Polished All Stainless Ripple Heating Elements

orangehero · Oct 4, 2015

Check these out:
https://store.brewpi.com/stainless-steel-ripple-heating-element-5000w-5500w

Does anyone know if these polished, all-stainless steel, ripple elements are available from a US distributor?

BrunDog · Oct 4, 2015

Ya: http://www.ebrewsupply.com/stainless-elements/304-ss-5500w-ripple.html

-BD

augiedoggy · Oct 4, 2015

Im not positive but believe the dull ULWD elements are actually better for a boil kettle application. They are less likely to develop caramelization on the surface from what I've read.

I ordered an all stainless 4500w element from Kals site myself a couple weeks ago but I've gotten no notice that its shipped and no response back from my email to spike asking about it..They were backordered till about a week ago.

orangehero · Oct 19, 2015

Why do you think they would be more likely to develop surface caramelization?

If anything they are definitely easier to clean. The 304 stainless base is also slightly more corrosion resistant than what is used on the APCOM ones.

hvjackson · Oct 19, 2015

Bobby M has something similar 5500 watt element at Brew Hardware: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500_ripple.htm

Doesn't look like it's polished the same but he claims it's all stainless.

augiedoggy · Oct 19, 2015

orangehero said:
Why do you think they would be more likely to develop surface caramelization?

If anything they are definitely easier to clean. The 304 stainless base is also slightly more corrosion resistant than what is used on the APCOM ones.

I thought the limelife surface is supposed to prevent any type of buildup better than the polished ones.. basically whenever yousee a limelife suface it advertised as ULWD even if its demesions say otherwise. The surface is supposed to fight off any type of deposit buildup.

FuzzeWuzze · Oct 20, 2015

augiedoggy said:
I thought the limelife surface is supposed to prevent any type of buildup better than the polished ones.. basically whenever yousee a limelife suface it advertised as ULWD even if its demesions say otherwise. The surface is supposed to fight off any type of deposit buildup.

Maybe if your using it in an actual water heater where its submerged its entire life going for hours a day for 5-10+ years non stop holding 80+ gallons at like 120-140F...in a brew application where you use it maybe a dozen or two hours a month if you brew every day it probably doesn't matter.

FuzzeWuzze · Oct 20, 2015

hvjackson said:
Bobby M has something similar 5500 watt element at Brew Hardware: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500_ripple.htm

Doesn't look like it's polished the same but he claims it's all stainless.

The only thing that matters is that the base is stainless, which is what Bobby_M's are. Standard water heating elements arent expecting to ever see the air oxygen again once installed, so rust isnt that big of an issue..but for brewing where they are wet and dry constantly the base's rust something fierce if you arent careful to totally dry it off.

augiedoggy · Oct 20, 2015

FuzzeWuzze said:
Maybe if your using it in an actual water heater where its submerged its entire life going for hours a day for 5-10+ years non stop holding 80+ gallons at like 120-140F...in a brew application where you use it maybe a dozen or two hours a month if you brew every day it probably doesn't matter.

Still... if you compare the polished version to this one directly the limelife one should outperform and effectively act like a lower watt density element from what I,ve learned so far... sure either will work so will a lwd element you just have a larger chance of scorching... the limelife ones are also available with a 304 stainless base... thats what I now have. they are the same price as the polished looking ones.

since both of these elements are the same price I would (and did) take the limelife element.. I could be wrong about it having the performance edge here and after multiple cleanings my llast limelife element looked polished but like I said there has to be a reason they market the surface as ULWD even in a LWD sized element. and this would only be beneficial in this application. That is why I mentioned it. why deal with cleaning beerstone and carmelization if you dont have to?

augiedoggy · Oct 20, 2015

FuzzeWuzze said:
The only thing that matters is that the base is stainless, which is what Bobby_M's are. Standard water heating elements arent expecting to ever see the air oxygen again once installed, so rust isnt that big of an issue..but for brewing where they are wet and dry constantly the base's rust something fierce if you arent careful to totally dry it off.

dont forget the rust between the retainer nut and element... my base turned black and for the most part was rust free but when I removed the nut I found a lot of rust on the threads... this was over 2 1/2 years mind you but still... I decided it was time to upgrade.
I did find my new element from kal/spike it very easy to bend compared to my old one.

kal · Oct 23, 2015

There's lots of confusion between "shiny" stainless 304/316 elements and grey ULWD ones (Camco for example) which are actually 804 stainless. People think shiny is better but that's not the case.

The grey/charcoal heating rods on Camco's (for example) are made from the highest Grade Nickel and Chromium Incoloy (804 stainless steel) which is high temperature and corrosion resistant. It is essentially a mix of premium grade nickel and stainless steel. Incoloy is about 8 times more expensive, lighter, and more corrosion resistant than standard 304/316 stainless steel. Neither will rust.

Many of the shiny 304/316 stainless steel elements that are sold are not ULWD and not UL listed for use in the US and Canada either. They are considerably cheaper to buy from the various Chinese manufacturers that make them instead of from Camco (US based). (I get price lists from these Chinese manufacturers on a daily basis but have zero interest in them).

Example - like these Chinese ones here:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Ultra-Low-Watt-Density-5500w-Heating_60283488163.html

http://dgdetai.en.alibaba.com/produ..._China_Brewery_Heater_ULWD_5500W_Element.html

Kal

itsnotrequired · Oct 23, 2015

in my opinion, the 304/316 vs 804 element material issue isn't as critical as ensuring there is a stainless base. galvanized/nickle-plated steel bases will eventually rust. my father-in-law had some old unused 804 stainless elements lying around that he gave me but the bases are not stainless so i am going to get some new ones.

kal · Oct 23, 2015

itsnotrequired said:
in my opinion, the 304/316 vs 804 element material issue isn't as critical as ensuring there is a stainless base.

100% agreed.

For our use, what the elements sheaths themselves are made of isn't as critical as having a stainless base. You're more likely to have rust on the base than issues with the sheaths because of what they're made of.

I only mention the above because some people assume shiny=better when it's actually the opposite or (as you mention) it really doesn't matter.

That said, I'm still using my 'old' Camco 02963 non-SS base ones from 2008 without any issues.

(If I was re-buying today however, I'd definitely go with stainless base).

Good luck!

Kal

itsnotrequired · Oct 23, 2015

if you have a non-stainless base and treat it well, it should be okay. this means drying it off after rinsing, etc. but yeah, might as well go stainless if you can.

orangehero · Oct 23, 2015

Also interesting is that on the APCOM website (the manufacturer of Camco, etc. elements) they indicate the ripple shape is patented.

http://www.apcom-inc.com/products/heating-element

The all-stainless APCOM's base is also 400 series stainless.

Originally I was thinking shiny is better because they would be easier to clean.

augiedoggy said:
I thought the limelife surface is supposed to prevent any type of buildup better than the polished ones.. basically whenever yousee a limelife suface it advertised as ULWD even if its demesions say otherwise. The surface is supposed to fight off any type of deposit buildup.

Why do you think that? I only see that claim made from the product information with no details to explain or back it up. What exactly is a Limelife surface? They are better at preventing surface buildup compared to what? Polished all-stainless elements at equal power density? Polished 304 or polished Incoloy? A rough surface is going get more crud stuck on it than a smooth one.

augiedoggy · Oct 23, 2015

orangehero said:
Also interesting is that on the APCOM website (the manufacturer of Camco, etc. elements) they indicate the ripple shape is patented.

http://www.apcom-inc.com/products/heating-element

The all-stainless APCOM's base is also 400 series stainless.

Originally I was thinking shiny is better because they would be easier to clean.

Why do you think that? I only see that claim made from the product information with no details to explain or back it up. What exactly is a Limelife surface? They are better at preventing surface buildup compared to what? Polished all-stainless elements at equal power density? Polished 304 or polished Incoloy? A rough surface is going get more crud stuck on it than a smooth one.

good question... again I'm going by the way they advertise it and the fact that the "limelife" surface is advertised to fight off mineral buildup. their has to be a reason they always advertise them as ULWD despite the actual watt density per square inch...

It should be mentioned that apcoms elements are made in china too... at least some of them... camco is a huge distributor of apcoms elements but as far as I know they no longer make any of their own. They are just the largest reseller. others like Ace hardware also brand them as their own.

augiedoggy · Oct 23, 2015

kal said:
There's lots of confusion between "shiny" stainless 304/316 elements and grey ULWD ones (Camco for example) which are actually 804 stainless. People think shiny is better but that's not the case.

The grey/charcoal heating rods on Camco's (for example) are made from the highest Grade Nickel and Chromium Incoloy (804 stainless steel) which is high temperature and corrosion resistant. It is essentially a mix of premium grade nickel and stainless steel. Incoloy is about 8 times more expensive, lighter, and more corrosion resistant than standard 304/316 stainless steel. Neither will rust.

Many of the shiny 304/316 stainless steel elements that are sold are not ULWD and not UL listed for use in the US and Canada either. They are considerably cheaper to buy from the various Chinese manufacturers that make them instead of from Camco (US based). (I get price lists from these Chinese manufacturers on a daily basis but have zero interest in them).

Example - like these Chinese ones here:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Ultra-Low-Watt-Density-5500w-Heating_60283488163.html

http://dgdetai.en.alibaba.com/produ..._China_Brewery_Heater_ULWD_5500W_Element.html

Kal

The 4500w camco element I just bought from your site is certainly not the same element as the apcom one (also 804 stainless ripple) it replaced... Besides the different material for the base, the older one had a slightly different ripple shape and was made of a thicker stiffer rod material... These seemed to oemed from a different manufacturer.. It works great although it draws less than 18 amps which was slightly less power than the one it replaced. I am happy with the quality and price.

kal · Oct 23, 2015

augiedoggy said:
These seemed to oemed from a different manufacturer..

Yeah - not sure where CAMCO gets them from exactly.

Kal

augiedoggy · Oct 24, 2015

these work great in a HLT BTW and the lead free brass base wont rust... been using one for almost 2 years...the threads are 1" NPS
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200909059093?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Polished All Stainless Ripple Heating Elements

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