondary? I was told that the oxygen from that much air space could make my beer taste like "cardboard" and that I should use a 5 gallon carboy. Is this true? I will be dry hopping in the second.
Thanks in advance!
 
I also have two 6.5 gallon carboys that I use for both primary and secondary. Personally, I have not tasted or noticed any off flavors in any of my brews. I'd imagine the oxygen gets purged fairly quickly depending on when you rack to secondary, but at the same time eliminating as much of the head space as possible couldn't be a bad idea.
 
It should be fine. CO2 coming out of solution will help fill the head-space. If really concerned, boil up a couple of ounces of sugar and add it to the secondary for the yeast to work on and create CO2.

I do use secondaries, but I have some specific reasons for doing it. Why are you wanting to use a secondary?

Your friend is correct, oxidation will cause a beer to stale quickly. If you plan to drink it within a couple of months, you probably wouldn't notice any effect if it happened.
 
I have used a secondary because I have been told that I could get some off flavor from yeast if I leave the beer on the yeast cake for awhile. Also I was told that the final produce will be clearer.
I am interested in your reasons, if you don't mind sharing.
 
Autolysis is only really an issue over a much longer period of time. If you were doing a sour,a imperial stout, or something that was bulk aged for several months, you would want to get if off the cake and into a secondary. Almost all normal beers, with the exception of fruit beers, don't benefit from a secondary. I just let it sit in primary for 3 to 4 weeks, cold crash to clarify, and keg ( or bottle). Ive found that racking to a secondary creates much more o2 exposure. And the beer can mellow/condition/age in the bottles or keg
 
I have used a secondary because I have been told that I could get some off flavor from yeast if I leave the beer on the yeast cake for awhile. Also I was told that the final produce will be clearer.
I am interested in your reasons, if you don't mind sharing.

Both of those reasons for using a secondary aren't correct. You may certainly use a clearing vessel (it's not really a "secondary", it's a bright tank or a clearing tank) if you wish but there is no reason to worry about getting off flavors from the yeast. Also, nothing magical happens from moving the beer to make it clear faster- gravity clears the beer and not the act of moving it. It'll clear just as fast in one container as another.

In a brewery, there are a couple of vessels. The fermenter is where fermentation takes place, and then the finished beer is moved to the bright tank. The reason that happens is so another batch can be started in the fermenter, not because the beer will clear any faster in a different vessel.

It's true that you can get off-flavors from leaving the beer on the yeast cake too long- but that's many weeks or even months and not 10-14 days like most homebrewers typically do. Many homebrewers routinely leave their beer in the fermenter for a month with good results. I'm one to package the beer when it's been finished for a week or so and is clear, which is usually around day 10-14 for most beers. For lagers, I do use a carboy for the lagering period and remove the beer off of the yeast, though.

If I use a secondary at all (like for oaking or lagering), I would never use a 6.5 gallon carboy. The reason is that once fermentation is over, the co2 production ends as well. In the original vessel, the co2 that was produced during fermentation but still trapped by the airlock helps protect the beer from oxidation. But once fermentation is over, and the beer is moved, that 1.5 gallons of headspace is a risk since no new c02 is being produced to help mitigate that. If you feel that you must use a clearing vessel, make sure it's the proper size for a batch.
 
I have used a secondary because I have been told that I could get some off flavor from yeast if I leave the beer on the yeast cake for awhile. Also I was told that the final produce will be clearer.
I am interested in your reasons, if you don't mind sharing.

My beers rarely get into the bottle in less than 10 weeks (exception is hoppy ales). Secondary may still not be necessary for that time period. I have a lot in the pipe-line.

I do a lot of Belgians and Brett beers which I ferment at high temperatures (usually reaching mid 80s at the end). The higher temperature speeds up the decay of the yeast, so I don't want to condition the beer on the cake.

I also harvest yeast from almost every batch. The pressure (of the weight of the beer) on the yeast is damaging to the yeast, and harvesting it earlier (2 to 3 weeks vs 2 to 3 months) gives me much healthier yeast.

Autolysis is only really an issue over a much longer period of time. If you were doing a sour,a imperial stout, or something that was bulk aged for several months, you would want to get if off the cake and into a secondary.

My exception to doing a secondary is for sour beers. I will leave the beer on the cake for 12 months or more. The Brett feeds of the decaying sacc yeast.
 
Yooper said:
Both of those reasons for using a secondary aren't correct. You may certainly use a clearing vessel (it's not really a "secondary", it's a bright tank or a clearing tank) if you wish but there is no reason to worry about getting off flavors from the yeast. Also, nothing magical happens from moving the beer to make it clear faster- gravity clears the beer and not the act of moving it. It'll clear just as fast in one container as another.

In a brewery, there are a couple of vessels. The fermenter is where fermentation takes place, and then the finished beer is moved to the bright tank. The reason that happens is so another batch can be started in the fermenter, not because the beer will clear any faster in a different vessel.

It's true that you can get off-flavors from leaving the beer on the yeast cake too long- but that's many weeks or even months and not 10-14 days like most homebrewers typically do. Many homebrewers routinely leave their beer in the fermenter for a month with good results. I'm one to package the beer when it's been finished for a week or so and is clear, which is usually around day 10-14 for most beers. For lagers, I do use a carboy for the lagering period and remove the beer off of the yeast, though.

If I use a secondary at all (like for oaking or lagering), I would never use a 6.5 gallon carboy. The reason is that once fermentation is over, the co2 production ends as well. In the original vessel, the co2 that was produced during fermentation but still trapped by the airlock helps protect the beer from oxidation. But once fermentation is over, and the beer is moved, that 1.5 gallons of headspace is a risk since no new c02 is being produced to help mitigate that. If you feel that you must use a clearing vessel, make sure it's the proper size for a batch.

Nice post, thanks
 
Both of those reasons for using a secondary aren't correct. You may certainly use a clearing vessel (it's not really a "secondary", it's a bright tank or a clearing tank) if you wish but there is no reason to worry about getting off flavors from the yeast. Also, nothing magical happens from moving the beer to make it clear faster- gravity clears the beer and not the act of moving it. It'll clear just as fast in one container as another.

I think it depends a little bit on your precise beer.

The batch i made with 30% cooked brown basmati rice and kolsch yeast produced an amazing quantity of trub, and the krausen wasn't sinking after 2 weeks.

So yesterday i racked it to another carboy, where further sediment has fallen out of it, and then tomorrow I'll rack it to a keg, cold crash it, and fine it with gelatin.

I suspect that much of the sediment is a remnant of the rice that is small enough to get through a paint strainer bag.
 
Awesome! Thanks. It is good to know that I can leave a batch sitting in a primary for a months or 2 with out fear of off flavors!
 
I did my first brew (an IPA) and moved it into a carboy for secondary per the recipe. I then had to dry hop which was a mess getting the hops into the carboy. And then when I went to rack it from the carboy to my bottling bucket, it was a pain in the arse trying to keep the auto siphon from clogging up. :mad:

To make a long story short, I've read enough to make me feel comfortable in just leaving my beer go in the primary and I will be leaving my beers in the primary bucket for the most part, especially if there is dry hopping involved and limiting the use of my carboy as a secondary for beers that don't involve dry hopping.
 
sjanz said:
This is good info. When dry hopping in secondary, would a 6 gallon carboy be ok or would you move down to a 5 gallon?

Essentially you want as little head space as possible to avoid oxidation so if everything including the hops fits in the 5 use that
 
If one were to use a 6.5 gallon carboy, do you think that adding some sugar to create a small secondary fermentation would expel the excess O2?
 
I have used a secondary because I have been told that I could get some off flavor from yeast if I leave the beer on the yeast cake for awhile. Also I was told that the final produce will be clearer.
I am interested in your reasons, if you don't mind sharing.

The autolysis thing is much over exagerated. A wonderful classic white Burgundy yeast is Lallemand CY3079. This yeast is actually designed to autolys early in order to produce a nice round mouthfeel during sur lies aging (aging on the lees). While a buttery Chardonnay might be nice (diacetyl) we usually don't want that in beer but some autolysis benefits mouthfeel and I doubt you would ever leave your beer on the lees long enough for it to become detrimental.
 
If one were to use a 6.5 gallon carboy, do you think that adding some sugar to create a small secondary fermentation would expel the excess O2?

Yes, probably. Except remember that the point of a clearing vessel is to allow the beer some time to age and clear. By adding more fermentables, and restarting fermentation, the whole point of racking to a clearing vessel is totally useless. If the point is to allow the beer to finish clearing, then why add fermentables, and start fermentation again? Then you'd have to rack to a third clearing vessel, if indeed you were planning on a clearing vessel at all.

I'd either get a 5 gallon carboy, or forget the whole idea of racking to a clearing vessel.
 
Awesome! Thanks. It is good to know that I can leave a batch sitting in a primary for a months or 2 with out fear of off flavors!

This is true, no off flavors, but do keep in mind that sitting on the yeast for a longer time does influence the flavor. Many people like these flavors. Others prefer the results of beer moved off of the yeast for aging. Figure out which you like and do that.
 
Not sure how many you would need, but I've also heard of decreasing the headspace by boiling marbles to sanitize and adding to secondary. Some use the marbles to hold fruit down so they don't need to poke it down every few days.
It all sounds like alot of work to me either way. I'm lazy. I left a big Belgian on the yeast for 5 weeks with 3 days of cold crash in a 65 deg basement and it was clear as day. Weird fruity like a Belgian should be. :)
 
Back
Top