Car buying advice needed

I'm looking into getting a new car...specifically a midsize pick-up truck. I went to the dealership to just browse around today ended talking briefly to a salesman about prices. My problem is, I'm not sure what would be a good deal. I know that I should be able to get it below MSRP but I just don't know how much lower is reasonable. The auto industry is struggling so I figure I should be able to find an amazing deal. My previous car I had brand new I was able to get it for $2k less than MSRP OTD. The Tacoma that I've been looking at has a factory cash back for $2000. Should I bring that up to the salesman before or after I settle an OTD pricing? Any information on determining what an invoice pricing is for a car? Any other advice also would be appreciated. TIA

First off, visit New Cars, Used Cars, Car Reviews and Pricing - Edmunds.com. I've looked at their site for the two new cars I've purchased and it's a good resource.

One thing I've come to think is that you *can* buy cars the old fashioned way (go in to "your" dealer", pick out a car, and write the check out for what they want--perhaps after playing games with the salesperson). However, the internet has made it a lot easier for customers...you can find out what their invoice price is plus incentives, find out from other buyers what they paid (to find the "going rate"), find better deals (I bought my car in WI, then saved hundreds buying an extended warranty from a dealership in RI--same thing, even!), etc.

My strategy was to pick out the car I wanted through research and test drives. Then start pounding the emails, phone calls, and visits to local dealers. I contacted most of the Honda dealers within 150 miles. I ended up grinding on several of them and saved about $3k from the "local" dealer, and only had to travel ~45 miles to get the car.

One thing to consider--whoever you spend the most time with *has* worked the hardest...I felt they deserved the chance to make me the final offer. No matter what your opinion of car salesmen is, they are still out to make a living (and if you've done your research they probably can't screw you over).

Pay cash for whatever you get.

If it were me I would only buy from individuals because you get a much better deal most of the time... Also, they don't have a "cost of goods sold" like car dealers meaning you can often talk them down even more.

I bought a car a couple of months ago on Craigslist that was $2500 below the blue book private sale price because the owner just wanted it out of her driveway. Make sure you get it checked out by a mechanic you trust though.

Consider paying cash as Brutus Brewer said... Auto dealers make all their money in the repair shop and the finance booth; if you stay out of those then you will get out of there with more cash in your pocket.

Just my $0.02, good luck on your search... now is definitely a good time to buy!

Find a forum for the tye of car/ truck you want and research there. They will have a better idea of pricing etc.

I never buy new... depreciation doesnt sit well with me... so I have no idea.

I've seen some pretty insane deals on new trucks the past year. $8000 or more off. Since gas prices are down that might not be the case, but I know the dealers are hurting for sales, and used cars are not.

The Pol said:

I never buy new... depreciation doesnt sit well with me... so I have no idea.

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+1 I'd have to be very well off to think about buying new. Well off enough that if I crash it the first week I might get mad, but the loss in depreciation wouldn't affect my budget.

I'd get me a Dodge Challenger...

Always buy used cars. I've never had to spend over $500 for any of my cars and most of 'em have been great. I've never understood why people rent to buy new cars? They aren't worth didly right when you drive them off the lot and your stuck hoping to pay the car off in twenty years with monthly payments (yes, I'm exagerating a bit, but you get my point). Buy a used one and it'll be YOURS right then and there and if your smart about it, it'll last you a long time.

I spend between 5k and 10k on used vehicles. Smart shopping and knowing a thing or two about the auto you are going to buy will steer you clear of lemons and high maintenance bills. That being said, I can drive a 5k-10k car for 5-10 years... so, for about 1,000 a year I have the convenience of not having to wait for a bus.

So I just spent 10,000 cash on a car that I will drive for 10 years... my neighbor lost about 10,000 in the first 6 months on his new truck (which he will not keep for more than 5 years). Guess who has no debt and a fat retirement fund? Guess who is passing on a legacy of being debt free in all respects to his children and grand children?

I respect anyone that does thier research and due dilligence if they have thier heart set on a NEW vehicle. That sayes a lot about you, even if you are still willing to pony up the $$ to buy new. There are many people that go to a car lot to "look" and come home with another $200-$400/mo. payment. Right now is a sweet time to buy new, Id pay cash, that will get you a better deal, and I would make those suckers work like crazy to sell you anything. Take full advantage of the fact that they are hurting...

Since I own a van I purchased new and a truck that was 22 years old, I can say look at the pluses and minuses. Right now, you should be able to get an extremely good deal on a 2008 Tacoma from a dealer, at lest 15% off MSR). I'd hold off on mentioning the factory rebate until you've negotiated a price without it. A saleperson will want include the rebate to make the OTD price look better, but a factory rebate isn't part of the dealer's costs.

I just bought a new car yesterday. The MSRP was 31,000 after talking them down to 27,000 (not including tax, title, tags) I left and went to my bank to get a pre-approval draft to give to the dealer. I purposely applied for a lower amount, 25,500. I went back to the dealer and told them that was all I could get and that I wanted the car for that amount "out the door". They took it and I ended up paying 22,400 for the car plus tax, title, and tags.
Go to consumerreports.org, on the website there is a place where you can pay 14$ dollars for a report on what ever vehicle you intend to buy. It will list the max amount the dealer pays for the car and any incentives they would recieve from the manufacturer. Its a great place to get a starting bid from and well worth the 14$ Good luck to you.

Edit: aliu630- I see that your in Irvine, it's a little bit of a drive but the Mossy dealerships down here in San Diego is where I ended up going. After talking to sales people at many other SoCal dealerships I'd have to say the people at Mossy were the best.

Great info guys. I'm debating between new/used right now. I figured since the '05-'08 Tacomas are basically the same w/ minor changes...I am leaning more towards a used one. The only reason why I would want a new one is just because no one else has driven it yet, so I know it isn't messed up. I would like to purchase a house in the next couple of years so I figured the less I pay for a car now, I can put towards a downpayment on a house later DECISIONS DECISIONS!!! I just wanted to do some preliminary research and get an idea on pricing beforehand. I really hate dealing w/ salespeople. Thanks for the help

aliu630 said:

I really hate dealing w/ salespeople.

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Deal with the internet/fleet managers. They'll give you out-the-door price right away with no "What will it take to get you in this truck..."

The problem with Tacoma's (well, it's not really a problem) is that they're such great trucks and sell so well that if you can get a new one for $300 over invoice you're doing good. They (dealerships) just don't need to move them, because they sell themselves. Tacoma resale values are so high as well, that you're almost better off buying new if you can afford it. It's rare to find a good condition used Taco with low miles.

I bought an '08 in November of 2007; got it for $300 over invoice through the fleet manager (something like 2-3K under MSRP) and I'm totally happy with the truck! Except there's no lip on the top side of the door so snow falls in the seat when I open the door. Seriously, that's my only complaint and easily rectified if I'm not lazy and sweep the snow off the door frame. Also, Toyota financing gave me a better deal than my credit union which I've been a member of for 25 yrs.

But, I'm not sure what's changed in the last year - the economy (esp. vehicles) has completely changed)

Is it possible to get it 300 over invoice and then get the $2000 rebate? Or then there's no point to the rebate?

aliu630 said:

Is it possible to get it 300 over invoice and then get the $2000 rebate? Or then there's no point to the rebate?

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The price I got was 300 over invoice - even though they were advertising (at the time) 1500 rebate.

So, the rebate dropped it down to $300 over invoice.

My advice with Toyota - find a fleet manager and tell him to show you what invoice is and offer invoice price and see what happens...

The Pol said:

I spend between 5k and 10k on used vehicles. Smart shopping and knowing a thing or two about the auto you are going to buy will steer you clear of lemons and high maintenance bills. That being said, I can drive a 5k-10k car for 5-10 years... so, for about 1,000 a year I have the convenience of not having to wait for a bus.

So I just spent 10,000 cash on a car that I will drive for 10 years... my neighbor lost about 10,000 in the first 6 months on his new truck (which he will not keep for more than 5 years). Guess who has no debt and a fat retirement fund? Guess who is passing on a legacy of being debt free in all respects to his children and grand children?

I respect anyone that does thier research and due dilligence if they have thier heart set on a NEW vehicle. That sayes a lot about you, even if you are still willing to pony up the $$ to buy new. There are many people that go to a car lot to "look" and come home with another $200-$400/mo. payment. Right now is a sweet time to buy new, Id pay cash, that will get you a better deal, and I would make those suckers work like crazy to sell you anything. Take full advantage of the fact that they are hurting...

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You live in Indianapolis, IN.

/thread

AZ_IPA said:

The price I got was 300 over invoice - even though they were advertising (at the time) 1500 rebate.

So, the rebate dropped it down to $300 over invoice.

My advice with Toyota - find a fleet manager and tell him to show you what invoice is and offer invoice price and see what happens...

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That's what I don't really get I guess. It seems like the rebate is almost like a scam. They say you can get $2000 off, but from what? Thanks for the tip. I think I will deal w/ the fleet manager if I decide to go new. My cousin did this w/ his car and ended up getting $300 over invoice for his car too. Thanks for the advice.

The Pol said:

I spend between 5k and 10k on used vehicles. Smart shopping and knowing a thing or two about the auto you are going to buy will steer you clear of lemons and high maintenance bills. That being said, I can drive a 5k-10k car for 5-10 years... so, for about 1,000 a year I have the convenience of not having to wait for a bus.

So I just spent 10,000 cash on a car that I will drive for 10 years... my neighbor lost about 10,000 in the first 6 months on his new truck (which he will not keep for more than 5 years). Guess who has no debt and a fat retirement fund? Guess who is passing on a legacy of being debt free in all respects to his children and grand children?

I respect anyone that does thier research and due dilligence if they have thier heart set on a NEW vehicle. That sayes a lot about you, even if you are still willing to pony up the $$ to buy new. There are many people that go to a car lot to "look" and come home with another $200-$400/mo. payment. Right now is a sweet time to buy new, Id pay cash, that will get you a better deal, and I would make those suckers work like crazy to sell you anything. Take full advantage of the fact that they are hurting...

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My main concern is purchasing a house in a few years. So I figured getting a new Tacoma is around $20k and a used one will be about $10k if I am lucky. So saving $10k is definitely a big bonus towards saving up for a house. Hmmmm... Leaning more towards a used '05-'07 even more now... THANKS!

This is not advice on buying whatsoever, but if you go the new car route, make the salesman WORK for it. Both times I bought a new car, they would do just about anything to get my sale. They let me borrow the car for several days, bought me lunch several times, picked me up when I needed a ride.

aliu630 said:

My main concern is purchasing a house in a few years. So I figured getting a new Tacoma is around $20k and a used one will be about $10k if I am lucky. So saving $10k is definitely a big bonus towards saving up for a house. Hmmmm... Leaning more towards a used '05-'07 even more now... THANKS!

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Glad I could make a good point. I would definately recommend buying used if you are looking at purchasing/paying off a house in the future.

I would buy a NEW vehicle if I could afford to throw $10k in my fireplace and burn it. Thus far, I cannot afford to do that either!

skier! said:

You live in Indianapolis, IN.

/thread

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Yes.... I am not getting the point?

The Pol said:

I spend between 5k and 10k on used vehicles. Smart shopping and knowing a thing or two about the auto you are going to buy will steer you clear of lemons and high maintenance bills. That being said, I can drive a 5k-10k car for 5-10 years... so, for about 1,000 a year I have the convenience of not having to wait for a bus.

So I just spent 10,000 cash on a car that I will drive for 10 years... my neighbor lost about 10,000 in the first 6 months on his new truck (which he will not keep for more than 5 years). Guess who has no debt and a fat retirement fund? Guess who is passing on a legacy of being debt free in all respects to his children and grand children?

Click to expand...

+1

SWMBO and I bouught our last new car in 1988. Since then everything has been used. Some better, some worse but all of them served well for several years and 100k+ additional miles. I have to laugh at SWMBO with one van she swore it had been in an accident, as the side door didn't close flush and a few other things. Her comments would come up every time something needed fixed. We finally put that one to rest with 150k of our miles over three years.

As far as passing on the legacy. My 20 yr old son has bought three used cars. 1st was a $1500 klunker, 2nd one ($2500) he rolled swerving to miss a deer. This one he paid 6k cash for 2000 Civic with 40k miles (>5k a year). And he still has a big wad of cash in the bank, and no car payment. His army salary goes much further that way. Talk about being on the debt free track.

+1

It is hard to teach responsibility unless you live responsibly. Congrats on what you taught your son, and kudos to him for ignoring the constant bombardment of avertisers and corporations trying to convince him that he needs everything.

The car I drive was built in 1992, my wife bought it 10 years ago, when she was 17...

She and I have put 100K on it, purchase price was $5k. I drive it now to work, adding a total of 520 miles per year. I will drive it for another 5 years or more... 15 years on a $5k car that looks and runs as if it were 5 years old. That is $333 a year. Some pay that per month for thier cars.

My wifes car, a 2002... we have had for 2 years and will keep for another 10 years (additional 100k miles)... purchase price $7k. That will ammount to $583/year for that car. Granted it has traction control, side curtain airbags, ABS, heated mirrors and all that stuff (the price of luxury!)

Less than $1k a year, for the luxury of not riding a bus! And that is assuming that when we do away with the cars, they are worth $0.

The average rate of depreciation on a $25k vehicle over a 10 year period is $20.5k... so that vehicle just cost you $2k/year. (assuming you pay CASH and are not paying additional finance charges which will run you about $2,500) That is nearly 4x as much as my most expensive car.

The Pol said:

Yes.... I am not getting the point?

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All kidding aside I am just ripping on your football team...

Are you properly maintaining these cars with timing belt replacements and airbag replacements on top of everything else they are going to need?

Both are expensive.

We have a football team?

Who replaces airbags?

Regular maintenance is done, by myself...

Regular maintenance has never been what I would consider expensive... when you consider $20,000 over 10 years is average depreciation on a new car. $20,000 buys A LOT of timing belts. If anyone ever tells me that they are going to buy a new car because they can have mantenance done under warranty because it is expensive... I want to see what the hell they are replacing on that vehicle!

Our 2002 we have never put a dime in besides oil changes.

The 1992 needed one new battery ($60)
Two new CV joints ($300)
New front brakes ($30)
Oil changes

Over the course of 10 years, hell, that is like one car payment.

AZ_IPA said:

The price I got was 300 over invoice - even though they were advertising (at the time) 1500 rebate.

So, the rebate dropped it down to $300 over invoice.

My advice with Toyota - find a fleet manager and tell him to show you what invoice is and offer invoice price and see what happens...

Click to expand...

With new cars, depending on the factory to dealer incentives and other promotions going on at the time you can sometimes get the car under invoice price... Dealers are sometimes willing to do this in hopes of making the money back through little extras like rustproofing and scotchguard or through making you finance the vehicle through their system. You can usually get them to not do the rustproofing or scotchguarding if you are willing to walk out on the deal.

My one piece of advice if buying a new car is to get pre-approved for a car loan through a credit union, don't tell the dealership about it and negotiate the deal on the car. Make it very clear to the dealership that the car negotiations and the financing negotiations are completely different entities and that you don't want the two mixed. This way you can negotiate the deal on the car and the dealer will think he can make some money up on the loan negotiations, then when it comes time for loan negotiations you have a benchmark he needs to beat and will probably get a good rate. Getting a good rate is key.

I helped an ex-girlfriend buy a car this way, we pulled a credit report and got loan approval before going in and negotiated a deal very close to invoice on the car, I even kept her from buying the rustproofing and scothguard. We then started to talk about financing, and before we got 3 sentences into the conversation he said "unfortunately you have a low credit score so bla bla bla." We were able to come back with, actually her FICO is X and we have approval for Y amount at Z interest rate? Can you beat that rate?

That day I think the dealership probably made about 700 on a 25k+ car not counting the financing and future repairs. If half of that goes to the acutal dealer, $350 isn't bad for an hour worth of paperwork... so don't feel bad for the dealer or fall for the you are taking food out of my kids moth line.

There is definitely some good advice here. However,as far as getting a better deal by paying cash, that is not usually the case. I have worked with dealerships for years(not in Sales though) and have a lot of friends in the car business. Cash buyers are not going to make the dealership as much money in the long run and so are less apt to get a larger discount up front. Unless of course you don't mention your plans of paying cash until you have negotiated the price that you want. Dealers will take more off the front of he deal if the think they're gonna make more on the back.

The onc time I did finance a car, I never did it through a dealership. My personal bank always had a much better rate, because the dealership was not getting paid as well.