Nottingham yeast not fermenting

Hey guys, I'm sure this has been asked before but I figured I'd rely on the experts.
I got this fancy dancy brew bucket and FTSs on eBay for a sweet deal and I'm trying cider for the first time. It's a Graff and everything is exactly the same except I used some WhiteHouse and Musselmans cider from walmart.
I pitched last night and I don't even have a hint of fermentation. My worry is that I accidentally pitched it in too hot. The wort was about 85 ish when I pitched my hydrated yeast that I whipped up. Did I kill it or is there something else I'm missing. It didn't stay 85 long as it dropped down to 64 very quick (things a beast) View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1443719036.120947.jpg
Also that's whiskey in the airlock.
Thanks guys!

Sounds fine. Definitely didn't kill th eyeast at those temps.

1 day lag time. No worries. I bet it will take off in the next 24 hours.

There was a recent thread where another Notty user's yeast did not take of for a looong time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=545132

Hopefully there is not a bad run of Notty out there.

I doubt it. I think all will be well

Like Gavin said, give it more time, it can take several days for fermentation to kick in sometimes.
Also, don't rely on airlock activity as a sign of fermentation, you have a lot going on with that bucket, any air leak will lesson what exits through the airlock.

Have you had Notty take off faster than under 24hrs in the past? I think that has only happened for me once or twice and it is my standard house strain. Right about 24 hrs things start to go.

I'll chime in like the above members - I've had Nottingham take 48 hours to show visible signs of fermentation in a cider. Also, just because you can't see anything happening doesn't mean the yeast aren't busy, gathering strength and numbers for the battle ahead.

notty states rehydrate temps of 86F - 95F. So, you haven't killed anything. As Gavin linked I've had recent problems with Notty (and some others have reported the same) taking >48 hours to start.

So you have two options - pitch something else, or wait for it to start.

I too am in the middle of trying to get Notty to start in fresh pressed cider, well into the second day. Ec1118 in another fermenter is going like stink.
It's usually much faster when I rehydrate it (12-24 hours)
Edit at 9pm It's still not doing much. I don't know the date code of the yeast I pitched, but the best-by-date on a pack I bought at the same time is 08/2016.

Well that makes me feel a little better. There is foam at the top but still no airlock activity. And hopefully there isn't a leak because I don't know where it would be....
I'll give it another day and repitch with some yeast nutrient.
Thanks!

Foam on top, trub on bottom?

You are fermenting, if so.

CaptainCoJo said:

Hey guys, I'm sure this has been asked before but I figured I'd rely on the experts.
I got this fancy dancy brew bucket and FTSs on eBay for a sweet deal and I'm trying cider for the first time. It's a Graff and everything is exactly the same except I used some WhiteHouse and Musselmans cider from walmart.
I pitched last night and I don't even have a hint of fermentation. My worry is that I accidentally pitched it in too hot. The wort was about 85 ish when I pitched my hydrated yeast that I whipped up. Did I kill it or is there something else I'm missing. It didn't stay 85 long as it dropped down to 64 very quick (things a beast) View attachment 306826
Also that's whiskey in the airlock.
Thanks guys!

Click to expand...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=43635
Regards, GF.

gratus fermentatio said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=43635

Regards, GF.

Click to expand...

What people should really take to heart is the SECOND post in that thread.

Well, after pitching the Notty the morning of the 29th and still nothing, we have declared it a dead parrot. Pinin' for thr fjords. Tossed in some Pasteur red. We'll see how this goes. Maybe we should be complaining to the company? I haven't been doing this for long, but this is the first time a fermentation failed to start for me.

Yeah it's definitely fermenting. Still no airlock activity which I guess means a leak somewhere...
Anyways. Are these weird brown things around the edges anything to worry about?
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1443811179.565596.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1443811194.168270.jpg

motobrewer said:

What people should really take to heart is the SECOND post in that thread.

Click to expand...

The first one is just as important. It even says "It is preferable to have a brew start fermenting as soon as possible" right there. Just that it isn't always going to happen.

As you found out.

slym2none said:

The first one is just as important.

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No, it isn't. In my opinion that post should be deleted as it's wildly misleading to new brewers.

Exponential growth (of beer) SHOULD begin within 24 hours of pitching. If not, something is wrong.

Looks like you see what you want, and don't what you don't.

I'm out. You have a buttercup day.

slym2none said:

The first one is just as important. It even says "It is preferable to have a brew start fermenting as soon as possible" right there. Just that it isn't always going to happen.

As you found out.

Click to expand...

slym2none said:

Looks like you see what you want, and don't what you don't.

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Again, I disagree. The notion that "It's preferable to have exponential growth happen quickly but it's not always going to happen" is, in my research and experience, false. It's just a bad statement to make. It's like saying "you might make good beer but sometimes you wont'".

Long lag times mean something is wrong and your process, ingredients, and/or supplier should be analyzed.

And I'm not quite sure "what I found out". I didn't find out anything except that I currently suspect recent batches of notty to have some issues.

gratus fermentatio said:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=43635
Regards, GF.

Click to expand...

As stickys go this one is not great IMO. Looks like the OP decided his opinion was sticky worthy and made a sticky.

motobrewer said:

What people should really take to heart is the SECOND post in that thread.

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Agreed 100%

CaptainCoJo said:

Yeah it's definitely fermenting. Still no airlock activity which I guess means a leak somewhere...
Anyways. Are these weird brown things around the edges anything to worry about?
View attachment 307003View attachment 307004

Click to expand...

These images suggest that fermentation activity had already peaked and since subsided. Look at the high-tide mark on your fermentor where the krausen had reached.

From my perspective this calls into question the lid's seal or lack thereof rather than Notty's viability.

Gavin C said:

As stickys go this one is not great IMO. Looks like the OP decided his opinion was sticky worthy and made a sticky.







Agreed 100%







These images suggest that fermentation activity had already peaked and since subsided. Look at the high-tide mark on your fermentor where the krausen had reached.



From my perspective this calls into question the lid's seal or lack thereof rather than Notty's viability.

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Great.... Well will it be okay or should I try to fix the leak now?
Wish it was easy to see where the leak is coming from though...

CaptainCoJo said:

Great.... Well will it be okay or should I try to fix the leak now?
Wish it was easy to see where the leak is coming from though...

Click to expand...

It will be OK.

If you want to find a leak it could be tricky. Spray a little star-san on the lid-fermentor interface and see if you get any bubbling. probably won't work to show it. I test my newly filled kegs this way. Probably not applicable here.

I'd pop the lid off, put some keg lube on it (or any other food-grade non-oil based lubricant you have on the gasket, chuck it in some star-san for a minute or so and seal the sucker back up.

Just removing and wetting the gasket in stars and reseating it may be all that's needed to seal it. You could try that first.

For those of you critiquing the sticky, you are perhaps missing an important point. For experienced brewers, we know that long lag times are not ideal. But HBT has a very diverse membership and over the years we get posts from new brewers extremely concerned that their airlocks aren't bubbling after 2 hours, 2 days, whatever. They want to know - should I throw out the batch, should I pitch more yeast? In most of those cases, tossing the batch would be premature and repitching just introduces another variable and opportunity for something to go wrong. The best advice to them, at that moment, is to show patience.

Orfy is clear that quick activity is best. Also, long lag time does not automatically lead to bad or inferior beer. About five years ago, I had a beer that didn't take show visible signs of fermentation for 48 hours (not coincidentally, it was Nottingham) and it won a silver medal at a 600 entry competition.

CaptainCoJo said:

Great.... Well will it be okay or should I try to fix the leak now?
Wish it was easy to see where the leak is coming from though...

Click to expand...

The leak has absolutely nothing to do with how your beer is fermenting. Only on whether your airlock is bubbling. You definitely don't want to fix it now, while your beer is in the fermenter. And you don't need to fix it at all.

Leaks happen prettty regularly with buckets. If that concerns you, you might consider moving to either plastic or glass carboys, where there is no lid and thus no leaks. Plus, you can see inside and watch the fermentation!

motobrewer said:

I currently suspect recent batches of notty to have some issues.

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+1 And this is not the first time Danstar has had issues with Nottingham. A few years ago, they had the same issue and it turned out that they announced that an entire batch or batches were not right, if memory serves. That's about the time they went to the vacuumed packages for all their yeast.

I just used Danstar's Windsor in a Sweet Stout and am holding my breath.

Pappers_ said:

The leak has absolutely nothing to do with how your beer is fermenting. Only on whether your airlock is bubbling. You definitely don't want to fix it now, while your beer is in the fermenter. And you don't need to fix it at all.

Leaks happen prettty regularly with buckets. If that concerns you, you might consider moving to either plastic or glass carboys, where there is no lid and thus no leaks. Plus, you can see inside and watch the fermentation!

Click to expand...

Agreed. It's certainly not important to find and seal the leak at this stage but it is a stainless steel bucket with a high price tag. I don't think transitioning to plastic or glass is in the OP's plans. Later in the fermentation when production of CO2 and positive CO2 partial pressure inside the fermenter subsides, a leak could become a problem. Plenty of pellicle photos in the infection thread in buckets with plenty of head space. (Granted these are often in ill-advised secondaries but the benefit of a seal in this instance remains)

A 5 minute task will likely rectify the problem with little to no risk to the beer during this stage of the fermentation.

Fix or no fix. Without an unneeded prolonged time in the bucket the beer is gonna be fine. Not my intent to add a doom and gloom post. Sorry if it came across as such. Just figured a quick fix would be easy.



On the sticky. I see your point but I feel the linked short sticky post lacks the clarity, depth and detail that many stickies have.

Clearly mine is a minority view if the sticky's readership is anything to go by. Probably not appropriate for me to question the decision of a knowledgeable brewer/moderator like @orfy with regard to what's sticky worthy. No disrespect was intended, although in hindsight it's hard to interpret my prior critique thusly.

I'm sorry for any offense caused.

Yall sound like such gentlemen lol. Anyways. I sprayed star San on it and it looks like it was the stopper. Replaced it and all is well. Looks like my pricy investment will live another day.
Learned a lot from this thread guys so thanks and now I'll back off and maybe grab some popcorn if more of a debate is to continue lol
Cheers!

CaptainCoJo said:

Yall sound like such gentlemen lol. Anyways. I sprayed star San on it and it looks like it was the stopper. Replaced it and all is well. Looks like my pricy investment will live another day.
Learned a lot from this thread guys so thanks and now I'll back off and maybe grab some popcorn if more of a debate is to continue lol
Cheers!

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Glad to hear you got this minor wrinkle ironed out of your very nice set-up.

I'm 46 hrs in to an American Stout and Notty is just starting to do its thing. Huge lag compared to my usual US-05 or M44 (always going within 12-24 hrs). I did pitch low at 16°C and ramped to 18 over 36 hrs.
I've been RDWHAHBing continuously for almost two days now.

Pappers_ said:

For those of you critiquing the sticky, you are perhaps missing an important point. For experienced brewers, we know that long lag times are not ideal. But HBT has a very diverse membership and over the years we get posts from new brewers extremely concerned that their airlocks aren't bubbling after 2 hours, 2 days, whatever.

Click to expand...

sure, i certainly get that. But now that orfy posted what I consider a somewhat random figure in "72 hours" it's become canon that gets parroted by new brewers.

I understand orfy's intent and I didn't mean disrespect (his mild is the best recipe on this forum, hands down), but why 72 hours? why not say 2 weeks? everything will ferment eventually (either with the pitched yeast or...without).

Like I've said many times in the past few days - if lag time exceeds 24 hours, you should do some investigation of your process.

motobrewer said:

Like I've said many times in the past few days - if lag time exceeds 24 hours, you should do some investigation of your process.

Click to expand...

100% agreed!

Pappers_ said:

I just used Danstar's Windsor in a Sweet Stout and am holding my breath.

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No need to worry. Pitched on Thursday and by this morning (Saturday) the krausen had already risen and mostly fallen. I apologize to Danstar for doubting them . . .

sablesurfer said:

Have you had Notty take off faster than under 24hrs in the past? I think that has only happened for me once or twice and it is my standard house strain. Right about 24 hrs things start to go.

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Did you just toss it in or make a starter? I always add my dry yeast to 1/4-1/3 gal. juice, no nutrients, no added sugar. Then I shake it every 4-8 hours for 24 hours. After 24 hours it's usually active and I then add it to my carboy. It takes off then no problem. I know you don't need to make a starter but I always have and it always works for me.

Plus you know right away if the yeast is bad.

MarkKF said:

Did you just toss it in or make a starter?

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I never make a starter from a dry yeast. There is too much to lose if you do it wrong. However, I have started to hydrate all my dry yeasts, and that does make a difference in start time. The idea is if you hydrate them, then they can build up the cell walls before they hit all that high sugar wort.

MarkKF said:

After 24 hours it's usually active and I then add it to my carboy. It takes off then no problem.

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The problem is then you have taken a yeast, run it through it's rehydration, which will kill a few and stress the rest, then now it starts to move into a growth phase and if your wort is not the exact same temp you introduce a temp shock to the yeast.

Too many things for me to worry about. Rehydrate like label says, pitch and see bubbles in about 24hrs. Yay.

This is the cider forum. No wort here. The starter and my car boy are in the same place, same temp, for 24 hours. So no shock. And if the starter doesn't work what have I lost other than a packet of yeast and 1/4-1/3 gal. of juice?

You might think it's not necessary or problem prone but as long as it works for me I'll keep making a yeast starter.

MarkKF said:

This is the cider forum. No wort here.

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Ahem, uh, yeah, right, gotcha.....ooops.