Cheaper to buy or brew?

lostmind said:

hmmm. Well I know beer in the US is cheaper than Canada... Up here it's $12-16 for 6 beer. 6 x 375ml = 2.25L. $12 / 2.25L = $5.33/L.

I'm only on batch #2 of homebrew. But I got nearly 23L out of my batches. That's the equivalent of $122.67 worth of the cheaper store bought beer. I paid ~$35 per batch for ingredients. I'm ahead $87.67 before including gear.

Sure I paid nearly $200 for equipment & bottles, caps, sanitiser, etc. to start. But even including that cost as an expense, I'll be ahead of the game in just 3 brews.

Not that I started it because of that, I started because I was shocked that beer was so easy to make at home. Now I am even more shocked because it actually tastes damned good. I love to cook, I love to experiment and I needed a new hobby... fit the bill in every way imaginable.

Oh and I like beer

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Well yeah I suppose up aboot in Canada, it would be much cheaper to brew than to buy. Thats why CraigTube does it :rockin:

one of the great things about brewing is the starvation of the mechanism called taxation.

Style for style, way cheaper, especially buying in bulk. Say a Barleywine is $10 for a 4-pack. It cost about $40 to make a hopped up BW. That's 16 beers to about 48.

If I reuse yeast my Kentucky Common is about $5 for 5gal, at ~5%abv, maybe a little less depending on attenuation. 6-row is cheap, and so is corn (not from the LHBS), which is about $6 for a 50lb sack here. Counting propane, water, and CO2 or sugar, it is probably about $10 for 5gal. I use a cheap, simple, effective AG setup, and have been for over a year since I started. I brew a lot. I've payed for my setup and then some. Good beer cheap.

Also, I don't understand the whole "time cost". I work during the week and have weekends off currently, which I sit around drinking and brewing, which is mostly waiting around.

I think is also depends on if you are into the hobby for brewing beer or for building equipment...

for me its cheaper. my equipment is modest, I'm about $400 dollars in. I'm not sure I'll ever upgrade because I can't keep my current set-up maxed out cuz i can't drink as fast as i can brew. A six pack of my fave beer costs $11. i brewed a 5 gallon clone of it for $16. I don't factor time into it because I enjoy it and it is saving me money.

If I factored in time in cooking(vs my hourly wage) I should eat out every meal. But I don't. Mainly because I am not calling off work to cook. and for me cooking is more of a chore.

There are a couple of long fascinating threads on cloning Sam Adams Utopia, which is something like $250 for a 22 oz bottle if I recall correctly. So look up the recipe and brew yourself a batch. It's a ten gallon batch so you might need some new equipment, but that's ok. Maybe it will take you two or three tries to get it right. But when you're done you'll have about $14,000 worth of beer. That should get most of you past break even, I would think.

have fun,

Jim

It costs me around $7.00 a 24 to brew. I don't factor in electricity. When a case of bland, boring and cheap lager is close to $40.00 in Canada, it doesn't take long for the savings to add up. Craft beer is getting costly too, some in the mid $40's for a case. Nothing better than sitting down with a nice and hoppy American IPA which is still rare to buy around here.

Conehead said:

It costs me around $7.00 a 24 to brew. I don't factor in electricity.

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So the cost is actually more that $7.00 a 24. Add the price of water, the cost of fuel for the boil, the usage of the space in your dwelling for fermenting and storage, the cost of your time and you'll find that price is exponentially more.

I don't try to justify that brewing beer is cheaper than buying beer because if you actually take into account for all the expendables and the process it's going to be very hard to brew cheaper than the big boys do it.

I do it because I like to. I need no other reason.

I am on a well, I brew electric and I am retired. I see what you are saying though. But with the very high cost of beer in Ontario, I still say it is much cheaper to make your own.

In theory, it could be cheaper. And if you want to drink hard to find styles that will cost 8+ dollars a bottle, then yes, it will be cheaper for that style. For example, I'm going to try brewing a flanders red soon. If it turns out (I'll get back to you next summer) then it will be a lot cheaper than trying to buy bottles of the stuff.

If you brew AG, and build your equipment, factoring in used, cheap parts, you can brew for much less than you can buy, depending on the beer you are brewing.

If you are not scrounging for your parts, then the cost to brew goes way up.

But, yes, if you use a basic kit, and buy bulk, you can save tons. Lots of people here don't brew with the basic kit though.

Reminds me of the people that tell me "just buy the damn 30 pack of busch."

If you have to ask you simply do not understand the hobby. Compare the question to the hobby of fishing . You can catch a fish with a worm dug out of the ground placed on a hook attached to a string on a tree branch. You can also buy a more expensive rod and reel and stand on the shore or fish from a bridge or a pier. Or, you can buy a boat, trailer and a vehicle to haul everything to the lake or river and go fishing. With the exception of using the tree branch you can probably buy a fish at your local supermarket cheaper than you can catch one. However if you enjoy fishing you would rather catch one than buy one. The same for home brewers. You would rather make one the buy one. Why else would anyone spend between $50 and several thousand dollars on brewing equipment and then have to wait for weeks on end after you brew before you can even drink the beer? It will always be cheaper and easier to buy a beer than to brew one. But when you give a fiend a beer you bought there is no pride in saying "I bought that". However give a friend a beer you brewed and watch the expression when you say " I brewed this".

Yup. I agree.

Good answer.

The point of making your own is so you can have fresh beer, which is
better than anything, made according to your own tastes. Even if
a brewery makes a beer exactly the way you like it, you still have to
be standing outside their fermenter when they put it into kegs to get
the fresh stuff. So cost isn't a consideration for me, but I don't
make huge gravity beers or try to have the shiniest equipment on
the block.

A lot of people go overboard with the equipment, but equipment
doesn't make the beer, the brewer makes the beer.

Ray

It can definitely be cheaper... but for most of us treating it as a hobby, that is not the case.

Like others have posted, since starting to brew my own beer, when it comes time to buy something at the store I am becoming so much more picky. I used to be a strictly natty lite drinker (graduated from college a year ago). Now I will still "treat" myself to a natty, but I want to try different beers (want to taste one from every BJCP category) so I can get a better Idea of what I want to brew. In my mind, I have now greatly increased my beer costs since I rarely buy natty, and spring for a microbrew at 2.5 x the cost. Also I live about 3 minutes away from a Total Wine & More which has an amazing selection!

I have probably dropped close to $550 on equipment, but I am pretty close to be setup for 10 Gallon all grain batches (just need another fermentation vessel). I dont plan to purchase much more equipment for a while, other than some carboys, kegs, freezer...oh wait there I go spending more again haha

When you put it in perspective, it is still one of my cheaper hobbies when you consider the time I spend vs. the cost, not to mention the results are consumed!

The cheapest I can buy beer here is 26kr a leter, and thats crap beer keep in mind. About 3.80USD.

I can brew a good beer for 13kr a leter and if I skip out on DME and use more dextrose I can get that number even lower.

So to answer, for me it started as an idea to get beer cheaper, now its a hobby and as it turns out, saves me 50% on my beer bill.

Norway, expensive booze.

----edit----

oceanselv, what a great answer. I need to print that on the back of my lables.

Matt and I were considering this the other day actually. We haven't really cared about costs since the beginning and treat it like a hobby, but we figured out the costs anyway.

We have dropped about $5000 on equipment. (2 keezers, brew stand, 10gal AG, probably 30ish kegs, yeast farm, much more)

We can brew 10gal for about $30-40 for a standard grav, mid hopped beer. Comparable to that in the store would be about $15/12pack or about $120/10gal.

At a savings of $80/batch, it would take 63 batches to pay for itself, or a little more than 2 years for us. I think we have about 20 or so down, so only 43 to go!

That is, of course, unless we buy more equipment between now and then.

oceanselv said:

Fish analogy...

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At least we don't have to catch and release our brew.

My whole set-up is probably worth $1500, but I'll use $2000 as the example.

For an example beer, I'm going with Bell's 2-Hearted because both my wife and I love it.

I can brew 2.5 cases of Bell's 2-hearted for around $25 (using [email protected] - centennial for $0.85/oz - and bulk grain sacks - about $1/lb). If I were to buy 2.5 cases at the grocery store, it would cost me over $100.

So, each batch of 2-hearted that I make saves me at least $75 vs buying it at the grocery store.

$2000 worth of equipment would be "paid for" after 27 batches of 2-hearted ale. I brew every other week, so it takes barely over a year to break even on $2000 worth of equipment.

Hell... now that I wrote that out, I think I should spent more on equipment!

Walker said:

Hell... now that I wrote that out, I think I should spent more on equipment!

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That was our conclusion too. It came out a lot better than I expected.

I believe in the next decade we will see most states and the federal government increase alcohol taxes by large amounts which will greatly increase the economy of home brewing. So buy good equipment now and it will pay for itself in the long run, not to mention the higher quality, ultra freshness, and fun factor.

Kudos to ya'll with mondo $$$ systems, but my ghetto AG system cost me less than $150 and I consistently win awards in big competition and I have no plans to upgrade. Homebrewing can be as expensive or inexpensive as one wants, though I think it is important to remind people (especially those starting out) that you don't need a $200+ SS brew pot or a Brutus 10 to make good beer. The quality of one's product IS NOT dependent on cost!

The way I see it, it's a hobby. I'm out to brew the best I can and within my budget I'm willing to do whatever I can to make my beer better and easier. Claiming time is worth something is pretty negligible...you're going to be doing something with your free time, doesn't matter what it is.

It's far cheaper to brew than buy. The actual cost per batch for me, about $25 per 5 gallons, is much cheaper than buying 2 cases (anywhere from $8-$11 a six pack). And for the most part, if a person brews consistently for a few years, the equipment pays for itself in the savings of beer. Most of us are going to be drinking beer regardless of brewing or not. So in effect this saves money.

I very much agree with anyone that thinks if brewing beer to save money is your goal then you are in it for the wrong reason. As with any hobby, enjoyment and fun are what it is about.

In ingredients, once you have your equipment , it's cheaper. But time is where you probably break even. Even an experienced brewer will waste 4-10 hours for a typical brew day.

bierhaus15 said:

Kudos to ya'll with mondo $$$ systems, but my ghetto AG system cost me less than $150 and I consistently win awards in big competition and I have no plans to upgrade. Homebrewing can be as expensive or inexpensive as one wants, though I think it is important to remind people (especially those starting out) that you don't need a $200+ SS brew pot or a Brutus 10 to make good beer. The quality of one's product IS NOT dependent on cost!

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I've noticed this with most hobbies. You get all kinds of people with different takes on the hobby, but no single person is right. There's the DIY person, the gadget person, the minimalist, the amateur professional, the scientist, the neat freak, the grungy hillbilly, the college kid, the stoner, the farmer, the historian, etc...each person should find their own path. I know people with expensive cars that look the same as a cheaper car of a different brand. So to me there is nothing wrong with a person making or buying something whatever they choose.

TheMan said:

I very much agree with anyone that thinks if brewing beer to save money is your goal then you are in it for the wrong reason. As with any hobby, enjoyment and fun are what it is about.

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I don't agree with this line of thinking.

Do you mow your own grass or change the oil in your car yourself? Do you do these things because you enjoy them, or because it saves you money?

I *hate* mowing the lawn. Every minute of it, but I spend hours and hours each month doing it.

You brew because you enjoy it. It's enjoyment for you. Joe Sixpack brews because it saves him money. It's a chore for him.

He's not wrong. You're not wrong. You're both homebrewers with different goals.

definetely. the savings were acctractive to me and helped get me over the intial cost. now that i am in my goals have certainly shifted toward crafting great beers for me and my friends, but to say money was not/is not a consideration is wrong.

I figured the costs out and it costs me an average of about 48 cents a bottle to brew (including materials, cleaning, propane, bottle caps, and sales tax, but ignoring the cost of recycled bottles and equipment). This is under half the cost of a sixer in the stores (not including the tax. Most of my equipment is ancient, and therefore have paid for itself, but I have started to make some craigslist purchases and other upgrades. My grain mill alone (bought new this January) has almost paid for itself in my increased efficiency and bulk purchasing over the HBS milled grains.

With purchases of used equipment and some self fabricating, my equipment costs are a almost a wash....I can sell many of them again for about what I purchased them for (and self fabricated items maybe more than I purchased for).

Either way, the real benefit is being able to dial in a beer recipe to my exact tastes (or those of my friends). I can't buy the beer I make/like.

If I compare my brewing costs to bar/brewpub costs, I am brewing for 10% retail....so in total, if I stay away from the liquor store and bar/brewery/pub (which isn't always possible, but I don't go out as much when I have a substantial stash of homebrew), I am saving dollars per beer. Much cheaper even including some expensive equipment.

Walker said:

I don't agree with this line of thinking.

Do you mow your own grass or change the oil in your car yourself? Do you do these things because you enjoy them, or because it saves you money?

I *hate* mowing the lawn. Every minute of it, but I spend hours and hours each month doing it.

You brew because you enjoy it. It's enjoyment for you. Joe Sixpack brews because it saves him money. It's a chore for him.

He's not wrong. You're not wrong. You're both homebrewers with different goals.

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I don't look forward to mowing the lawn but I dream about brewing. To me it's something rewarding to do after all of the chores are done about the house and I have free time between all the necessities. Just like people fish for enjoyment or cook for enjoyment. That's just me though.

The issues I have whenever this debate comes up is what should/should not be included in cost and my thoughts are that unless you have taken time off work to brew then you should not include your time as a cost, i.e. if you were not brewing you would just be sitting around watching tv or doing something else.
Equipement, I don't think the cost of equipment should be included because, as someone already mentioned, it is an asset. Yes you need to buy it to brew but if you ever give up you most likely would be able to sell it for a fair bit of what you paid for, maybe even more if you put some time DIYing it yourself.
But , as also mentioned before, these are just my thoughts, each to their own. This way does make it easier to convice SWMBO to let me continue ammasing equipment, much easier to tell her it's $20/20 litres than $120/20 litres 2 batches in from dropping $200 on a kegerator!

I bought all the equiptment I needed for around $150, some new and some used equiptment. this includes 2 glass carboys, one plastic pail, bottle bucket and all required equiptment needed for brewing.

I buy extract kits at a cost of 16-19 bucks along with 1KG of LME for around 6 bucks. All in all total cost is around 25-28 bucks per brew and brews yield around 60 botles

Here in Ontario to get a case of Kieths IPA your looking at around $40 for a case of 24. Rip off but what else can you do. Well, there are cheaper brands but they taste like crap so if your smart you brew yourself and for around 26 bucks you get a batch of beer that would cost you around $100 in the store.

Thats right a cost of about 1/4 the total cost in the store. Pretty nifty if you ask me, in a matter of about 2 batches I have broke even and am saving probably thousands a year!

I know beer in other provinces/states can be cheaper but here in Ontario we get taxed through the ass. Maybe eventually I will upgrade to a grain setup and at that point will not be saving as much but as of now I am pretty impressed with the extract kits and will continue to brew as I am.

Going all-grain will be much cheaper than extract if you buy your grain by the sack. It doesn't take long for the savings to add up in Ontario. I save over $100.00 every time I brew comparing it to store bought.

My husband does all the ordering for our ingredients but seems to me we are always buying stuff. The one thing you have to figure is how strong the beer actually is. A bottle of our typical purchased beer had half the potency that our home brew has. You have to figure we only have to drink half as much so we are saving!

angdeer said:

A bottle of our typical purchased beer had half the potency that our home brew has. You have to figure we only have to drink half as much so we are saving!

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But... *do* you drink half as much, or do you just get twice as drunk?

Lol, so true!

I've been making a bunch of big beers since I started brewing. Hell I have more over 7% abv than under 6% abv. It wasn't totally on purpose either but that's how it played out. If I were to buy a commercial example of some of the IPAs I made I'd be paying at least $40 if not $60 per case. I figure at $25 for the ingredients for two cases I'm doing damn fine. That's a $100 savings on one batch essentially. My latest big beer (20lb grain bill) is damn near 10%abv with peat smoked malt and I just dropped oak cubes for two months of aging. The cost for that beer was about $38 total between ingredients and oak. I don't even want to imagine what a micro would charge for a beer like that. Well actually off the top of my head a wood aged beer near that abv is DFH Palo Santo (can you say tastes like soy sauce), and that's $90 a case in PA. I did a RIS that ended up over 12% and is fantastic. It was extract based so it cost me around $65 to make but again big $$ to buy something like that from a brewery.

I've done a lot of DIY, and got my kettle at a restaurant supply store for $100 with an aluminum clad bottom. My burner was already owned for cooking purposes. I think in a few more batches I'll break even on buying my monster mill too. My MLT is a 52qt coleman extreme I got for $25 sears clearance. I made a CPVC manifold for it and did the cooler kit from bargain fittings. Free bottles reused boxes washing yeast and so forth keep my costs down and I keep saving money. I rarely buy beer anymore from the distributor.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents as a new home brewer. From the start of my obsession with brewing I've put every penny spent into a spreadsheet, including sales tax and shipping. I've also calculated fuel costs (I use a propane burner for my 48qt SS pot). I've even factored in the purchase of ice and bottled water for each batch.

My total hobby damage so far has exceeded $1k. If I exclude equipment the price of 12oz of beer is around $0.98 (my extract kits have averaged around $38). Including equipment each 12oz beer is at $5.26 right now (I've only brewed 4 batches). Every batch of beer that I brew significantly reduces this number down, and will eventually reach a number "closer" to the $0.98.

I also purchase less beer from the store, so if I factor that in per month things look a little better.

Obviously everyone will have different numbers depending on deals and their own setup. This is just what I've recorded so far and I've only been tracking these numbers out of pure interest.

The real reason I brew beer is because I enjoy every aspect of it and I enjoy the taste. I'm not in it to save money, but that seems to be the question I get asked the most. Some can do it 'cheap' and I admire those bargain hunters. I'm not one of them, but in the end our goals are the same.

Beer

Yeah I guess I should have said I'm not in it to save money. I have fun doing it and playing around with new/different recipes. I brought some of my homebrew yesterday to a cookout and one of the guys was asking me about homebrewing. His big question was can I make something close to Chimay because that's all my wife wants to drink now and it's $100 a case. For someone like that it'd save some serious cash over time.

Here in PEI, Canada, I can pay $23.00 for a dozen on average, I can brew for anywhere between 37 cents to 75 cents a bottle. So definitely cheaper if I don't count my kegging equipment I recently acquired.

I have yet to try all grain but plan to this fall, the extra equipment will mostly be dual purpose, a drinking water safe hose, large pot and burner and mash paddle, the mash paddle will be about the only thing I won't use outside of brewing.