I'm interesting in aerating my wort with oxygen but I am unsure which route to go. I know the disposable BernzOmatic tanks are the most popular but I'm concered with the low quality of some of the regulators made for these disposable tanks. Some of the threads I've been reading complain of leaks and other issues with these regulators. I would rather spend a bit more money upfront and not have to get a new $12 disposable oxygen tank every 2 or 3 brew days. As a result, I have been looking into welding oxygen tanks with heavy duty regulators. I'm interested in other peoples setup and how you connect your sintered stones to these welding tanks.
Oxygen Tank for Aeration
- Thread starter dgoldb1
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dgoldb1 said:
I got the smallest 02 tank I could get from the welding supply. I use the 02 regulator, from an oxy/acetylene set-up. I purchased the stainless wand from morebeer, and the stone is integral with the wand. It just slips inside 1/4" tubing. One thing I found is that I couldn't meter the flow low enough with the welding regulator. I got a medical regulator on ebay that has 50 psi in and 0-15 lpm out. From what I've read, one minute at 3 lpm flow rate gives you ~10 ppm dissolved 02.
The main problem you face is that the medical regulator will not fit the welding type oxygen cylinder. You should be able to dial down the welding regulator to a usable pressure. Matter of fact, you should be able to shut it off completely with the diaphragm adjuster. Back it out all the way and the flow should stop, then screw it in just enough to get the desired flow rate. If you cannot do this, then something is wrong with the regulator. The medical regulators regulate the flow volume (ie liters per minute) while the welding regulators regulate the pressure. The aearation wands are nice. I've been using one for years myself.
Reelale, do you know the actual outside diameter of the morebeer wand?
I have been looking at that and wondering if it would fit into a compression fitting so I can mount it inline after my counterflow exchanger.
I have been looking at that and wondering if it would fit into a compression fitting so I can mount it inline after my counterflow exchanger.
I could get a pretty low flow, pressure-wise, but since I couldn't determine the the flow rate in lpm, I bought the medical regulator. Plus I like seeing the ball bearing float in mid-air! I just bought a 3/8 fpt/barb adapter for the regulator and a 3/8" barb adapter for the medical regulator and tied everything together with tubing. Works great.
How did you attach the medical regulator to your welding type oxygen cylinder? I did not think that was possible.
No, and I don't have a caliper here. I do know that it fits snugly inside 3/16" vinyl tubing. I'm thinking a 3/16" compression fitting would work fine. I plan to do the same thing eventually. I bet morebeer would have the exact specs on the their ss tubing.
3/8" fpt/barb on the "out" from the welding regulator to a 3/8" fpt/barb "in" on the medical regulator. Connected with thick-walled 1/4" ID clear tubing.
EDIT: Oh, I see the confusion. Sorry. I used the welding regulator AND the medical regulator. There is no way to connect the medical regulator directly to the welding tank.
That explains it. I'm using a welding regulator only. I have two of the smallest oxygen cylinders. I figure I won't need to buy any more oxygen for about ten years or so. Sure beats buying the disposable cylinders.
Yeah, I was lucky. I squirreled away a large 02 bottle years ago. I traded it in for the smallest bottle they had. Only had to pay $14.00 for the gas. I think even the smallest ones will last a long, long time.
Yiks, this seems too complicatedMaybe I'll just go with the disosable tanks.
How much would you say your setup cost total?
$74.00 total. Already had the fittings and the regulator was given to me. The biggest expense was the wand with integral stone. But it is very nice. If you can source a regulator, you can "lease" those small bottles indefinitely, and just pay to get them recharged.
It's not complicated at all. Even I could do it!
dgoldb1
Well-Known Member
ClaudiusB
Well-Known Member
Most likely the leaks come from a damaged or missing plastic seal.
I have been using a welding oxygen tank from the beginning without any problems and the cost is low compared to the red tanks.
The welding tank last me more than two years.
In line O2 injection system, after the wort chiller.
Cheers,
ClaudiusB
It looks like that one attaches directly to a medical 02 tank. You need a Rx to get those....and to get them filled. What you need is an in-line regulator. Kind of looks like those you see in hospital rooms, on the wall over the beds.
Only with a medical type oxygen cylinder and you would need a prescription to have the cylinder refilled. The welding regulators are generally the better way to go.
Most likely the leaks come from a damaged or missing plastic seal.
I've definitely had issues of the O2 leaking out of the regulator directly. In my case, it's no big deal; I can hear the regulator start to vibrate from the leaking O2, if I just move the dial a little bit it stops. I know other people have had more issue with the small regs, though; mine's pretty good at actually REGULATING the amount of gas coming out, but I know some other peoples' are basically on/off. If you can do something better with a medical/industrial setup, I would.
That's nice! Is that the aeration wand from morebeer? And I'm assuming a 1/2" fpt on the other end of that tri-clover reduced to a 3/16" compression fitting? I want to do something similar, but I don't relish cutting the $40.00 wand to do it. And how long do you run the 02 and at what pressure??
dgoldb1
Well-Known Member
This looks perfect: http://cgi.ebay.com/MADA-MEDICAL-OXYGEN-CYLINDER-TANK-REGULATOR-MASK-CASE-/180640943208?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0f0a0c68
Wonder if I could just peel the sticker off, paint it red and take it to a welding shop to get filled?
Wonder if I could just peel the sticker off, paint it red and take it to a welding shop to get filled?
Most of the below is from a Brew Wizard column in BYO.
If you wanted to have 10ppm, in 5 gallons (~20L), that would give you 200mg of O2.
There are 32grams of O2 per mole.
So, 200 mg is equal to .00625 moles (.2gm/32 gm of O2 per mole)
The volume of O2 needed can be derived from the Ideal Gas Law PV=nRT.
At pitching temp, say 68F (291.5 Kelvin), this would give 0.1495 L of O2.
So, 0.1459L of O2 is required to give you 200 mg of O2 for your 10ppm in 5 gallons.
If you are running 3 lpm for 1 minute, you are getting 3 L of O2, which is ~20 times more O2 than needed. A low flow meter set at 0.1L/min for 1.5 min would give you the ~10ppm of O2.
Good information there. I'm not arguing, but that 10 ppm recommendation refers to dissolved oxygen. I'm running at 3 lpm to account for the 02 that is escaping the wort in the form of bubbles. And at pitching temperature, more 02 is escaping than dissolving. I also don't have a flow meter that registers that low,
Yeah, that could all be just theoretical. In Yeast, they said they needed 1L/min flow rate for about a minute to get a measured value of 9.2 ppm.
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dgoldb1 said:
It's not that complicated. Many people just barely open the welding regulator so they don't get too much frothing action. Run it for about one minute, with a 2 micron stone. IMO under-oxygenating is worse than over-oxygenating, if that is even possible.
Wow, I've had mine for at least 1/2 dozen brews and have not ran out. I usually let it run for a solid minute. You are pumping some serious oxygen if you only get 2-3 brews out of a tank.
dgoldb1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it seems like these regulators for the disposible tanks are hit or miss.
Could someone maybe post some links for what I'm looking for in terms of the tank and regulator? I need some hand holding
This is what I have been using with the disposable cans from home depot and have had no problems what so ever....
http://www.homebrewing.org/Oxynator-oxygen-regulator-and-diffusion-kit_p_1057.html
I dont remember 86 for it though....Just do a search on various brewing sites and you will prob find it for less
http://www.homebrewing.org/Oxynator-oxygen-regulator-and-diffusion-kit_p_1057.html
I dont remember 86 for it though....Just do a search on various brewing sites and you will prob find it for less
BrewBeemer
Well-Known Member
No need just buy their .5 micron stone with the male flare at the end of the stone, they were on sale at $14.24 each last fall. This allows one to add any length of SS tubing to fit your needs then just add a nut then flare the tubing.
As far as flow meters Timeter 0-15 LPM are the best value for the buck found on ebay at times in lots of 4 or more. Bottom line app $15 each. Do not waste your time on those small medical regulator / flow meters unless you have a supply of medical O2 bottles requiring medical papers to refill.
You can make a medical regulator / flow meter work by machining an adapter to fit a O2 CGA 540 fitting then use your welding bottle.
Cheaper plus better get one of these;
http://www.alliedhpi.com/images/z10-00-0101.pdf
BTW they have 1/8" NPT fitting inlet an easy connection to a standard welding O2 regulator set to 50 psi required by the flow meter.
You'll pay the lease long enough until you paid for the bottle but still not own it, get a small owner owned bottle, cheaper over time plus you can sell it when your done with it.
Check the past HBT forum Equipment/Sanitation section under "O2 Gauge & Flowmeter" thread dated 5-3-2010.
If you don't want to go with the disposable, this is what I would recommend. Our welding supply is Machine Welding and Gas, hence the orange tank. But Airgas or any welding supply will sell you 02, and lease the tank. They're relatively inexpensive to lease. Get the smallest one you can. I think this is a C size. You can get oxy/acetylene regulators anywhere, just use the 02 one of the pair. Ebay, harbor freight, craigslist. Morebeer.com has the wand. It's under aeration equipment.
Yeah, I was able to trade-in a big bottle and just pay for the 02. As you can see, I was able to connect the the welding regulator to the flowmeter with simple 3/8" barbs. I got the regulator for nothing and it was a simple connection.
Haha. It's not as close as it looks in the picture. It's no closer than the propane tank, which is flammable. It's always shut-off until I pitch the yeast, so no flames when in use.
BrewBeemer
Well-Known Member
Ouch, there is a like new 200 cu/ft O2 on ebay asking $180, cost $300 new. check this price out for only a 80 cu/ft;http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...cm_ite=1632181?ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=1632181
Now you know why I said ouch with downsizing to a smaller bottle for $14.
The welding supply made a quick $200 from a walkin, I bet it was a 3AA bottle.
A 250 cu/ft owner owned bottle in my area runs $307 empty.
I hear you for sure. It was an old bottle, huge, and out of cert. Way too much for what I needed. I guess I could have sold it, but then I would have had to lease a small bottle. I was wondering why there were no questions asked about the origin of the bottle that was stamped with their company name!
BrewBeemer
Well-Known Member
Old is better (the wife likes this phrase), my $30 investment a 150 cu/ft Argon a 1937 Linde bottle sold to Germany with Swastika's restamped to be PC, it's a + plus bottle to this day taking 2015 psi refills.
This older thicker bottle as well my other 215, 250's have Swastika's and pass hydro with plus refills.
This older thicker bottle as well my other 215, 250's have Swastika's and pass hydro with plus refills.
dgoldb1
Well-Known Member
I think this setup may work...maybe...
H/M Medical Oxygen Regulator 0-15 lpm O2 Tank Cyl
20 CF welding cylinder tank bottle OXYGEN
The regulator has a CGA-540 inlet connector and the tank has a CGA-540 valve.
Am I missing something here?
H/M Medical Oxygen Regulator 0-15 lpm O2 Tank Cyl
20 CF welding cylinder tank bottle OXYGEN
The regulator has a CGA-540 inlet connector and the tank has a CGA-540 valve.
Am I missing something here?
Looks to me like that combo will work. Not too bad of a price either, since you are omitting another regulator. I would call the supplier of the medical regulator and see what the calibration PSI/operating PSI is. Mine is 50 PSI, and I know an 02 tank puts out way more than that. It had to be stepped-down.
dgoldb1
Well-Known Member
I'll need to call and verify the max PSI on this regulator. If below 50PSI should I look elsewhere?
Even better I found a regulator from the same manufacturer that does 0-8lpm. There is a 1/8 (.125) lpm flow rate setting on the regulator which would give me the almost exact level of 02 for my wort. 1/8 L per min = 0.125 for 1.5 min would give me the ~10ppm of O2 I need for proper aeration.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks!
Even better I found a regulator from the same manufacturer that does 0-8lpm. There is a 1/8 (.125) lpm flow rate setting on the regulator which would give me the almost exact level of 02 for my wort. 1/8 L per min = 0.125 for 1.5 min would give me the ~10ppm of O2 I need for proper aeration.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks!
Either sounds good. I would just ask the supplier if that regulator is designed to hook straight to the 02 tank you plan to purchase. Just let them know what you are wanting to do. It probably does, with those connectors. I don't know how those work, as mine is like a secondary regulator that requires 50 PSI to work correctly. I'll bet that one will work fine, but it never hurts to find out for sure....it's just an email or phone call.
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